First olympic transgender athlete to compete at Tokyo 2020 MOD NOTE IN OP

suicide_circus · 03-08-2021 8:40pm

03-08-2021 8:50pm

Well that was an interesting press conference with the 3 medalists. Fair play to them for having no time for that journalist and his historic moment question.

suicide_circus · 03-08-2021 9:39pm

https://twitter.com/i/status/1422592460438519809

archfi · 03-08-2021 11:04pm

I'm surprised the question even with the framing ('historic', as in good) was even allowed to be asked - the press had been bombarded with 20 page dossiers from evangelical* activists from the corporatist LGB<insert rubbish here> establishment NGOs who were incomprehensibly given the nod to do so by the IWF.

Included in the dossiers were rants about a grassroots UK women's group Fair Play for Women - obviously 'fascistic, far-right backed blah blah blah'. And no, I am not one bit interested in 'Pink News said they were' garbage.

*Evangelical = because that's what they are - no different from crazy Christian Evangelists.

Mellor · 05-08-2021 5:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117700658#Comment_117700658

I'm not at all shocked that you can't answer.

As I said, looks like you misunderstand how the event works.

Quantum Erasure · 05-08-2021 8:03am

Tom Daly wins Gold and announces

'I feel incredibly proud to say I am a gay man and also an Olympic champion.” Gold medal winner Tom Daley says he hopes his performance will inspire young LGBT people to realise “you can achieve anything”.

The International Olympic Committee has admitted that its current guidelines for transgender athletes are not fit for purpose

In a notable shift, the IOC’s medical and science director, Dr Richard Budgett, said the science had moved on – and stressed that a new framework for sports would also focus on safety as well as fairness.

LGBT? one of these things is not like the others...

One eyed Jack · 05-08-2021 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708485#Comment_117708485

Are you referring to the fact that Tom Daley is neither lesbian, bisexual nor transgender? 😏

Seriously though, much as I think the acronym and what it claims to represent has always been nonsense, it refers to a political, social and cultural movement and their common objectives in terms of social and political representation and participation in society. Sports are just one aspect of that. Tom Daley sees himself and other people as part of the same community of people with shared goals and objectives and that’s who he’s speaking about in saying he hopes his performance will inspire young LGBT people to realise they can achieve anything, in much the same way as he was inspired by Greg Louganis -

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUhwR5Ngpg

Laurel Hubbard’s post-event interview is also worth a watch IMO -

https://youtu.be/j97PZjE1aZE

ampleforth · 05-08-2021 4:25pm

The comment at the beginning says it all -- you better accept the gender pronoun hypothesis or freedom of speech goes where it used to be in the middle ages.

I hope all transgender people will win from now on, and preferably gold throughout, so that the world can learn how ironic it is to do one thing well, and at the same time systematically disadvantage women.

Happy discussing this non-news.

Potential-Monke · 05-08-2021 9:30pm

Puts on tin-foil hat:

Maybe this was all planned, to show that transgender women don't necessarily have an advantage over biological women...

Removes tin-foil hat.

Potential-Monke · 09-08-2021 10:07pm

Jaysus, this thread went very quiet soon after she lost. Suppose the thread has run its course.

09-08-2021 10:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117730723#Comment_117730723

The media and their supporters had to go quiet when the female medalists refused to endorse their agenda.

Podge_irl · 11-08-2021 7:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117730723#Comment_117730723

A) The event in question is over

B) The IOC have admitted they were wrong

volchitsa · 11-08-2021 8:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736055#Comment_117736055

Turns out they were far worse than just wrong: they changed the rules for all sports based on a single study of eight people, none of whom were elite athletes or weight lifters and one of whom was the trans woman who led the study! What sort of science is that?

That study should have been laughed out of the IOC. Instead they all stroked their beards wisely and went ahead with this madness.

Compare that to Ross Tucker and World Rugby where they did actual research and found that reducing testosterone levels post-puberty just couldn’t even up the field sufficiently because many differences are permanent.

Everyone knows that really - that’s why none of the media took much interest in the two trans men taking part in - wait for it - women's sport.

If anyone believed that testosterone levelled the field, why didn’t those two trans men move into the men’s teams?

Ans: because they wouldn’t have had a hope in hell of being selected and everyone knows it.

So why did the IOC and the media and everyone else go along with the fiction that it was fair for women’s sports? Is it just more misogyny such as the IOC has already demonstrated in many ways in the past?

I’ve come to the conclusion that it probably is.

BattleCorp · 11-08-2021 9:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117730723#Comment_117730723

I'd feel pi55ed off if I was a female soccer player at the Olympics seeing as Canada won a gold medal in the Women's Football with a trans athlete on the team.

Rothko · 11-08-2021 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736084#Comment_117736084

I'd agree that it's mostly misogyny that's behind it. A lot of the people who pretend to "care" about women suddenly grow quiet when this type of topic comes up. It's shows them up for what they really are.

11-08-2021 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117730869#Comment_117730869

whats the story with the medalists?

11-08-2021 11:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736084#Comment_117736084

The problem now is that self identification is still on the agenda in many countries. Biden pushed it in the US.

