Austria hits panic button.

Except thats not how things work.

Vaccines do work, however they do not prevent disease.

How difficult is this for people to understand?

The vaccines we have today are doing exactly what they were designed to do, however if people keep getting COVID then the virus is going to keep mutating and will mutate into something that our current vaccines dont cover. We may be able to modify the vaccines to cover the new variants, but maybe not, maybe some new strain will be much more contagious, or have much worse and more widespread long term problem, or hell just kill more people.

The anti-vaxxers, as they clearly don't have a scientific or indeed logical argument against vaccination, will generally set up these impossible tollgates as a measure of success for the vaccines. And then, when these impossible tollgates 'fail' to be met they will triumphantly claim victory.

You literally can't argue with them based on facts and empirical reasoning so why bother?

As the old saying goes: "never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." 😀

How can you still hold such a view when the numbers of people that are unvaccinated are having significantly higher representation in ICU than those with the vaccine?

Its so simple to see. If you have the vaccine, you are less likely to need ICU. If you dont have the vaccine, you are more likely to need ICU.

Anything that reduces your chances of going to ICU is the good move, because if you are in ICU.. you are in serious trouble .

And that's just focussing on the benefits to you, the receiver of the vaccine.

The real benefit is to society at large; a hospital system that can function without being overwhelmed by unvaxxed very sick covid patients, an economy that can reopen, a society where people can safely mingle.

The decision not to take a safe, effective vaccine should be called out for what it is: selfish, ignorant behaviour.

Vaccines reduce the impact of the disease and your ability to spread it, by reducing your viral load.

No one said they prevent spread or protect against infection, but you keep banging that strawman.

The more people that are vaccinated the harder it is for the vaccine to circulate, which makes it harder to mutate.

All of which are deadly...

Covid19 deaths among children are almost non existent, youngest death in Ireland was 14...

Statistically, flu is more deadly than Covid19 for children

Which would be useful if children lived in isolation, but they dont.

Sweet, can you show us anything that backs up your assertion that vaccines are doing nothing? Can you point to some studies or even countries who are not using any vaccines but are doing better than those who are?

What do you think the spread would be without the vaccine?

Sorry but where is the logic there, the people they live with, come in contact with, should be vaccinated to the max right?

The vaccines are clearly not highly effective at stopping transmission but are very effective at preventing hospitalisation and/or deaths.

The incidences of children needing hospitalisation are very very low.

So who does vaccinating children help?

Im vaccinated myself but will not be in any rush to vaccinate my children… where is the benefit? A marginal reduction in transmission which could be negated by a variant within a few months?

This virus will not be wiped out, it’s too transmissible. It’s going to be endemic, so let’s drop that fantasy please.

We have had official numbers now for a few weeks, of approx 4000+ Cases per day. Of those, kids under 12 make up 25%. The rest are coming from our highly vaccinated adult population. So the vaccine may be somewhat effective at stopping transmission, but clearly, vaccinations are not going to reduce the spread of this virus down to nothing.

On your question of what to do with those that can’t get the vaccination, well, they presumably are already isolating themselves from everybody, because plenty of vaccinated people are transmitting it.

As an adult I took the decision to get vaccinated myself, knowing that we simply do not know if there are any downsides to it, in the long term. We do not know because it is a new vaccine and the only way to tell is by allowing time to pass.

making that decision for your children is a different matter.

not interested in future scariants of covid. Much like the flu there will be good and bad years. Covid is here to stay.

When the vaccines have been proven and safe for long term use, then I would weigh up the risk vs benefit and see then if it’s worth getting children vaccinated.

Lets not forget, this is a moving target. This spring and summer was vaccines will get us out of it. Clearly that is not the case. Vaccines are just about keeping the wolf from the door.

Ok. I only just saw this now. This missing word could have been "avoid" rather than "take"

Why should kids take the vaccine? The answer is simple - to protect them. Kids get other vaccines too. If the vaccine is approved by the medical community as safe and effective for them to take, then they should take it. It will protect them, and also protect their classmates.

When they are doing risky activities - then of course. When biking or rollerblading or skateboarding or horse-riding etc. Helmets are mandatory when playing hurling and other games too.

You balance the risk with the inconvenience. Getting a vaccine shot is a 5 minute commitment (well you go twice but you know what I mean). If that 5 minute commitment will protect you from a virus that is circulating everywhere then it should be done. Like the HPV vaccine that wasn't being given out. It would have saved many young womens lives if it had been. It should have been done.

The lancet study

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

published Oct 29 2021 concluded that 2 dose vaccines were 34% effective at preventing transmission of the Delta variant in household settings. So ‘some what’ effective at best. 100% vaccination is neither possible, nor would it stop transmission if it was.

This does not solve the problem for those who cannot be vaccinated. So yes, if covid is going to kill them if they get it, they need to be very very careful because transmission of the virus is not stopped by vaccination. Thats not my plan, that’s just the facts of the matter .

Im not saying I won’t let any children take it, I am saying I won’t let mine. I am not relying on anybody else’s children to take it either, I have no intention to give my children the vaccine as there is no benefit to my children in doing so, while there is a risk of the unknown. If nobody else wants to give it to their kids that’s absolutely fine with me.

From talking with friends, all of whom are college educated, intelligent people, no issues with well established vaccines, the sentiment is much the same as what I am saying.

I see you have decided that it’s the unvaccinated that are driving this… so I won’t engage any further. Vaccines thankfully break the link between cases and hospital admissions. Great, but kids don’t factor into hospital admissions much at present. If the facts change, I would revisit this, but definitely not putting them at even the slightest bit of unnecessary risk for no benefit to them and a marginal reduction in transmission for everyone else.

I'm not sure where you're taking this, and expect it will be the Covid equivalent of "only the true Messiah denies his divinity".

If your child was coughing and sneezing with a cold, you wouldn't send them out to a party, never mind Covid.

If someone phoned me after my child was at a party, and said "just to know, our kid has just been diagnosed with Covid", I'd thank them for the information and look at whatever the advice is around testing and isolation in such cases.

But I wouldn't be worried about my child's health. At all. And, to be clear, all of ours got all the usual vaccines, like BCG and MMR. Didn't think twice about that. This is obviously different, for reasons that shouldn't require so much repetition.

How, in your opinion, did we get to the point where you didn't have to think twice about BCG & MMR?

What makes/made them "usual" vaccines? Considering that 4.28Bn people have taken a covid vaccine, at least 2 doses.