Formula 1 Round 22 Abu Dhabi GP

Mitch Connor · 13-12-2021 04:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315533#Comment_118315533

Exactly that. If proper procedure had been followed the race would have ended unders safety car so Hamilton pitting would have handed Max the title. Merc did not strategise on Masi not following the process in the name of entertainment.

whippet · 13-12-2021 04:16PM

Wolff and Merc have been the masters of strategy for the last few years and it is especially grinding on them when RB make a strategic gamble that pays off.

This type of back and forth between teams and race directors / stewards has been going on for ever - just with the TV coverage and access to the radio it is in the public domain and it adds another layer to the coverage / controversy / excitement / frustration ... and of course the ratings and TV audience

quokula · 13-12-2021 04:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315533#Comment_118315533

This isn’t due to inconsistency in the rules, but a matter of how long it would take to clear the Williams. People seem to be forgetting what the safety car is for - it’s to allow an incident to be cleared, and then it’s supposed to get out of the way as soon as it is safe to let the race continue.

The precedent is that lapped cars are let go.

The precedent is that the safety car comes in when the track is clear.

The precedent is that ending under green flags is vastly preferable to ending behind the safety car if at all possible.

The rule book specifically states that it is up to the race director’s discretion.

The incident was cleared and the race director used his discretion correctly and followed all precedents and did exactly what they should have done. The only issue was the terrible communication, first announcing that they were going to throw precedent out the window and disallow unlapping because of the lobbying from Toto, but fortunately good sense prevailed and they got on with it and allowed for a race, like they would have in this situation in any race regardless of who was involved.

Faugheen · 13-12-2021 04:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315324#Comment_118315324

And?

Masi, as we've learned, is more than capable of telling Toto to piss off.

SeeMoreBut · 13-12-2021 04:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315488#Comment_118315488

Shouldn't be any interpretation of rules. Should be clear what are the scenario's. Nobody here would have thought only cars between 2 cars could unlap themselves.

It is unfair for all other drivers who didn't benefit from it. e.g. Sainz would have to over take 2 cars to have a chance to gain a place. That isn't fair. Purely done for tv.

Just like the spa race. Racing is 2 laps behind a safety car. That was done for money reasons. Masi made a complete mess of it. Buck stops with him. If he didn't know what to do then flag it. Not this making it up as he went along. 0 cars can pass to 5 cars can pass.

Faugheen · 13-12-2021 04:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315608#Comment_118315608

It wasn't a gamble on Red Bull's part though. A gamble would be to bring Max in while he was leading.

Red Bull had the advantage of being able to do the opposite to Mercedes to give themselves the best opportunity they could. Mercedes didn't have that. If they brought Hamilton in it would have been a massive gamble.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Max or Red Bull here, btw, but it was nowhere near a gamble on their part because they had nothing to lose and everything to gain, which they did.

someyoke · 13-12-2021 04:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315186#Comment_118315186

Was following the Betfair exchange and Hamilton was getting layed at 1.05, essentially a bet on verstappen at 20/1. This all changed when latifi crashed of course.

It did look done and dusted but the way season panned out late drama wasn't surprising

walshb · 13-12-2021 04:28PM

Did Max get very slightly ahead Lewis just before they raced to the end? This was part of Merc’s protest, yes?

namloc1980 · 13-12-2021 04:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315661#Comment_118315661

Maybe 10cm. It was dismissed as immaterial.

walshb · 13-12-2021 04:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315668#Comment_118315668

Yes. Thought that. But I’d not seen that before. I know it was crucial for Max to be as close as possible, but wasn’t aware he could get slightly ahead.

Looking at these cars it’s insane how close they get without touching..

Captain_Crash · 13-12-2021 04:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315661#Comment_118315661

He did yes but it was dismissed because it was trivial, he was alongside on the inside of a turn so naturally drifted ahead ever so slightly for less than a second! It happens often enough in SC conditions and on formation laps.

Faugheen · 13-12-2021 04:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315661#Comment_118315661

Doesn't matter. Hamilton was going between the brakes and the gas so was going to happen, but Max gave up position and they crossed the line as they were.

This was Mercedes attempts to get the result overturned. It won't happen so any appeals they have will be for accountability at the higher ups.

walshb · 13-12-2021 04:36PM

It really was a thrilling final 2 hours to the season. Whole race for me was exciting, and the end was just the icing on the cake.

Have to feel sorry the way Lewis lost it, but Max showed Senna like skills and daring and hunger to pull it out the bag

I think he is probably more an instinctive and innate driver than Lewis.

walshb · 13-12-2021 04:38PM

Question; lap 37 or 38 VSC should Merc have brought Lewis in for new hards, in anticipation for a possible late SC? Had Lewis fresher tyres on come lap 57/58, surely the challenge for Max is more difficult?

walshb · 13-12-2021 04:39PM

Remind me: did Max pit for VSC and SC?

13-12-2021 04:40PM

The real issue is the FIA have given the teams too much control into what goes on during the race. It's a pantomime.

Horner and Wolff are more famous than three quarters of the drivers that lined up yesterday. Horner has said he was roaring at Masi throughout and Wolff is a meme. That's no way to officiate things.

