Driving to the UK for Christmas. Take the diesel or the EV?

remoteboy · 04-12-2021 3:22pm #1

First up, the big caveat here is that this is all dependent on COVID restrictions not changing.

I’m taking the car on the ferry a few days before Christmas and driving down to Berkhamsted - it’s about 400km from Holyhead (mostly motorway). Usually do it in the diesel Mondeo but would love to do it in the EV (ID3 58kw) this year.

I’ve downloaded ARBP and it looks doable with one stop (or two if I want to arrive with a bit more charge). I can granny charge where I’m staying (with family) but there’s only one 7k charger nearby. It’s an 8 mile trip to the nearest fast charger according to Zap Map.

So I’m wondering

a) should I just take the diesel (and keep the EV for shorter trips)

b) presuming that I am taking the EV, has anyone done a similar journey and do you have any tips - eg what’s an optimal SOC to arrive at a fast charger with?

Thanks for reading

elperello · 04-12-2021 7:28pm

I don't drive an EV but I often take trips too the UK at this time of year in a diesel.

From my experience of the traffic and possible weather conditions I would say stick with the diesel.

You can fill it up and go door to door in comfort without worrying about tailbacks, diversions, road closures, queues at charger etc.

If it was me I'd probably be itching to give the ID 3 the run but discretion would be the better part of valour and I'd leave it to the better weather and longer days.

Lantus · 04-12-2021 9:27pm

If you are just on your own then maybe. But I'd probably just put 900km of diesel in the tank and be done with it.

bkehoe · 04-12-2021 9:29pm

I've done the reverse a few times now and no issues. As long as you plan your charging stops sensibly then there's no drama.

While I always use Stena, as I don't need the onboard charging, Irish Ferries has free Podpoint chargers on board some of their ferries if you travel with them. Just need to add it as a zero cost option to your ferry booking so that could give you 4 hours of AC charging to ensure you arrive in the UK with a nicely topped up battery if you need it.

Your route conveniently could include a stop at the Gridserve hub at Rugby services (https://www.gridserve.com/2021/04/30/electric-highway-opens-uks-largest-high-power-motorway-charging-site/) for example and I suspect one other charge near Manchester is all you'd need? There's usually 2 or 3 50kW Gridserve chargers at each of the services along a 20-30 mile stretch of the M6 in this area, e.g. Lymm, Knutsford, Sandbach so plenty of backups if you've an issue at one. New 150kW BP chargers at the services near Manchester airport (a 5-10min detour from the M6).

All the Gridserve chargers take contactless payment, check into Instavolt as well as good reliable backups that take contactless.

slave1 · 04-12-2021 11:38pm

EV can be done but I’d only do it (and I’ve done it twice) with a Tesla via Supercharger network. Stick with the diesel mate

04-12-2021 11:51pm

I see Ionity are building a new charger in Stafford. That will make things an an awful lot easier for people.

It makes a trip from Dover to Holyhead in a typical 55 to 60kw EV on the Ionity network with two HPC charges much easier but a location closer to Liverpool would still be preferable.

User1998 · 05-12-2021 3:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058221185/driving-to-the-uk-for-christmas-take-the-diesel-or-the-ev

I’d probably take the EV. Perfect scenario really. You’ll be leaving Holyhead with 100% charge and only have to make one stop which you would probably be making anyway as a rest break. And you have charging at your accommodation.

Orebro · 05-12-2021 5:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118270407#Comment_118270407

Ditto

fricatus · 05-12-2021 7:56pm

No reason not to bring the EV. Download Zap Map and filter for Gridserve and Instavolt, and see how your route is looking. Still takes a little planning, but if you're even a little bit flexible around arrival times, you should be fine.

