ECM espresso machine recommendation or alternative

I have just put a Profitec Pro 600 on adverts for sale. Owned since May 2021, only filtered water used. Purchased from Home Coffee Machines, based in Galway. They have confirmed that warranty can be transferred to new owner. Unable to paste link as I am new.

The lelit Elizabeth is also worth a look, it’s a dual boiler, I bought one last June and I’m very happy with it.

Rancilio Silvia Pro/Pro X.

Dual boiler with PID for both boilers.

Pro X is newest model with brewing pressure gage and more advanced firmware ( pre-infusion support etc)

Sorry to post again, but in an attempt to save others from angst & continuous searching & self-doubt....I have come to a decision. Well, a decision in principal anyhow. If I make the plunge, it will be the Silvia V6 + Rocky, homecoffeemachines.ie do a deal on it. Looks like a bit of a no-brainer from a value/quality perspective.

When I get notions, I can go for a PID https://mecoffee.nl/order/

Anyone got any thoughts on whether the above will be a noticeable improvment on a blade grinder and a bialatti moke pot for someone who likes strong-ish not-bitter flat whites. Am prepared to invest some time in dialling in/getting the perfect shot.

You might want to also consider this: https://www.coffeeitalia.ie/quick-mill-pegaso-03035.html

The grinder is of good quality and uses ring burrs.

There is also a PID version of the Pegasso, but not sure of any local distributors:

https://www.quickmill.it/en/products/group-quick-mill/mod-03035-pid/

Moka pots operate at too high a temperature for good coffee extraction. I used one for decades and swore by it, but having moved to a good espresso machine, I would never recommend one. You should taste a difference from that alone.

It is much easier, less effort to do it with dual boiler .

As a coffee snob I am not drinking coffee with milk :) so single boiler with PID working fine for me.

It is probably between

Silvia Pro vs Lelit Elizabeth PL92t

Thanks for that. Yes, I have this nagging feeling I am going too high end for my pallet & wallet!

As in, I don't really need a dual boiler, but I would like something with PID. And I definitely want to go the separate grinder route, even if the Sage pictures are very pretty!

Any got recommendations on a single boiler/heat exchanger with PID?

Quickmill do a PID plus boiler and heat exchanger for the steam: https://www.coffeeitalia.ie/quick-mill-silvano-04005.html

Thanks - that's coming in at around 1k, with the Silvia Pro (dual boiler, kick ass steam for the milky drinker in my life) plus a Rocky available for €1,600. Kind of thinking that the Silvia Pro plus a grinder is hard to beat at that price.

It definitely not heat exchanger, probably good machine , for the person like me :) ( who only does milky coffee for the visitors)

It is 400 ml boiler with PID for brewing and thermoblock for steaming.

So you definitely have a good chance to make great espresso shot ( 400 ml boiler vs 300 ml boiler for Silvia) and PID allow you to tweak temperature for every stubborn bean.

Thermoblock for the steaming not the great choice for the milky person , I am not sure if anyone else doing this , to be honest ,apart from Delonghi , Nespesso etc. not a popular choice for €1000 machines.

Heat exchanger different system altogether, it is a big boiler for steaming ( 1-2 litres) and coil with brewing water inside the steaming boiler . This system would be good compromise for the person who drinks milky coffee mostly , lots of steaming power but no precise temperature control over the brewing water .

Ok, I'm triggered - and biased. My Quickmill has an inbuilt grinder, which produces what I consider excellent results, so I am wondering what experience exactly are you basing your expertise on the quality and functioning of all inbuilt grinders on? How do you know that the consistency varies with temperature, for instance?

Quickmill is an Italian company that has more than half a century of expertise in making stand alone coffee grinders, as well as other kitchen appliances that do violent things to foodstuffs. They currently make 5 different grinders: https://www.quickmill.it/en/products/grinders/

as well as a range of espresso machines, both with and without grinders.

This is the burr set in a Pegasso like mine:

Now I am sure some machines with integrated grinders may well have less impressive dentures and performance, but that doesn't mean all do, so generalisations and equipment snobbery just don't cut it and are not helpful without something other than hearsay or prejudice as the prime information source.

That is exactly what I was objecting to - generalisations. My Honda doesn't have the same reliability as the previous Fiat. After 15 years it's still on it's original exhaust, wheras the Fiat at 11 years was on it's third. If someone were to allege that all cars are generally unreliable and a pain, I would similarly speak up.

My Quickmill heats in 1 minute and it's usually only 3 by the time I run a shot. The grinder section is to the side, back and down from the thermobock and when I have had occasion to stick my hand in the hopper, it's just warm, and nowhere close to hot. Warm isn't going to expand metal parts to any degree that would matter. I haven't noticed any tendancy to variance in grind consistency.

If I were to replace the machine, I wouldn't hesitate to get another Quickmill with an inbuilt grinder and haven't once considered getting a standalone.