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Lab grown diamond or other gemstone

  • 24-11-2021 9:56pm
    #1
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hi all,


    Anyone with experience on this?

    I was getting a present today for the other half, a very well known jewellers in the city asked had I ever heard of lab grown diamonds, explained a bit about them, not mined etc.

    Said they are identical to mined ones but grown so no environment impact.


    Anyone heard of these, or was it waffle. As said guy said it was from a BIG chain of them.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭ozmo


    Think they have to have a tiny stamp marked on them somewhere as they are ridiculously pure or something.

    “Roll it back”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Inferior! The naturalness is part of the charm imo

    I didn't think artificial diamonds had attained much popularity. I suppose technically they are less flawed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭ElJaguar


    I only buy blood diamonds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    You may know this already but anyway, there is a supply of raw diamond big enough to give every person in the US a cup full of them. Theyre in no way rare. Just the supply is held down by debeers and a few others. The natural market value of diamond is about the same as shyte.



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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I didn't actually!


    Just something which came up from the jewellers themselves, your man said they are a sustainable alternative.

    I thought he was talking rubbish,but apparently not!

    Asked a friend yesterday, he said his recent engagement ring was a lab grown. I wonder are they as good?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    And the fact that mine workers mostly live in poverty due to low wages, and a lot of them are children, what effect does this have on their charm?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Okay fair enough. But clothes, runners, smartphone components and many other things are produced by child labour/in near-slave conditions so it is a wide problem usually ignored by most people.

    If I had a choice between a natural diamond that had definitely been mined ethically and a lab grown one I'd prefer the former.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    See, that was why I asked the initial question!

    I never knew there was anything other than mined ones, and I know some mining conditions are bad.

    Didnt actually know you could grow one in a lab. Just spoke to the jeweller again this morning as needed to order, he said the lab one has all the certs and such etc from a thing called GIA ( dont ask me)

    Said only drawback is resale value, but as its a present I dont imagine I will sell it again :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Yeah, that's why I try my best to not support those industries any more than I have to.

    As mentioned already, diamonds aren't rare, or particularly expensive. It's just the way the market is controlled and advertised that controls the price and appeal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Well if it's of heirloom quality or slightly lower the resale value could matter to whoever inherits it, in fifty or a hundred years time.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    Its very difficult to find an ethically processed diamond not from a lab, you'd be happy to pay a premium of 1000s, for an inferior product that no one but a professional could distinguish?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The technical flawlessness of lab grown diamonds are an indicator of their artificiality. They sell for less because they are less valuable.

    A non-professional could struggle to distinguish diamond from zirconium.

    Lads the 'inferior product' line is a bit of a joke. Diamonds are not washing machines, they are diamonds. Jewellers are generally marketing them as a cheap alternative to the real thing.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah, just never knew before or thought about it.



    I will explore more and come back. On the heirloom, it's more sentimental than anything, a ring for circa 2k.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    Mined diamonds are more expensive due to mining.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The rarity of unique stones produced by nature is a factor in the price.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭Lillyfae




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭ozmo


    Except they may not be as rare as we are led to believe.. there are hoards of them- stored away to keep scarcity high.

    Its only relatively recently that diamonds were heavily advertised as a must-have for engagement rings and so inflated their value...

    “Roll it back”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Yes I agree. There is huge price manipulation just as there is manipulation in the silver market.

    All assets are massively inflated at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭griffin100


    My mate works as a diamond trader. He has worked in the industry for decades, including for DeBeers who mange and control most mined diamonds in the world. He now sells unset cut diamonds into the jewellery trade.

    A few years he sold almost no lab grown diamonds, now they make up the bulk of his business. They are better quality than mined diamonds and are cheaper, although the price differential has shrunk over the past couple of years he tells me.

    There is no way to tell a lab grown diamond from a mined diamond except that the lab grown ones tend to be better quality. The GIA use the same rules for grading both types so a VS1 H 1CT diamond for example is the same whether lab grown or mined.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    My wife used to make diamonds in a factory out by M1/M50 junction years ago. 30c US a carat at the time was all they were worth.

    It certainly used to be the case that man made diamond was not allowed to be used in the jewellery business, Debeers and the like wouldn't allow to protect their cartel and inflated pricing.