Check out my recent experience in this thread: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058208072/charging-in-the-uk

Top tips: bring two cards (debit or credit) and let your bank know you're travelling so that they don't get blocked due to unusual activity. Gridserve will reserve £20 every time you charge, so that will tie some money up in your account for a week.

the_amazing_raisin · 05-12-2021 9:32pm

I say go for it, UK charging network is vastly superior to the Irish one

Download Zap Map, look up the chargers en route and ensure you have the right apps downloaded

We charge probably covers a lot of the chargers, albeit at a higher price than the native apps

You should be able to manage with a single fast charge either way. I'm guessing you are staying for a day or two so charging off the granny lead should have you fully charged for the journey home

05-12-2021 10:52pm

No reason not to take the EV. I have driven to Finland twice from Ireland first on Leaf40 via UK and this summer on Model 3. I also went to Cornwall on a 24 kWh Leaf and that was painless also. The UK networks have only gotten better since our last UK trip which was back in 2018.

06-12-2021 12:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118270451#Comment_118270451

quoting myself as I can't edit anymore.

planning permission for Stafford. Reportedly 12 HPC Ionity chargers to be installed and I'll assume they'll all be 300/350kW in power. If you are heading to the South East of England this will be a waypoint for you from Holyhead.

https://www12.staffordbc.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=Q629ZKPSIIB00

remoteboy · 08-12-2021 12:18am

Thanks everyone for the replies. I reckon I’m going to go for it. Have booked the ferry and reserved the pod points for the journey over and back.

Have been using ARBP to figure out journey and it recommends two short stops (Wrexham and Rugby). 5hr journey time which is pretty much par for the course. Getting excited now 😂

remoteboy · 08-12-2021 12:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118273578#Comment_118273578

Thanks for the link to the thread. Really helpful.

bkehoe · 08-12-2021 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287936#Comment_118287936

Good on you, I was rather surprised by the amount of people saying to bring the diesel!

Wrexham seems a bit out of the way though isn't it - I'm guessing it's suggesting the A41 which is around 15 miles shorter but with any traffic will probably take longer. Also quite a lack of 50kW+ chargers along the route should you have any issues with the ABRP suggested charger. If you do the usual M56/M6 route, you've 3 Gridserve 50kW chargers at the M56/M6 junction as well which is just under 100 miles from the ferry followed by many Gridserve 50kW units (or alternative Shell/BP units) at almost every junction as you head south.

Buddy Bubs · 08-12-2021 8:47pm

Morbid curiosity would lead me to try out the EV albeit with a bit of planning needed.

10-10-20 · 08-12-2021 11:28pm

If you plan on sticking a roofbox on it, or worse-still bikes, then prepare for the added losses.

Keep it to 110 if in doubt!

Blue4u · 09-12-2021 10:58am

Drive the diesel......between charge points been broken, bad traffic, potential road crash's blocking motorways etc it would be a nightmare in an electric. You are just putting yourself under undue stress

liamog · 09-12-2021 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118294464#Comment_118294464

Have you tried driving an EV through the UK, it's 100 times better than in Ireland. I will be doing Holyhead => Southend => Sheffield => Holyhead in a Mini SE with with 160km of range. My worst stop will be in North Wales where there are only 2 CCS chargers , though there is a second 2 CCS stop 5km down the road in case that one is busy. I'll also be charging at Rugby with it's 12 350kW CCS points and Braintree which has 20.

remoteboy · 09-12-2021 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292267#Comment_118292267

This is really helpful. I’ll look at amending my route. Cheers.

Blue4u · 09-12-2021 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295508#Comment_118295508

Well Ireland is terrible so 100 times better :-)

Personally I drive over to UK all the time, I wouldn't even bother with the electric. Enough to deal with than worrying which charger or which app you need etc. Then a bad crash etc and you can be stuck on a motorway for hours, especially at winter with snow etc. Not for me at this moment, maybe in future

liamog · 09-12-2021 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295554#Comment_118295554

How many times have you drove through the UK with an EV? The only app I use is my Google Pay on my phone, gridserve and osprey both use contactless payments and have multiple chargers per site.

Blue4u · 09-12-2021 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295568#Comment_118295568

I wouldn't drive it, I have a big durty diesel and I know I can fill it before getting on the boat and off I go.

