Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

OneLungDavy · 19-11-2021 10:58AM

Conan has nailed down the 8 jersey, would like to see Coombes get a run. No need for wholesale changes, Coombes, Balacoune and Sheahan would make me happy.

sydthebeat · 19-11-2021 11:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189863#Comment_118189863

obviously the point is we get sheahan and timoney or coombes to the bench for a good 30mins against a decent tier 1 side.

anyone wishing for wholesale changes is going to be mightily disappointed. This game isnt about "seeing what the kids can do" its about maintaining momentum with the already forced changes of the half back pairing, whilst integrating a small number of fringe test level players. Doris has had health issues for the last couple of years so extra precaution with him is very advisable. Its not as if he needs to prove himself again.

assuming there will be a change at centre to include henshaw (ringrose rested i hope) then that will be 5 changes from the starting team from last weekend.

19-11-2021 11:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190165#Comment_118190165

Did I say anything about seeing what the kids can do? I said Kelleher and Doris (our first choice 2 and 6) should play, not some neophyte academy players. I maintain there is absolutely nothing to be gained from starting POM or Herring.

sydthebeat · 19-11-2021 12:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190471#Comment_118190471

well there are obvious gains

the front liners are stood down for rest (kelleher has 252 mins out of 5 games so far already, doris has 328 out of 5) and that make space for inexperienced guys on the bench. if you cant see the benefit of sheahan or commbes getting 30 mins each against argentina then i cant help you
less disruption in an already forced disrupted team leads to continued momentum. Playing a host of inexperienced guys who haven't played together before is pointless at test level. small incremental additions is what e need. so again, 5 changes from the starting team from last weekend is disruption enough in my eyes.

19-11-2021 01:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190744#Comment_118190744

You 100% can't help me see the benefit of starting POM or Herring, you're dead right.

Again I just don't think this makes any sense. Mad gainz from gametime for Coombes and Sheahan but god forbid they got a start (which, again, is not something I said should happen though I'd have no problem with it), while leaving out two of our best recent performers. No sense at all, and looks from the press it's not going to happen anyway.

Clegg · 19-11-2021 01:24PM

I'm a bit disappointed that Farrell appears to be going for a mostly unchanged selection. The victories over Japan and New Zealand would have given him a lot of leeway to bring in new caps for this game.

But if it's with the view of simulating a three week run of games where rotation is minimal ala the World Cup then his policy is understandable. We've also a few relatively inexperienced players in the starting XV anyway, so giving them more experience isn't a bad thing either.

It also makes sense to keep a strong side as we're changing the half backs by necessity. As mad as it sounds Conor Murray has a lot to prove. He has to show Farrell that he has the ability to perform to the requirements of this faster game plan. It wouldn't be fair to him or Carbery if he had to play behind a relatively weaker pack. We'd learn nothing.

Still would have liked to have seen Frawley, Hume and Baird get a run out.

Clegg · 19-11-2021 01:26PM

Just on another point, I'm glad Farrell hasn't rushed back Henshaw. He was available for selection against New Zealand, but not selected as he hasn't played at all this season yet. In seasons past he would have been brought straight back in. Especially on the back of a world class season.

It's given us a chance to see what Aki and Ringrose could do together and I think they've played pretty well as a partnership.

UAEguy2020 · 19-11-2021 01:30PM

I actually don't mind the selection, giving the team another 60 minutes to gel isn't a bad thing. Hope at-least a few youngsters are on the bench, this selection should ensure a pretty routine win for Ireland at least, somewhere between 15-20 points essentially the average winning margin for Ireland in Dublin based on the last decade.

jacothelad · 19-11-2021 02:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188239#Comment_118188239

He isn't.

UAEguy2020 · 19-11-2021 02:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191181#Comment_118191181

Sorry if I gave the impression that this is some sort of discussion.

bilston · 19-11-2021 02:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191001#Comment_118191001

Yeah, hopefully the bench has some of (not necessarily all) Sheahen, O'Toole, Baird and Coombes on it. Obviously Casey and Byrne will be there anyway, unless McGrath and Carty have somehow jumped the queue.

