Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

Akrasia · 30-11-2021 11:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248578#Comment_118248578

Phew

They'll just about make it in time to theoretically travel to the wasps game, but realistically, a single additional setback will rule all of them out, I'm not confident that there won't be at least one more confirmed case between now and the 12th

TBH, the way this variant is spreading amongst vaccinated people, I can see more travel restrictions within the EU in the next week or two which could put all of the round one EPCR at risk.

2 weeks is a very long time at the start of a new covid surge

Akrasia · 30-11-2021 11:19PM

Also, I really feel for the people who were left behind. It's a truly sh1tty situation that they're in. I hope none of them get too sick, and that they can get through this nightmare scenario, get the all clear and get home as soon as possible

Cookiemunster · 30-11-2021 11:57PM

You've no idea how this variant is spreading through vaccinated people. You don't even know what version of the virus the Munster players have or what the circumstances were that led to the infections.

While more testing has to be done pretty much all experts are saying that the vaccines will hold up well against this variant and that cases amongst the vaccinated are pretty mild.

Akrasia · 01-12-2021 12:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248881#Comment_118248881

90% of new cases in this region of SA are Omicron and the vast majority of IRFU workers are vaccinated

Cookiemunster · 01-12-2021 07:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248909#Comment_118248909

Again. You can't use whats happened to Munster as proof that Omicron is vaccine resistant. It's much too small a sample size.

I'll defer to the actual experts who currently say that the vaccines will stand up to it rather than an Internet expert.

stephen_n · 01-12-2021 09:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249211#Comment_118249211

The CEO of Moderna said that the vaccine may need to be tweaked to deal with Omicron. That they believe it may be resistant to the vaccine. He said it’s unbelievable how much the virus has changed within one strain. Is he not an expert?

From the Information that’s coming out so far. Omicron seems to be much more infectious but a lot less damaging. Though it will be 3-4 weeks before they have enough information to know exactly what it does or doesn’t do. There are no experts, only data.

Cookiemunster · 01-12-2021 09:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249468#Comment_118249468

He said that the Moderna may not be as effective, not that it had no protection. The CEO of BioNTech has said that Pfizer vaccine is very likely to be effective against Omicron and the Israelis have said that early studies show 90% protection from Omicron after 3 doses. Oxford University have said that there's no reason to believe that their vaccine won't work against Omicron.

My main point however was that you cant state that the vaccines are not effective just because there was an outbreak amongst the Munster squad of an unconfirmed strain.

Akrasia · 01-12-2021 09:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249593#Comment_118249593

You're calling it an 'unconfirmed strain' The only reason they're stuck in SA is because of the Omicron variant that caused them to have to cancel their match and get a flight to Capetown. I'm going on the assumption that they're stuck in SA for the reason that they're stuck there, the Omicron variant.

There probably isn't a single person in the Munster squad who has had 3 doses of any vaccine, or a single person in South Africa for that matter

And, I'm not an anti vaxxer, I don't think the vaccine won't work, they will significantly reduce the risk of severe illness, but from the limited data I've seen, this variant seems to be more transmissible even amongst vaccinated people

This aligns with what the scientists are saying. The mutations in the spike protein can help it evade antibodies, but the T-Cell response will still be effective it to prevent serious illness.

mahoney_j · 01-12-2021 10:01AM

Ffs is this yet another thread about Covid related Shite we have to listen to at every corner we turn to ….from what I gather all but 14 of squad in way home rest have to remain in quarantine for a period …hopefully there welfare is top of the agenda …and prep can begin for wasps game …don’t give 2 shites about a lot of the other stuff filling pages here about irfu Covid vaccination rates what ceos of vacine companies are saying etc

lawrencesummers · 01-12-2021 10:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249468#Comment_118249468

Is he an expert?

Sure he is and expert in the same way a car salesman is an expert in cars.

Its not his knowledge that you need to understand, its his motivation because of his job that you need to take into account.

Jump_In_Jack · 01-12-2021 10:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248578#Comment_118248578

"As outlined by the government earlier this week, on arrival from South Africa the returning players and staff will follow mandatory self-isolation at their own locations."

At their own locations could mean at home with their families, or at a location of Munster's choosing, i.e. not a government decision where they locate.

