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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    You seem to be living in some fantasy land where Irish cities are a lovely utopia of perfectly functioning efficiency and environmental bliss, last time I checked they all had rough scummy areas and were jammed full of cars? Litter all over the place, water most people don't want to drink, housing stock built 100 years ago that is some of the worst energy efficiency in all of Ireland and any houses that don't fit that criteria are €350k+?



    The great thing about water leaks is that they have the potential to leave in contamination as well as let water escape, you know what other pipes are buried beside the water pipes in our lovely cities and are just as likely to leak?

    But I guess buying bottled water is just something people in the city enjoy doing, must be their water is getting polluted by that pesky one off housing eh?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,091 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    F' the EPA and the other dipsh​​it civil service tax sponges. These were the geniuses who said nothing about Gormley's forcing everyone into diesels instead of petrol driven vehicles which emit water vapour and plant food. Diesel exhaust contains the most potent carcinogen ever discovered, in addition to NO, which I knew when the EPA apparently didn't. The bleeps to this day, still haven't reversed the fuel excise disparity that favours diesel - which normally should be a lot more expensive than petrol because when you refine a barrel of oil you get far more petrol than diesel.

    Nice attempt at a dodge. You can't answer the question because there isn't a meaningful answer. Your precious civil servants have it in for septic tanks. Not hard to wage war on something when you are the ones setting the standards. A 100% inspection failure rate is easily achieved. It is believed that there is more bacteria in the soil and rocks of the planet than there is life above ground. They eventually digest everything, even oil spills. There were no shocking consequences in that report, apart from the headline grabbing inspection failure, because there likely aren't any. Food for bacteria, shock horror. I have no doubt there are occasionally real problems, but the real problems from civil servant managed waste treatment and sewage systems are vastly worse.

    You could entirely do away with them and up the cost for one-off house builders by requiring holding tanks that are pumped out by a tanker regularly, and people would install them and pay up. Unnecessary, though.

    A connection charge is levied for electricity. The poles and infrastructure are already there because of the need posed by farms, just as they are in towns. After the connection that's it. The ESB haven't touched a thing on my property since the initial connection two decades ago. I have, however paid 20 years of vat on the electricity consumed together with the rural network maintenance levy. As per the photo I posted, the real costs of rural networks are posed by farms and their commercial scale needs.

    Same for your BS about rural road maintenance - all the damage is caused by heavy commercial vehicle traffic connected with agriculture and none by cars, effectively. This one is such a provable egregious lie, and yet your precious civil servants still have the neck to attempt to peddle it.

    Now it's the non-issue of septic tanks. Next I'm sure you will take a crack at water supply. What will the next spoof be; some report by a lefty green academic that the one off houses are lowering the water table because of insufficient rainfall in this country, threatening plans to pipe water from Lough Derg to meet the needs of all the socialist civil servants living cheek by jowl in Dublin and an axe to grind.

    The made up excuses are all addressable: sealed pumped waste tanks, stand alone off-grid solar/wind power systems, satellite broadband. These would eliminate all the arguments but more would be invented because imagined costs isn't the real issue, it's envy and begrudgery. Pity there isn't a healthy export market for socialist begrudgery, this country could earn a fortune.

    I'm originally from Australia. This locals only and socially/officially driven mania with controlling and dictating where people live is really foreign and weird - in a bad way. It doesn't happen in Australia. Ever hear complaints from Irish emigrants that they can't buy a house near the beach, despite having the money, because all the near/on beach land and housing is reserved for locals? Does this happen in the US, Canada, France? It's a peculiarly Irish mental disease - and that's what I think it is - it's not normal, it's wholly aberrant and unhealthy.

    It's so f'd up the EU have even warned Ireland about it:

    "THE controversial 'locals only' and 'must speak Irish' planning rules have been challenged by the EU as illegal and discriminatory.

    A landmark EU ruling yesterday will test the Fianna Fail/Greens coalition as the parties are poles apart on the issue of one-off houses in the countryside.

    The move will put serious pressure on 22 local authorities to abandon their 'locals only' policies when granting planning permissions.

    The EU ordered Ireland to explain why the 22 authorities discriminate in favour of local people." https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/locals-only-planning-rule-illegal-and-discriminatory-says-eu-26300271.html

    But hey, knock yourself out with increasing the exclusivity and attraction of my rural one-off properties and driving up the value of my assets, I'm currently in the process of offloading them so I can escape. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    "Exclusivity and attraction of my rural one-off properties"

    "F*ck the EPA and and the other dipsh​​it civil service tax sponges"

    "socialist civil servants"

    🤣🤣

    You've outdone yourself cnoc. Nutbar post. I feel like I'm reading satire, but then I realise you're actually for real.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,894 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Well, a lot of people want to be rich enough not to have to work too. And a lot of people want to have fun everyday.