    We've still got 2 vials of the stuff sitting in the home office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Maybe I'm wrong, since I'm the only person who thought natural seemed better. It looks like lab grown diamonds are becoming popular.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603




  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Irish_wolf


    I don't understand the fascination with mined diamonds when there are hundreds of different gem stones and crystals like opals that are far more beautiful and intricate with a huge variety of shades and colours where the imperfections/contaminants actually do add to the beauty and uniqueness of the gem. Like a mined diamond is just a really shiny lump of well organised carbon, and are actually inferior to the lab grown ones. Why someone would work anything from 1-12 months of their life just to own an inferior gem baffles me. Get a ring made of meteorite, or some rare earth metal. Get a sapphire or an emerald or the gem that aligns with birth or something.

    I can't see the diamond industry lasting in it's current form. Look at amethysts for example. Once their beautiful deep purple was prized as highly as rubies and sapphires, now because of massively increased supplies they are a tenth if not less than the price of their counterparts. Carbon is an abundant material, it might not be for a few decades but the time will come where the average person could probably have a diamond grower in their house for making tool tips etc. and all those mined diamonds will only have sentimental or historical value.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,552 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    People talking about the lab grown ones having a lower resale value, and they do but it's not like the mined ones retain most of their value after you leave the jewellers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,512 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Child labour helps keep prices down to a more sustainable level.

    I do not understand the fascination with having a vulgar piece of shiny stone on one's finger.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thanks all.


    Some feedback, I asked a more local Jeweler to see what they had in lab grown. Price was roughly 35% cheaper than mined, or the way I looked at it, I could get a sizably bigger ring for the price I had planned ( 1.8K)

    The local chap said 5 years ago, not a sinner would but these, now they account for 30% of sales. Said yes, main issue is AT THE MOMENT, They dont know about the re-sale, but the process isnt really old enough to know this anyway.

    Overall, I put in an order for a lab grown Sapphire and Diamond ring, cost was 1599 for this, but the equivalent one in mined was 2350, so overall I feel its good. They come with certification and everything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    I wouldn't insult the wife by buying makey uppy fake diamonds. Not natural at all. That's part of the charm of real diamonds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 531 ✭✭✭zac8


    Same here. You’re basically saying “sure that’ll do and I’ll save a few quid” which is not really the signal you want to send with a gift for your partner.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 571 ✭✭✭sonyvision


    My partner choose a lab grown diamond for her engagement right. The quality of the stone was far better in terms of clarity, flaws, colour.

    I'm not one bit concerned of the retail value of the diamond. Far as we care the retail to see it on is zero but the ring looks fab. Substantial saving in the cost of 50% over the mined diamond. When your saving for a wedding, house and kids to come down the line she much rather have the ring she wanted and still have a small some in the bank.


    OP good choice with the lab diamond.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Well designed rings with intricate settings and good diamonds will probably actually appreciate in value over time ......



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If you want to save some money, watch Blood Diamond with the misses before heading to the jeweller. Lab-grown all the way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    Synthetic diamond prices are generally lower than natural diamonds, and the price of lab-created diamonds continues to drop (as much as 30% in a year). This is due to lab-grown diamonds not having any resale value and that the demand for lab-grown diamonds continues to decrease. 

    No matter the synthetic diamond price, lab-grown diamonds have no resale value. Take a look at this 1.21ct diamond from James Allen. There’s no doubt that it’s a nice-looking diamond. Yet no jeweler will buy it back. If you try to sell lab-grown diamonds on eBay, you’ll get pennies on the dollar for it.

    What are Lab Created (Man-Made) Diamonds - A Complete Guide



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    Just bought a pair(different batch numbers, which are laser cut into the diamonds) of round .08 carat purple hued pink diamonds.

    These were mined at the Argyle diamond mine in the Kimberley region in Western Australia. Currently this mine is closed.

    Absolutely beautiful to look at. My 9 yo granddaughter will be getting them for Christmas.

    Some people think you can just go to the diamond mines and buy them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32 matt.v


    Unless your wife is a trained professional she'll never know the difference, not that there is any shame in getting a lab grown diamond either. I've heard of people going for vintage jewellery / getting old jewellery repurposed to avoid supporting an industry that is reliant on child labour and has a massive environmental impact. I think its a small compromise to keep the "wonder" of a millions year old rock sitting on your hand.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    It's not reliant on child labour. It's very easy for a goldsmith to purchase authentic, conflict free diamonds, or any precious stone really.

    And there's also the possibility that your wife will find out it's fake when she brings it to a good goldsmith to have it professionally valued for insurance purposes. I wouldn't fancy having to explain that one to her 😁



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    All rocks are millions of years old. And something like iron is far more interesting than a diamond since the former "is only formed in the massive stars which end their lives in supernova explosions."