Does anyone know which of the above it will be? I hope for the players' sakes they can recuperate at home with their families, mental wellbeing and everything is as important as anything else.

Cookiemunster · 01-12-2021 10:18AM

At their own location sounds more like at home than at any organised location. These are the members of the group who tested negative, so more self isolation than recuperation, but obviously they'll be happy to be home with their families. The 14 who are unfortunately still in a quarantine hotel in Cape Town will have to recuperate on their own.

stephen_n · 01-12-2021 10:27AM

It’s only 5 days quarantine for close contacts isn’t it? So assuming (hoping) there are no more positive cases when the squad returns to Ireland. They would be out of Quarantine early next week?

Jump_In_Jack · 01-12-2021 10:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249758#Comment_118249758

Yeah, in my head I'd meant recuperation from the ordeal, not from the virus, but obviously that was a confusing way to put it.

I hope they can get a few days off with family and shut off from this until Monday, and then regather and begin to train in the squad bubble then if that's allowed. Or maybe might be better if they train in smaller bubbles like they did before, where player in the same position weren't allowed in the same bubble. I really don't see how they are going to prepare properly for the Wasps match. A lot of Zoom meetings and individual training I suppose. Something like this might also inspire a bit of a team morale boost, or maybe that's just wishful thinking!

01-12-2021 10:35AM

Do we know who's being left in SA?

Jump_In_Jack · 01-12-2021 10:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249806#Comment_118249806

Honestly I don't know about 5 days or 10 days, it hasn't really been spelled out by Munster yet what exactly is going to happen. It will certainly be interesting to find out.

Akrasia · 01-12-2021 10:36AM

I think the 'at their own locations' part probably refers to the fact that the Cardiff players are not being allowed to return home, while Munster players and staff can return home, or join a camp if they are going to be required to for the upcoming HCup games

aloooof · 01-12-2021 10:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249708#Comment_118249708

It's still very early days with this variant so I think a lot of the quotes from experts are (perfectly reasonably) tempered with a "we don't know yet" element, but there is some cause for concern. For example::

Worryingly, said Jacob Glanville, a computational immunologist and founder of US therapeutics company Centivax, 15 of the mutations were on the “receptor binding domain”, which acts like a “grappling hook” for the Sars-Cov-2 virus to enter human cells.

These mutations help the virus circumvent the body’s immune defences because it is trained by vaccines or previous infection to fight the original strain first detected in Wuhan. By comparison, the Delta variant that has come to dominate the pandemic worldwide reduced the effectiveness of vaccines with just three mutations in this region.

In an Omicron briefing on Monday, Jonathan Van-Tam, England’s deputy chief medical officer, said it was “likely” there would be an impact on the effectiveness of vaccines.

Michael Mina, an epidemiologist at Harvard Medical School:“There isn’t much in this virus [genetic] sequence suggesting it should be very mild,” he said.

Then equally there are also quotes like the following:

Even if Omicron proves to be the most infectious Sars-Cov-2 variant so far, there is no clear evidence yet from South Africa or anywhere else about whether it will turn out to cause worse symptoms. “It could go either way,” said Centivax’s Glanville. “The mutations could make it worse or the mutations could make it more benign.”

The new variant is “most unlikely to fully escape immunisation provided by vaccination and prior infection”, said Francois Balloux, director of the UCL Genetics Institute in London.. “With high vaccination rates and promising drugs on the horizon, a possible B.1.1.529 wave should be far less painful to weather than the Alpha and Delta ones.”

stephen_n · 01-12-2021 10:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249842#Comment_118249842

Hopefully it’s only 5 days as per previous HSE guidelines. That would at least allow for some preparation going into the game.

Former Former Former · 01-12-2021 10:48AM

Allowing these guys to go home and stay with their families is madness.

Like, I know it's a difficult time for all of them but it would be a major surprise if more of them don't test positive in the coming days.

(I know that's not Munster's call to make, btw)

Akrasia · 01-12-2021 10:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249671#Comment_118249671

I don't think anyone wanted this thread to be dragged down into Covid BS, but sh1t happens and Covid is looking like it will continue to disrupt rugby into 2022

How disruptive Omicron ends up being will massively impact how the URC and European Rugby will play out this year

phog · 01-12-2021 11:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249900#Comment_118249900

If you tested positive tomorrow, where would you isolate?