    One-off housing is a big problem in dealing with climate change. No other country in the world has the problems we have in this regard, because they promote villages, towns and cities as the places to live. It is amazing the number of people who think Ireland can somehow be different in this and other ways.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    So if you were Taoiseach in the morning what would you do to solve this "big problem"?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Birkenstock wearing metropolitan elites want to keep me from my birthright - a three-story pebble-dashed architectural tribute to the Winter Palace in Petrograd in my grandad's field on the side of a mountain, complete with Roman columns, room for a pony and a car hole for the his and her's Toyota Land Cruisers.

    Anyone who says otherwise is a commufascist-eco-terrorist



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,618 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The only people that endorse the practice of one-off housing are yahoo TDs whose seat is shaky at the next election, everyone else acknowledges it`s a disaster

    Not only are your shirt tails showing, you sophisticated city folk haven`t been exaclty covering yourselves in glory with some you have elected over the years.

    Reading your posts and those of blanch and monk, all three of you are so blatantly anti anything rural it is actually amusing. I`m torn between as children all three of you suffering psychologican trauma at a young age from a cow or donkey looking sideways or just sheer jealousy as the reason for it.

    Interesting little titbit. 42% of the population of Ireland lives rurally, and that does not include those living in rural towns that depend on rural communities for their livelihood. And do you know the damndest thing of all ? All those yokels know how to mark a ballot paper. Quite good at it if you annoy them in fact. So push them the wrong way and it will not be just "yahoo TD`s" that will be in shaky seats. It will be political parties that are going to be depending on those "yahoo TD`s" to keep or put them in power. Don`t you just love democracy.

    Fortunately the big boys in politics know that and will tailor their cloth knowing it long before a general election is on the horizon. The Green`s haven`t even copped yet that they are sitting in a number of seats that they won on the coat tails of Sinn Fein (that must have stung blanch 😀) due to Sinn Fein not running enough candidates. Something they will have ensured long before the next election isn`t repeated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    False. 26 percent of dwellings are one offs, not 42 percent as you claim. (I have the link to the stat, but I usually wait for smartypants demand it from me first, before telling them to use AskJeeves.com themselves).

    No problem with people living rurally. In fact I'd like to give our rural villages a lifeline, because one-offs kill rural communities not help them.

    Land Cruiser to the Lidl anyone?

    * I grew up rural btw and still sound like I emerged from a ditch, so I'm loving people trying to paint me as some sort of die hard South Dublin Green Party flunkie 🤣 Hard to process for you I know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I have a good faith question for the McMansion septic tank crew here? Do you honestly believe that rural one offs are a good thing for the environment and your local village versus actually living in or reasonable proximity to an actual community? Or (as I suspect) you actually don't give a sh*t and got access to a cheap site and planning?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,091 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    "Interesting little titbit. 42% of the population of Ireland lives rurally"

    "26 percent of dwellings are one offs, not 42 percent as you claim. (I have the link to the stat, but I usually wait for smartypants"

    There are 3 adults living in my one-off dwelling.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,618 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I did not say 42% of dwellings are one offs. I said 42% of our population is classified as living rurally. So 42% of the vote is rural.

    Why would those living in one-offs want to move to a rural village and pay inflated prices for a site that they are getting free from their farming families. Chances are that paying for a site would mean they could not afford to build and would just be added to the ever increasing housing lists.?

    I Imagine if they are going to be forced out of where the choose to live, a fair number would move out of the area completely. That is not going to do a rural village much good. Even if only a small number move, then their spending will move with them. Even if none move away then their spending in the village is not going to increase. Their is no gain for the livelihood of rural villagers in that. More a risk of loss.

    Next time you are in a large urban area, park up and count how many 4x4`s are doing a school run. Eamon Ryan`s constituency would be a good place to start.

    Land Cruiser to an urban fee paying school anyone?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Is your son planning to live with you in the middle of a field forever or will he inevitably move somewhere where there's a functioning economy?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    As per the reply above, this is all about the chape site and externalised costs to others and very little to do with preferences.

    An extremely small minority of one offs actually work in the agricultural economy, so this is not about the health of that sector either.