Akrasia · 19-11-2021 02:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189907#Comment_118189907

I wouldn't rest players because they need to be rested, I'd rest them to simulate a rotated team during a knockout competition. I want to see how the team performs when when the starters are being rested or unavailable due to injury/suspension as they will need to be during the group stages of the RWC, or an extended tour

Eod100 · 19-11-2021 03:02PM

Ireland Team & Replacements (v Argentina, Autumn Nations Series, Sunday, November 21, 2:15 pm)

15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 15 caps

14. Robert Baloucoune (Ulster/Enniskillen) 1 cap

13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 35 caps

12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 52 caps

11. James Lowe (Leinster) 8 caps

10. Joey Carbery (Munster/Clontarf) 26 caps

9. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 91 caps

1. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 39 caps

2. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 15 caps

3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 51 caps

4. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 65 caps

5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 39 caps CAPTAIN

6. Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 11 caps

7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 34 caps

8. Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 22 caps

Replacements

16. Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne) 1 cap

17. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 111 caps

18. Tom O’Toole (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 1 cap

19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 24 caps

20. Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 78 caps

21. Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon) 3 caps

22. Harry Byrne (Leinster/Lansdowne) 1 cap

23. Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 95 caps

19-11-2021 03:03PM

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1461695486449049605

In: Conor Murray, Joey Carbery, Robbie Henshaw and Robert Baloucoune.

Out: Jamison Gibson-Park, Johnny Sexton, Bundee Aki and Andrew Conway.

Dan Sheehan, Tom O’Toole, Craig Casey and Harry Byrne named on the bench.

salmocab · 19-11-2021 03:06PM

Happy to see Balacoune get the start, if I was nit picking I’d say not sure in the value of Earls on the bench for this although I can see the logic.

pack is beginning to look quite settled.

arsebiscuits1 · 19-11-2021 03:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191193#Comment_118191193

This guy stole my bit!!

That was my put down on his drivel.

He stole my bit!! Where's that Moe Syzlak gif?

Dubinusa · 19-11-2021 03:13PM

I am a little disappointed tbh. Think this is really a chance to bed in Coombes and Timoney for the pack. I would like the reserve half backs to get 30 minutes. Happy for Balacoune! Like Conway, I believe he's an all round quality player.

I doubt we'll smash the pumas. I think we will win, but it could be tight!

UAEguy2020 · 19-11-2021 03:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191660#Comment_118191660

Based on what will it be tight, they have got smashed by everyone this year, if Ireland dont win by the handicap or more it would be a underwhelming result.

Dubinusa · 19-11-2021 03:18PM

Based on our half backs! They don't strike fear in anyone!

19-11-2021 03:21PM

There is definitely merit to putting that team out, albeit I think we're overestimating Argentina a bit.

As someone pointed out, there might be an element of replicating knock out rugby and one eye is firmly on the six nations. We're the first game of the tournament this year with a 2:15 Saturday kick off at home against Wales. I don't rate Wales at the moment but we'll definitely want some momentum going away to France the following week.

Most excited to see how Balacoune goes, and am hopeful Carbery puts in a credible performance. Disappointed we didn't get a look at Coombes or Frawley, Baird has been pretty inaccurate for Leinster so far this season so not sure he quite deserved a start.

19-11-2021 03:23PM

Good team. I think we'll suffer a bit with Murray in but will be happy to be wrong. Delighted Balacoune is getting a start because he is a class act imo, his defence is every bit as good as his attack.

Dunno how many of you saw the France/Argentina game the other week but it was brutally physical, pack will have a job to do but think we should do it.

arsebiscuits1 · 19-11-2021 03:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191724#Comment_118191724

Baird for sure probably needs a little bit of time to come back into form. Can't complain about his omission.

But I'm excited to see what he might bring to this system. I noted how wide we deployed James Ryan last week for some carries and he made good yards.