Zenith74 · 09-12-2021 4:03pm

I've driven across the UK a few time in Leaf24s, there are way more chargers, generally at least 3 at each location and they seem to be fairly reliable. I wouldn't think twice about doing it in the likes of an ID3, go for it!

bkehoe · 09-12-2021 7:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295554#Comment_118295554

All you need to do is look at any of Bjorns camping videos to see how little energy the heating on a modern EV, especially ones with heat pumps use. Most seem to just be around 1% per hour when already up to temperature, and thats in the Arctic circle overnight. So there's no more inconvenience in the very unlikely scenario of getting stuck for several hours in traffic on a motorway in an EV vs a diesel.

Blue4u · 09-12-2021 8:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297594#Comment_118297594

I have an EV, a couple of them. Stick the heating on and the range drops significantly. Heated seats it uses about 1% on all of them.

It's the same on the diesel mind you but because you have a huge tank people don't notice it.

10-12-2021 11:18am

My car uses about 1 kWh per three hours when stationary at 0 degrees with heatpump on so it would have to be a rather spectacular stoppage if you arrived with say 30% or more of battery (100->0% is 8/9 full days). We are talking about 3 full days here. I suspect a diesel would use about 0.5 l/h at idle so 30 litres of diesel would last the same 2/3 days.

liamog · 10-12-2021 11:20am

My own car uses about 2kW per hour to maintain a comfortable cabin in the current weather, on the flip side if you are in heavy traffic or making slow progress the energy used for motion is much lower. My car does 250km at 60km/h or 160km/h at 120km/h. The reduced speed should more than make up for any extra time taken and balance it out.

Old diesel · 12-12-2021 3:34pm

400 kms is 250 miles.

I think its very doable with the UK charging networks.

Can't see why you'd need a diesel.

eagerv · 12-12-2021 3:59pm

Doesn't Silent Running of this parish regularly travel to somewhere in the UK SouthEast? IIRC he used to do it in an Ioniq, then a Niro and now an ID.3. He doesn't seem to be around atm, but I remember he said the ID.3 was the easiest of all, probably due to only needing one very quick charge stop..

Old diesel · 12-12-2021 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118309614#Comment_118309614

For my smaller battery car a Better Route planner reckons I could do that route from Holyhead with just over 1 hours charging time. If I leave Holyhead with 100 percent.

I recommend ensuring that the ambient temp in A Better Route Planner is at the temperature its likely to be for the trip.

Lemming · 12-12-2021 4:34pm

Besides UK motorway services - many of which seem well served with charging points (some with Tesla charging points too) - a lot of supermarkets & some of the larger shopping centres also provide charging points so you can expand your possible options by including those locations in any search regards planning. For example, I live in Sheffield and Meadowhall shopping centre has several charging points and is (literally) just off J33/34 of the M1, whereas motorway services are book-ended a few junctions apart again (I think J32/31ish) and you would have to go north of Barnsley (so somewhere past J35) for motorway services that might have EV charging points; so being able to include the likes of said shopping centre gives you more options, not to mention a few hours to kill if so inclined.

A relative of mine has an EV and she drives up to Scotland from Milton Keynes every now and again and finds it perfectly doable with stops for charging.

fricatus · 30-12-2021 12:15pm

OP, how did you get on?

remoteboy · 31-12-2021 2:47pm

Going great so far. Due back on Sunday. Will post a full update when I get back.

Purgative · 31-12-2021 7:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396018#Comment_118396018

I'd be very interested - being a range anxiety fence sitter :).

Have a great break and happy new year.

remoteboy · 06-01-2022 3:20pm

As promised here's the update. I'll break it up a bit to make it more readable. TLDR: started a bit hairy but worked out well and wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

Getting There (the scary bit)

Journey across started with the ferry. Booked an EV slot which meant I got to board first and get a good seat on the ferry. My SOC was mid 90s so didn’t really need to charge but topped up anyway. Was also one of the first cars off the ferry which was great.