    It's chape site and very little else to add.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,977 ✭✭✭buried


    Urbanites who somehow believe that by ultimately removing everybody off the land in rural areas, including farmers, is somehow going to benefit the climate, society, mother nature and their wallets, is living in a current dreamland. A dreamland that would turn into nightmare land pretty quickly if they somehow got what they wished for.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    I brought my umbrella to work once and it rained that same day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Where did anyone advocate removing farmers from the land?

    You and I both have been to countries where urban generated rural one offs are verboten or extremely rare.. France. Absolutely terrifying hellscape I'm sure you'd agree.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,129 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    We had cheap electricity, but privatisation put paid to that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,977 ✭✭✭buried


    If you want to remove one off housing from the entirety of the rural landscape, just like the current Minister for the Environment and Communications would like to see himself, then that has to ultimately effect the vast majority of the landowners of the rural landscape who are Agricultural farmers and are the current stewards of said land. You want them to get off the land, fair enough, but who are they going to hand it over to? Who is going to be in the position to purchase it?

    Continental Europe is in no way comparable to the island of Ireland in this matter. You are not dealing like for like, the two histories of the social stewardship of the rural landscape are in no way comparable, the sizes of the nations are in no way comparable. And no the continental landscape is not a hellscape at the current moment, but if you sold it off to multinational corporations who would just ranch the hell out of it, you wouldn't be long seeing that hellscape come to fruition, both environmentally and economically.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Run off mainly come from farms. Will mutton headed statements like that are par for the course here on boards but you're forgetting that there is an epidemic of raw sewage in coastal waters around urban centres in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    You can stop with that palaver. Nobody, and certainly not me (or the minister referenced), ever said or intimated anything about removing farmers from the land, or even preventing them from securing planning permission for their abode on their land.

    You're welcome to try to put words in someone else's mouth, but you won't get far with me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    "Mainly from farms"

    A rather woolly statement if you'll forgive me for being adverserial for a moment.

    So before you call something a mutton headed statement, break it down for me. What percentage of environmental spoilage comes from farms vs septic tanks from one offs (given EPA have 1 in 4 as a hazard to human health)

    Because cnoc (and maybe you I don't know) has thrown down his anchor that the EPA are "dipshits" in league with Greta Thunberg or something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,977 ✭✭✭buried


    Well, the said minister I referenced most certainly did cuz, he said he wants the re-introduction of wild Wolves on this tiny island. Wild Wolves. He said that. You know how many miles wild WOLVES travel over the space of 24hrs and the amount of their chosen prey they can kill in that 24hrs? You mightn't, fair enough, but that guy is the Minister for the ENVIRONMENT, so its in his remit to know, and I'm sure he does. So if he gets what he wants, he obviously doesn't want farmers and their pesky livestock taking up the room for his precious wolves, now does he? Or is it he doesn't know what he's talking about in regard to anything, including that fantastic doozie he came out with?

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Just as a little hint. The EPA have research working on 'fingerprinting' the source of ground spoilage from septic tanks Vs argicultural run offs.

    At the moment, it's difficult to discern between the two, but to think that these 1 in 4 tanks aren't spoiling the ground is quite frankly delusional. Not even to mention the remedial works are coming from the public purse because one off owners threw a strop when regulations were introduced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Yes, wild wolves equal a De-Kulakization process for sure. Get the shotguns out, they're coming for the farmers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,977 ✭✭✭buried


    They'll definitely come for their stock and thereby their livelihood, so what's the f**king difference?

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    So we have definitively concluded that the minister never called for the removal of farmers from the land. Glad we got that straight.

    This isn't my first ding dong on boards about one off housing. It's always wild and wacky where people's mouths get stuffed with outrageous stuff that was never said or inferred. This one is no different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,977 ✭✭✭buried


    Well don't worry about it man, because you won't get one off housing stopped, or farmers off the land, or anybody else who chooses to live in rural Ireland, excluding Eamon Ryan's Wolves. So p!ss into the wind all you want up in here on boards thinking it will somehow happen within your own lifetime.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,091 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    My son has aspergers and may well be unemployable in a normal organisation, so somewhere with a functioning economy is irrelevant. Anyway, he is a game developer and I'm hoping he will one day make some money at that, so he works from home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    That's the funniest thing about all the giving out, there is little to no political will to do anything about one off housing, sure they are tightening up planning a bit but they are still actively encouraging it with HTB and banks taking a gifted sited as a deposit, I can see more one offs being built with remote working and how totally f#cked the housing market is.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    The way it works on the tank inspection is if you have a nice VAT receipt for a recent emptying, so long as the poo tax is paid they don't care if the poo is dumped in the middle of the road



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