    Diamonds are pretty of course but that's the only quality they have for me.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Not unless they're of a large size and/or from a known and in demand jeweller. If the ring is gold or platinum that'll hold more value than the diamonds involved.

    It's been said more than once already, but it seems DeBeers marketing still has a strong hold on attitudes. Diamonds are not rare. They're one of the most common precious stones on the planet. As was noted earlier the annual output of diamonds would fill a small cup with them for every American. By carat rubies are worth more, even with DeBeers marketing. One reason DeBeers pushed the "diamonds are forever" line was they didn't want people selling them on and noticing the crap return on them. They also pushed clarity as a thing because the vast majority of diamonds are clear. At one time coloured diamonds were far more sought after and valuable. They also came up with the months wages for an engagement ring(later six months) and that diamonds were the engagement jewel. The gra for diamonds is pretty much entirely artificially marketing driven.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But, they are no way fake diamonds. But debeers HQ thank you. Marketing's greatest achievement. Borderline brainwashing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    If they're not traditionally obtained i.e mined, then to my mind they're fake.

    I play golf. Plenty of fake Chinese made clubs in the market that most golfers would struggle to see the difference between, say, a top of the range mizuno iron Vs an identical one produced in a "factory" somewhere in China. If the wife bought me the Chinese ones as a gift, well I'm sorry, but they're going in the bin.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Your analogy is incorrect. It's more correct to say your wife bought you superior golf clubs but you binned them because they weren't the "in" brand. Yeah, that's how silly it is.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    That's a how a lot of branding works mind you, particularly luxury branding. It's one big reason why such brands crap themselves over fakes and prime their buyers against them. Take Rolex. A once mid tier "good watch" brand, now trading as top luxury, with models that have barely changed over fifty years, but are at least five times more expensive than they were. In the old days someone might pick up a fake from a dodgy looking character on a Benidorm beach with a cheap quartz movement that would last about as long as your tan when you got home. These days you can buy extremely convincing fakes that even experts would have to take time to spot for under a grand(in some cases like hand finishing the fakes can be better), when the real deal would cost eight times that. That's a big concern to the brand because it shows the "value" gulf all too clearly and telegraphs you're paying for the brand name as much as anything.

    With stuff like luxury handbags and clothes costing a kings ransom this can be even more in play. A few years ago there was a glut of fake handbags doing the rounds, made in Italy by organised crime types in small workshops and some of the fakes could be spotted because they were better made than the real thing.

    Those who buy luxury items are buying into that layer of absraction to justify the cost and that's hard to justify if the "fake" is as good or better.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I buy fake Onitsuka Tigers but they're called "clones". Goat leather, far more comfortable and durable than the real ones, and around the same price. They're what the originals should be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,661 ✭✭✭quokula


    To me lab diamonds are superior - they are not fakes, they are absolutely real diamonds, just created in a different way. A way that is far, far less problematic for the environment and for human rights.

    However, there is a big but. Lab grown diamonds depreciate in value while mined diamonds generally don’t (depending on quality). This may not always be the case but it has been to date. So a good quality mined diamond may be an investment you can pass down to your kids or grandkids, while a lab grown diamond will not hold the same value. You could argue that this is wrong, that it’s market manipulation or whatever, but it’s a market we all have to live in and it’s just a fact.

    Maybe this will change as perceptions change. Or maybe it will actually magnify as lab grown diamonds become more common and mined diamonds become more rare. But for now a mined diamond, though more expensive, represents better value financially as it doesn’t start dramatically losing its value the second you walk out the door of the jewellers in the way a lab grown diamond does.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why? A diamond is a carbon crystal. Same thing.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They aren’t rare. You’ve been totally taken in by DeBeers marketing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    There is very little resale value in diamond rings. They're just like cars. As soon as they're taken out of the jewelers shop, the value drops



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭SuperS54


    Mined diamonds absolutely depreciate in value! Try to resell one of those typically used in an engagement ring, it's worth SFA. Talk of clarity and imperfections is complete nonsense for someone purchasing an engagement ring, NO-ONE at the dinner table is ever going to see the difference. If you future wife is the type that insists on spending 50% extra for the same thing then fire ahead, you're going to have bigger issues in the future anyway...



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Kathryn Dry Historian


    The diamond market is an even greater scam than the art world.

    100% correct decision to go with the lab grown diamond, OP.

    If the wife wants something that's millions of years old, you can get her a 400,000,000 year old fossilised goniatite dish on The Rock Shop for €30



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