I set up my route on ABRP which gave me two stops. I only had access to a granny charge at my sister’s house, so I set up to arrive with 50% battery. Plan was 2hr drive to Welcome Break Telford, 20 minute charge, another 1hr15m drive to Rugby Services, charge there for 20 minutes and then 1hr 15m to my destination arriving with 50% in the tank. Projected journey time was 4:30hrs plus 40min charging time.

The first issue I hit was that my bladder didn’t last two hours and the young fella was getting hungry so I needed to find another stop along the way after an hour. With a bit of fiddling about on ABRP on the ID3 I found somewhere and pulled in. I figured I’d get some charge here and maybe replan my route a bit.

There was only one charging station but at least it was available. No contactless available so needed to download an app, set up an account, add a payment method, etc. I’ll blame the lack of sleep for this one but rather than do this in the car where it was warm, I did this standing beside the charger where it was about 2 degrees. My hands were like claws by the time I was done. Plugged in and started the charge. App reserved 12£ from my Revolut card. Went for some food. Killed 20 minutes.

Went back to the card and the charge level has barely changed. Realised I had plugged in the AC charger not the DC charger! Stopped the charge (had spent just under 2£) and figured I’ll try again with DC. Removed the AC charger, put it back in the cradle but not properly. It fell out and landed on my foot. Possibly broke my big toe. Certainly bruised it very badly. Plugged in DC charger and restarted process. App took another 12£ from my Revolut. Then the charger wouldn’t start the charge and told me the unit was having issues and to try again. Tried this a few times with no joy (and a sore toe). Tried ringing the service number but no-one answered.

Decided to get back on the old route, head to Telford and put a full charge in her then bypass Rugby and head straight to my sister’s house with whatever was left in the battery.

Got to Telford. Big row of Tesla chargers but only two Gridserve units. There was a car charging at one but the other was free. It was also broken. Feeling slightly panicky at this stage when the chap who was charging turned up and told me he was nearly done. So I waited a few minutes and then hooked up to the working charger. It was another non-contactless unit so out with the app again. Another 12£ reserved on my Revolut. At this point I had 36£ reserved on my Revolut and had only used 2£ of electricity. This charge went smoothly. I killed 35-40 minutes, thanked the heavens that I was travelling with the patient child and not the teenager and charged up to 90%.

Ended up stopping (but not charging) in Rugby because tiredness was kicking in and needed a quick break. Really impressive setup - 12 Gridserve chargers and 12 Tesla chargers. It was pretty busy too - only one or two free slots.

remoteboy · 06-01-2022 3:20pm

Being there

Arrived in my sisters with 20% in the tank. All the faffing about on the first stop cost me an extra hour so my 5h10m minute journey ended up close to 6h30m. Tired, but made it there with lessons learnt. Average consumption was 18.5kw/h for a >400km journey and plenty of motorway driving (and air con on most of the time). The following day two of my 12£ charges were replaced with the actual cost of charging. The third charge however was still listed as pending.

I stuck the car on charge with the granny cable and put it all behind me. I plugged in around 8 in the evening and when I checked around lunchtime the following day I was surprised to see how much charge had gone in. In retrospect 16 hrs @ 2kw gives you 32kw of juice which is more than 50% of battery capacity. But the granny cable quickly went from being a backup plan to a viable charging option. Most of the time in my sisters was short trips but we did have three or four longer trips visiting relatives in London, picking up people from the airport, etc. As long as I plugged in in the late evening there was always plenty of juice there in the morning. Probably charged three or four times when I was there.

remoteboy · 06-01-2022 3:21pm

Getting home

Journey back was a cinch. I’d learnt my lesson. Only stop at locations with at least three chargers. Check the status of the chargers before starting the journey in case any problems reported. And don’t drink so many cups of tea before you start the drive.