One if his first executive orders in fact. Why so important?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-preventing-and-combating-discrimination-on-basis-of-gender-identity-or-sexual-orientation/

anyway I can’t see how any sports body in the US can act like world rugby has done. And New Zealand is about to legalise self identification.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mothballed-gender-self-id-law-back-as-a-priority-for-govt-will-pass-this-year-minister-says/CIPLGCHFKCK5OB5MOBNYTQ36RQ/

since NZ is very much a rugby country there has to be a conflict sometime with world rugby.

(of course there may be other ways for rugby organisations to stop male athletes from competing in female sports using weight criteria but it still might run afoul of the law).

Yeah_Right · 11-08-2021 12:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737097#Comment_117737097

You raise an interesting point about NZ and rugby. Weight restrictions would definitely be no use as some of the Pacific Island and Maori women are huge. Look at the kiwi shot putter Valarie Adams and former discus thrower Beatrice Faumaina.

Also the islands have a tradition of raising boys as girls going back centuries. Some of them are massive individuals and could do a lot of damage on a rugby pitch.

Podge_irl · 11-08-2021 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737097#Comment_117737097

World Rugby ruling only affects international sport. NZ are welcome to have whatever rule they want for domestic rugby but if there did happen to be a transwoman they would not be allowed play in any international event.

Podge_irl · 30-09-2021 8:41pm

https://equalityinsport.org/resources/index.html

The UK Sports Council Equality Group have now come out with a wide ranging review and ultimately fallen on the recommendation of an "open" and "female" categorisation of sport and have declared that it is basically impossible to balance inclusion and competitive fairness.

Quantum Erasure · 30-09-2021 10:59pm

haven't read it, just from the FAQ's

What did the review of published studies find?

Long-term evidence indicates that males have numerous physical advantages in sport compared with females, and this is recognised in law in ‘gender-affected sport’. Current research indicates that testosterone suppression does not negate this physical advantage over females and so cannot guarantee competitive fairness and/or safety. This information is explained further in the Guidance and in full in the documents on Scientific Research and Policy.

What did the Review Conclude?

The Review concluded that transgender inclusion, fairness and safety cannot be balanced in gender-affected sport, but rather need to be prioritised across different options available to each sport. These options are explained in the Guidance Document.

Is this for grassroots or elite?

This guidance is intended to support domestic UK sport, which we determine as any sport where there is meaningful competition at a community to national level, and not at an international or elite level, where guidance or regulations are covered by international federations or other bodies.

Potential-Monke · 08-10-2021 10:03pm

So, are we back to believing science over feelings?

Quantum Erasure · 18-11-2021 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995443#Comment_117995443

well, I certainly didn't see this coming...

Transgender women should no longer be required to reduce their testosterone levels to compete in the women’s sport category, new International Olympic Committee guidelines have suggested.

The new IOC framework, which replaces its 2015 guidelines, also concludes there should be no presumption that trans women have an automatic advantage over natal women – a controversial view that reverses the IOC’s previous position.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/16/trans-women-should-not-have-to-reduce-testosterone-say-new-ioc-guidelines

However the IOC says ultimately it is up to individual sports to decide their rules – and they can still impose restrictions on trans women entering the female category if needed to ensure fair and safe competition.

or have they just washed their hands of the situation, and passed the buck?

Podge_irl · 18-11-2021 7:23pm

Its worse than before!

chopperbyrne · 18-11-2021 8:06pm

It's absolutely passing the buck, and leaves the individual sporting bodies open to lawsuits for discrimination.

Absolutely cowardly act from the IOC. From what I've read, those with DSDs will still have to show testosterone levels below a certain threshold. Complete double standards against people who have no choice in the matter.

Just more accepted misogyny brought on by lobbyists.

It will take a trans woman winning a sport with huge viewing numbers like Wimbledon for there to finally be proper backlash against this.

18-11-2021 8:15pm

This is great for women's sport. Records are going to get smashed. Maybe some male records will be beaten by women.

Does this apply to Football also? Ronaldo could change codes and play professionally unti he is 60.

It's a smaller step from this, imo, that trans women without any surgery will be eligible to compete as women.

Podge_irl · 18-11-2021 8:28pm

It's a smaller step from this, imo, that trans women without any surgery will be eligible to compete as women.

Don't follow. This was already the case, they are now saying there needs to be absolutely zero steps beyond that unless there is definitive scientific evidence of a specific unfair advantage. Because the incontrovertible evidence that male bodied people have a massive advantage is apparently not enough.

They are telling ISFs to start from the basis of absolutely no difference between natal women and transwomen (a scientific fallacy to begin with) and only changing this if there is significant scientific evidence in their specific sport related specifically to athletes that they have an "unfair" advantage, without even determining what is unfair.

It's a disgrace.

Potential-Monke · 18-11-2021 10:46pm

Well, we had about a month of believing science had rightly won. The world never fails to amaze me.

Gatling · 18-11-2021 11:52pm

Women athletes and governing bodies should withdraw from future Olympics and encourage men to follow,

If they athletes aren't going to show up the sponsorships will be massively effected , but considering how they acted when they caught Russia's state sponsored doping system ,the only way things will change is if the female athletes withdraw from all events until this is sorted

19-11-2021 12:15am

Depressing disregard for women. Exclusion - but in the name of progressiveness so it's the good kind of exclusion.

First olympic transgender athlete to compete at Tokyo 2020 **MOD NOTE IN OP**

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First olympic transgender athlete to compete at Tokyo 2020 MOD NOTE IN OP