Ryan Baird in the wider channels with a bit of space and a head of steam is a try of the year contender in waiting!!!

19-11-2021 03:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191739#Comment_118191739

Yeah it was an entertaining arm wrestle albeit I thought France were a bit disjointed, in particular at the breakdown.

Still though, with the result last week Argentina would love to turn us over, they'll be thinking they might catch us on the hop.

TRC10 · 19-11-2021 03:29PM

5 players with 3 caps or less, for a test match against a tier 1 nation who beat NZ quite recently. And people are complaining about not "blooding new players".

Also, don't look at this game in isolation but the November window as a whole. 3 weeks ago, Kelleher, Porter and Doris weren't first choice players. So that was a changing of the guard 3 weeks ago. These guys are still learning their trade on the international stage (Porter as a LH) so they need all the minutes available.

Must love hardship · 19-11-2021 03:31PM

Yeah id like to have seen maybe 1 or 2 other changes..

The front row and back row will get a few games together with Leinster. 7 of the pack actually and 2 of the replacements will get plenty of reps together over next few months.

It would have been nice to see one of Timoney or Coombes Start and the other come off the bench.

Apart from that I'm happy enough.

Could be 12 months before a few lads get another opportunity in green now with the 6 nations up next and you'd imagine we will go fully loaded next summer v Nz.

AbusesToilets · 19-11-2021 03:35PM

Think it's a mistake starting Murray. Carbery would benefit from a fast delivery, give him time on the ball. Could bring on Murray to partner Bryne and ease some of his decision making burden. Timoney and Coombes would've been a better bench imo, disappointed for them. Hume or Larmour for Earls perhaps.

UAEguy2020 · 19-11-2021 03:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191702#Comment_118191702

And? Argentina have a 15 at 10.

UAEguy2020 · 19-11-2021 03:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191797#Comment_118191797

And I would love to be a millionaire. Except Argentina have shown nothing in 2021 to make us think they will be able to catch Ireland on the hop and if anything are more likely to lose more heavily than the handicap suggests.

terrarev · 19-11-2021 03:40PM

I'm another one who don't particularly see the benefit of big changes going into this game.

I know people are desparate to blood new players but people seem to be forgetting how new to test rugby a lot of these players are. They need experience too.

Porter is brand new to test rugby as a loose head. Ronan Kelleher is just now becoming a starter, Caelan Dorris has played very little test rugby. We're all worried about how robust Sexton is going to be so it does Joey Carbery no favours to get his tests in a second team. The entire back three are very new to test rugby. The NZ game was Keenan's first test in front of a full house.

On the bench there are 4 very inexperienced players.

I'd have liked to see Coombes and Larmour instead of POM and Earls but given the inexperience of the other replacements I can see why they are there.

19-11-2021 03:41PM

Been thinking a bit about squad development and all the accusations of being conservative (which I never agreed with even before the Japan game) but we've actually learned quite a lot from this series:

Kelleher and Doris are definitely international standard, this isn't a huge surprise but they've gone and announced themselves on a big stage
Porter is now our nailed on #1 and we've one of the best front rows in the world, similarly Conan is now our nailed on #8
JGP is pretty much without a doubt the best SH for our current playstyle and is well up to this level
James Lowe redeemed himself and is an absolute weapon
Remains to be seen how he plays but Balacoune has a chance to make himself a live option on the wing, up to him now to take it
Keenan looks like he'll be the Ireland 15 for a long long time to come

Beyond that we know Ringrose is back to himself, Aki is playing really well, we've 3 top quality second rows. Our pack is completely refreshed from 2020. The only 3 players who you'd consider first choice then and now are Furlong, Ryan and VdF (and I think VdF might be arguable, both then and now).

For me the biggest missed opportunity has been Coombes and Casey. It's a pity the former won't get any minutes at all, I know he was ill for the first two games but still. I hope Casey gets a good run on Sunday.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Ireland Team & Replacements (v Argentina, Autumn Nations Series, Sunday, November 21, 2:15 pm)