Projected journey was 4h30 of driving and 1h of charging. Plan was drive for 1hr 15m, arrive at Rugby with 63%, charge for 16m to 87%. Then 1h15m to Sandbach. Arrive at 35%, charge to 93%, then 2 hr to Holyhead with 20% battery and charge on the boat.

In reality we arrived in Rugby with 65% battery and charged to 93% (we stayed a bit longer cos weren’t in a rush). Arrived in Sandbach with 47% in the tank and charged to 95% (took 47 minutes) and arrived in Holyhead with 27%. Both Rugby and Sandbach were contactless which was great. Everything worked first time with no messing about. Journey took 30 minutes longer than predicted (but that was down to us taking longer at rest stops). stuck the car on charge on the ferry and disembarked with the battery sitting at 71%.

Couple of notes -

The way across was just me and my youngest. The way back was me, my wife and both kids, plus a fully laden boot and some extra stuff in the rear of the car. So I figured we’d see much worse economy. Nope. Averaged just under 18kw/h on the way back - it was a warmer day so I guess that was a contributing factor.
Was really impressed with the boot space. The car is a trooper.
We were never waiting around for the car to charge - we always took longer to get ourselves organised, fed, watered, etc than the car did.
My third £12 charge finally disappeared from my Revolut app yesterday.

Hopefully there's some useful information in there. Happy to answer questions.

slave1 · 06-01-2022 4:42pm

Sounds fun, especially the outward leg, this is why I transported in my two EV UK imports because I couldn't be arsed will all that fluffing around. I've done two UK trips since then with fully laden car both times and just used Tesla SuC network which is 100% reliable and never more than a 15-20minute stop as they are so plentiful over there now.

10-10-20 · 06-01-2022 4:59pm

Good update! I had to laugh at the hazards of EV driving - those connector heads are heavy in fairness. I'd also have stood out in the cold while connecting the charge at your first stop - just in case some cheeky bugger grabbed the charger while I wasn't focused on it.

BTW, did you go for ABRP Premium or did it matter?

remoteboy · 06-01-2022 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118427945#Comment_118427945

I bought Premium for one month so I could get it working through Apple CarPlay. I’ve unsubscribed now. I love what the app does but hate the interface so much.

fricatus · 06-01-2022 10:31pm

What car were you driving OP?

remoteboy · 06-01-2022 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118430024#Comment_118430024

VW ID.3 58kw. Family model.

cannco253 · 12-01-2022 11:22am

I see GridServe has increased their prices effective immediately

https://gridserve.com/2022/01/11/new-pricing-structure-for-gridserve-electric-highway/

"However, due to unprecedented spiralling costs impacting the entire energy sector, we have also now had to increase pricing – and to maintain our extremely competitive pricing, adopt a tiered approach depending on the power/location of the respective chargers.

Pricing for Medium Power Chargers – typically 60kW – which are primarily located at motorway service areas (the majority of which we upgraded in 2021) is increasing from 30p to 39p per kWh
Pricing for High Power Chargers – up to 350kW – located at our newly developed Electric Hubs (of which we currently have 13 in construction), is 45p per kWh
At our Electric Forecourts® we are able to keep pricing at 39p per kWh – even for 350kW chargers – as onsite solar generation and battery storage gives us more control over energy and distribution costs"

12-01-2022 4:41pm

I've done two journeys Dublin to Edinburgh and back again in my Ioniq28 since October (and will be doing same again at least three times this year).

Quite a few hiccups and "learning experiences' but got there and got home in one piece both times! (With herself, <1 year old and dog in the car too).

The Tritium / InstaVolt chargers, whilst expensive at 45p per kWh were rock solid guaranteed whenever you found them. The ChargePlaceScotland chargers were more frequent but far more variance in their utility and were often a single point of failure. Had a couple of hairy spots where I had genuinely no other option if charge point wasn't going to work but got away with it.

The ecars ni update to sprucefield was a nice bonus on Christmas Eve when I got a full top up free at 4:45am whereas the previous journey I had only castlebellingham as my last option before the ferry.

Driving to the UK for Christmas. Take the diesel or the EV?

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