Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Totally agree. And I'm generally in favour of a progressive tax system but there's ideology on one hand... and there's my pocket on the other. A balance needs to be struck between progressiveness vs encouraging emigration to countries with lower marginal tax rates.

I'm well aware that the tax would have to be replaced from somewhere but with a possible populist government on the horizon, hiking the 8% rate is an easy target that won't cost too many votes. I guess what I'm saying is I'm ok paying progressive taxes but not too comfortable with how easy the USC mechanism makes it to make the tax system progressively more progressive 😄

Government encouraged institutional investors into the housing system mostly egged on by the more left wing/ socially inclusive lobby. I pointed out here and many did elsewhere that this was not necessarily a Panacea to save the crisis.

Now you want the government to renege on what it encouraged. I totally disagree with what we did but I am not stupid enough to think we can welsh on committment given to institutional investors because next time we want them they will say ''look Ireland f@@ked us over we will not be caught again''

Trying to save 4 billion out of our budget would be virtually impossible. I am awaiting the arrival of SF with bated breath and I wonder how long a left wing government made up of SF, social democrat's PBP etc will last. No matter how far left they go it will not be enough for Richard Boyad Barrett, Paul Murphy and Ruth Coppinger

They are using it to bid against young people who want to buy houses. Keeping them in the rent trap and raking in half of their rent in tax via the landlord.

It's a sick joke what this inept government implement for their policy - using taxpayers' money to bid against them driving up the price of housing, which necessitates a greater tax take on the same people to propigate this farcical feedback loop.

Someone I know was lamenting to me yesterday about this perverse situation and mentioned his sister was outbid by the council in Galway. She went €10k over her mx budget to try to snare the house but the council just bid €15k over straightaway so she had to bow out.

What surprised me is that he said she is a first time buyer starting out to trying to find a place to live. I was under the impression that the councils were not meant to bid against FTBs.

Have I got this wrong? I thought FTBs trying to house themselves saved the council having to provide housing therefore the councils aren't supposed to get in the way.

What's the point in even trying if the government are working against citizens trying not to be a burden?

Nevermind saving for a house as a young person on a working class wage and putting off starting a family until you're in a finacial postition in your mid-to-late 30s. More sensible now to not work, start having your kids early and the goverment will shove the working fools out of the way to set you up.

It hard to know seeing as how we has virtually full employment before COVID

You can pay somewhere around 10% less in income tax in California, not to mention much more favourable CGT treatment. It puts a few extra thousand in indirect taxes into perspective.

The big one is education costs in the US and Australia at present. In the US college fees start at 20-30k/year and move to 100k/year at what are not very prestigious colleges. 2nd level on in Australia has to be paid for if you want a decent school in cities. The UK is moving that way with its college loan scheme.

All of that is before you fork out for accomodation and that is not cheap in the US or Australia either.

Yes, and pay thousands for health insurance. That's just one more thing to be factored into the calculations. Between higher wages, lower taxation, and employer subsidised health insurance, it can work out much better financially. Obviously it depends on each person/family's situation. I know plenty of people who have made this exact change.

London's property market is no better - I'd argue worse as we only a few high end apartments sitting empty compared to the volume in London.

And the much higher NI contributions versus PRSI cancel much of the PAYE savings.

Conveyancing is faster in the UK, because the process is not as tied up in ridiculous legal structures (you can even self conveyance if you wish; which is not allowable here). That's the only real advantage - it doesn't make their property market less insane than ours.

That the sale isn't of the entire property. Most common case is siblings being bought out of an inheritance or a divorce situation

Unsurprising that asking rents are still rocketing when supply is at its lowest since 2006 when Daft began its reporting. Once pandemic restrictions end, I think the economic fallout from the pandemic will be significant - if cost of living (including housing costs) continue to soar, those pandemic savings are going to be depleted fairly quickly and people will start to cut their consumption. It's anyone's guess how bad things will get.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/rent-inflation-surges-to-6-8-amid-unprecedented-shortage-of-homes-1.4724045

I don't think we'll see riots but we have already seen the frustration on display in protests related to housing/squatting , the Cobblestone and Merchant's Arch marches - we're more likely to see people react at the ballots by voting "anyone but FF/FG" and any argument against this approach which tries to claim that an alternative is not the solution will be met with "it can't get any worse". The DBS by-election was an indication of what is to come; FF worst ever by-election performance and FG with zero TD in what many would describe as their "home" constituency.

The housing crisis is an emergency on par with covid to get housing available ASAP - this cannot be understated - we are at such low levels of rentals despite many workers still being remote that there is a very real risk our country cannot even support much more economic growth and company expansion. It's also a ticking timebomb for the social consequences which follows from a generation of adult babies living at home well into their 20s.

We were one of the only countries to halt construction during our extended lockdowns, a superfluous strategy with no way to prove or disprove that it 'saved lives dammit'.

The reverberations from that supply shock will be felt for years to come. Well done everyone.