If a HSE frontline worker tests positive tomorrow, where would they isolate?

These guts have tested NEGATIVE on a few occasions recently and will probably be tested again on arrival home to Ireland.

Quin_Dub · 01-12-2021 11:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249880#Comment_118249880

I suspect that it's 10 days as they have travelled which is the current guidance , nothing really to do with being "close contacts" per se.

If that's the case , then none of them would be available for the Wasps game as it stands.

However it's not clear if you can get out of the isolation early after a series of negative PCR tests.

We'll just have to wait to see as the scenario unfolds.

But for now , it's great they are on their way home and hope that they are all safe and well . Also hope that the 14 remaining in SA don't have any undue symptoms and can come safely in time for Christmas etc. with family.

FACECUTTR · 01-12-2021 11:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118250106#Comment_118250106

There are specific hotels available for isolating if it is not safe to do so at home or you don't have somewhere to isolate.

Quin_Dub · 01-12-2021 11:46AM

Actually - Just did a quick look up and this is the current info available online vis a vis isolation

Arrivals who have been in southern Africa

If you were in any of the countries in the list below in the past 14 days, you should not travel to Ireland, except in some cases (see ‘Exemptions’ below):

Botswana
Eswatini
Lesotho
Mozambique
Namibia
South Africa
Zimbabwe

If you are already in Ireland and you were in any of the above countries since 1 November 2021, you should book a free RT-PCR test.

Visa rules for citizens of the above countries have changed.

Exemptions

You can only travel to Ireland if you if you are:

An Irish or EU citizen and their family members
A UK citizen
Legally resident in Ireland, or you have a right of free movement in the EU
A diplomat or a person with diplomatic immunity
A transport worker travelling as part of your work

Travellers must quarantine at the address you gave on your passenger locator form for 14 days upon arrival. You must get a RT-PCR test at day 2 and day 8. The HSE (The Irish health service) will contact you to arrange the tests. You can leave home quarantine on day 10 if your tests are negative. If your test is positive, you must quarantine for 10 days from the date of the positive test.

So minimum of 10 days isolation it would seem and based on recent comments there will be no "elite athlete" allowances...

Former Former Former · 01-12-2021 12:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118250106#Comment_118250106

The guys who tested POSITIVE yesterday had also tested NEGATIVE on a few occasions recently. It didn't help them.

I know they'll be tested again once they come home, the problem is that quarantining at home is an inherently leaky system. It's not a dig at Munster, it's an observation on our system.

Cookiemunster · 01-12-2021 12:05PM

Cian Tracey reporting that Chris Farrell is back in training this week and that Salanoa may be too. Every body counts when trying to get a squad together, but getting 6 front rows is still an issue. Hopefully some of the lads returning are front rows who can get out of isolation in time to sit on the bench. Obviously not ideal, but what else can you do.

Caranica · 01-12-2021 12:40PM

We know at least one of the players who's still in SA. A certain player who made comments about the vaccine has posted on his social media.

Quin_Dub · 01-12-2021 12:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118250368#Comment_118250368

Would be great if they were back in the mix.

Also - reading the Isolation rules again - It's technically 9 days Isolation and then free to move on Day 10

Assuming all the tests are clear, you can leave Isolation ON Day 10 , so on that basis if they arrive today and today is considered Day 1 then in theory those players would be free to move on the Friday the 10th (or worst case Saturday 11th if Day 1 is tomorrow) so whilst it's terrible in terms of preparation at least they would technically be available for the match.

Jump_In_Jack · 01-12-2021 12:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118250252#Comment_118250252

But if the Munster players arrive home today as per the reports so far, that means they have 10 days between now and the 11th, and could possibly fly over for the match on the 12th, the kick-off time is 3:15PM, late afternoon, so should be plenty of time to travel that morning and get settled before kick-off. It's cutting it very fine, but still possible, unless I'm after missing something. Obviously the impact on preparation is a totally different issue.

Edit: I see you just posted moments before me with your own conclusion similarly.

Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

Comments

Arrivals who have been in southern Africa

Exemptions