You can't hold minutes long negotiations in a sport where everything happens at literally 100mph. There's a million and one incidents that happen during a given race and to have teams whingeing incessantly is intolerable.

It may be good for the cameras and social media engagement but Masi/the race director and stewards need to reassert control over proceedings and not let teams rule the roost.

To casuals, three of the five most famous people in the sport are non-drivers. Four out of six if you include Ginger Spice.

Unsustainable.

FIA need to tighten up some of the rules and then tell the Toto and Horner to piss off and stick to principal-ing their teams.

Faugheen · 13-12-2021 04:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315707#Comment_118315707

They would have given up track position to Max. Just because he would have had fresher hards doesn't guarantee he'd be able to pass Max, who is more than able to make his car as wide as possible.

antodeco · 13-12-2021 04:49PM

To move away from this a bit, its gone a little bit unnoticed what Perez did during the race. He was able to slow Lewis down by 6 seconds in one lap. That is absolutely amazing. You can see that if Perez was further up the field in more races, he would've played a bigger role in perhaps RB getting the constructors too.

This is it · 13-12-2021 04:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315757#Comment_118315757

He did an amazing job slowing Lewis down. On one of the tight corners he probably gained Max about a second he slowed that much, Lewis had to slow right down or crash. He hasn't always been where he should be this season but yesterday he more than played his part.

quokula · 13-12-2021 04:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315757#Comment_118315757

He's a master of making his tyres last and is regularly in the kind of position he was this race - 10+ seconds behind but ahead on track if he runs long after the others pit. The difference in Abu Dhabi was that Red Bull asked him to completely compromise his race to slow Lewis. In other races he'd continue doing his own thing, which would likely have involved maintaining the gap he had ahead of Lewis for longer and probably pitting before Lewis caught up to him.

Red Bull have maybe been naive not using Perez in the way Mercedes used Bottas most of the season, but in the end it worked out. I don't think Sergio is the kind of driver who'd be willing to do that kind of thing race in race out, but he was happy to do it on this most important of occasions.

BrookieD · 13-12-2021 04:56PM

On Perez he had a massive impact on the WDC over the season

Monaco: Overcuts Hamilton to 6th Place, Max wins

Baku: Doesnt alllow Hamilton to pass him all Race, and at the second start up, HAM goes long and ends 16th

France: Due to position makes Hamilton not go into pits, Max catches up, passes HAM and wins race

Silverstone: Took Fastest lap from HAM

Turkey: Perez defends and leaves HAM in 5th, Max gets 2nd

Austin: Makes HAM make a Pit Spot too soon to prevent undercut, Max wins

Brasil: Takes fastest lap from HAM

Abu Dhabi: Holds him up for 10 seconds making HAM skip Pit stops in order to not lose position.

All small in isolation but when you add them uo its a massive impact... expect him to have a nice bonus soon

quokula · 13-12-2021 05:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315675#Comment_118315675

He dropped back after that and was a full car length behind once they actually got to the line and started racing again. I suspect getting alongside Lewis was a mixture of mind games and avoiding the risk of Lewis brake testing him (which Hamilton has form for in the past with Vettel)

Mercedes did protest it and it was thrown out. It's not at all unusual for cars to briefly overtake each other behind the safety car as they speed up and down to warm up their tyres - as long as they're not ahead when they actually start racing again it's never been an issue.

walshb · 13-12-2021 05:04PM

Just on lap 1 when Max made pass on Lewis, bumping him off track. Why did so many feel Max did nothing wrong, and that Lewis should have given the place up? Stewards decided the way I felt they should have. Max’s move, albeit skilled, was too aggressive. He interferes with Lewis.

M three · 13-12-2021 05:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118312836#Comment_118312836

Other than lewis diehards I dont think anyone would bat an eyelid if lewis retired so this strawman about people not getting lewis out of their heads is laughable.

Mercedes have decided to prolong this as sore losers and trying to steal the championship via dubious legal challenges. Why cant they take their beating and celebrate winning the constructors championship and as a team show some sportsmanship and be gracious in defeat.

Imagine being a mercedes mechanic busting a gut all season and instead your team principle is crying and moaning about one driver and throwing equipment around the garage.

Toto - the wolff who cried like a boy😂

McFly85 · 13-12-2021 05:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315830#Comment_118315830

Max broke late but made a legitimate attempt to make the corner and stayed within the track.

Hamilton did not need to cut the entire run off and I’m doing so gave himself a lead of about 1.2 seconds as far as I remember

skipper_G · 13-12-2021 05:11PM

For a change from pages of back and forth about rules and regulations, why not enjoy Checo's defensive masterclass backing Hamilton up 7 seconds in a couple of laps on old soft tyres

https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1470026060226076676?t=c5fEnIfy1g6OMsfQh9Fbzw&s=19

quokula · 13-12-2021 05:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315830#Comment_118315830

Probably because he didn't bump him off track? He made the apex, stayed on track, executed a perfect clean overtake. Lewis decided that instead of just conceding the corner he'd drive off the track, cut the chicane, and steal the lead.