Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

cnocbui

Sydney is up 30% for the year.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122735#Comment_118122735

It’s a global problem for sure. Worse in some places even than what we are experiencing

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122073#Comment_118122073

Would it be in the interest of OPEC, Russia et Al to have runaway oil prices thereby speeding up the green conversion

Or

Is it that they feel the game is up and greening will occur so milk it now while we still can

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123089#Comment_118123089

Oil prices are not rocketing because of OPEC supply prices it carbon taxes applied by the countries they are used in that is causing most of the inflation in petrol and diesel. Yes Gas is pushed by demand as it is the only alternative to nuclear with wind and solar. And if you have nuclear you do not need wind or solar.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122566#Comment_118122566

In fairness, the fact that a bubble continues to inflate is not proof that there is no bubble - in 05 and 06 prices continued to rise, but that didnt mean it was undervalued.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123365#Comment_118123365

Its mad isnt it. The world is going to have inflation caused by taxes.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123571#Comment_118123571

Over the last ten years most inflation in this country was caused either by government regulations or government of taxes.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123933#Comment_118123933

Don't worry, Mr Reeves, I can assure you that USC is only a temporary emergency measure and will be lifted shortly, just as soon as the crisis is over.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123974#Comment_118123974

Usc has nothing to do with inflation. Indirect taxes and charges cause inflation, Vat, carbon taxes, cart tax etc.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122520#Comment_118122520

2nd qtr 2014 was the bottom of the market in Limerick

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118124227#Comment_118124227

The temporary reduction in VAT rates last year are all feeding into year on year inflation which will fall away next year... Carbon taxes are the real killer as they increase the cost of anything transported and will continue to do so till there is a viable alternative for truck drivers

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123397#Comment_118123397

There is a big difference between now and 2008.

In the run up to 2008 the Household consumption of Fixed Capital (which will mainly be Residential real estate) did not correlate to the Net disposable income of households as a bubble was created due to excess credit in the market. Since the Crash of 2008 there has been a direct correlation between household spending on property and net disposable income of households.

Source: CSO - N2009 - T09. Household Income and Expenditure

Shaw8494

Hi all,

I have been offered to buy a house unexpectedly, I have a 25% deposit and the mortgage would be less that two times my salary. However I am still in my probation period of a new job, under a one year contract. Has anyone any any advice or experience where I could start to try and get a mortgage? Thank you.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127173#Comment_118127173

Grab it. Given the current state of the market, you should have no problem selling it if you are fired. You might even find another job.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118124227#Comment_118124227

All taxes have something to do with inflation. They increase the cost of things relative to diposable income, making them relatively more expensive.

Marius34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127968#Comment_118127968

I probably missed some news, what's happening with USC? What it has todo with Inflation? Increase or Decrease?

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128131#Comment_118128131

Nothing is happening with it; twas was a bit of sarcasm on my part.

Amadan Dubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128131#Comment_118128131

USC is one of the many reasons FG in particular will be turfed to the opposition benches in a few years, precisely because nothing has changed with it!

In 2016 they campaigned with a promise to abolish it - when the economic recovery was underway and things were looking up. Yet apparently we have had significant economic "growth" since 2016 but the USC is still with us. It's not something easy to define but it is just not right to claim that everything has been hunky dory and sustainable, but things like the USC and other income tax reforms have not occurred.

Like with the ESRB report mentioned above; it is an officially used metric that shows what it is intending to show but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is a practical barometer on which policies should be based - I hope no one is a regulator but for sure the best and brightest do not end up at the regulators as private practice is too lucrative which means it would not be a surprise for me that the regulators are floundering after what has happened the last few years and change for them and their way of looking at problems is happening too slowly to take meaningful action to correct the situation.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130346#Comment_118130346

Like so many other you have not got a clue about tax. Any party that thinks about abolishing USC needs there head examined. It is the most progressive tax we have. You pay virtually nothing on the first 12k( something I disagree about as well as the 13k limit where USC is refundable therefore part time workers mostly students pay no tax) on the he next 8k I think it is 4.5% and 8% after that. The wealthy hate it, you cannot avoid it, it not allowable against pension contributions, health costs, all BIK income is caught by it.

How the hell would the government replace it.

Amadan Dubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131333#Comment_118131333

Well, when you look at how public funds are spent I think it is not about replacing it but cutting the cloth to fit the services actually needing to be paid for. Broadband, children's hospital, Dáil printer, HAP, health service etc. all point to the State having too much money and not enough sense. As such, I think it is reasonable to want to reform a tax that was brought in to assist with the bailout. Perhaps a wealth tax could be brought in to replace it and an additional tax at a higher rate for incomes over €150k or something like that.

reubenreuben

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131333#Comment_118131333

Don't think you have to be that wealthy to dislike it. Its the worst type of tax.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131919#Comment_118131919

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118132004#Comment_118132004

Public funds are wasted in every economy and every country. At nearly 60 years of age I am an agnostic about waste on any government and public services. We do not want direct taxes, we do not want indirect taxes, we do not want consumption taxes, we do not want water charges.

USC brings in over 4 billion in any year. LPT bring in less than half a billion. Considering if you have less than 13k in income you do not pay USC,

On the first

12k you pay 60 euro, from

12-20k you pay 160, then from

20-70 you pay 2250 they it's

8% on everything.

20k you pay 180

30k you pay 630

40k you pay 1080

50k you pay 1530

60k you pay 1980

70k you pay 2430

Now watch what happens

80k you pay 3230

90k you pay 4030

100k you pay 4830

150k you pay 8850

200k you pay 12850

500k you pay 36850

Now do you understand why wealthy people hate it. But worse than that you cannot avoid it, you cannot use losses from a sole trader business to bring down your USC, you cannot make a pension contribution and get it refunded.

If you are a judge, or a high paid public servant you cannot work the system and avoid it, neither as banker or a CEO of a PLC can you avoid it.

People who dislike USC have not got a clue about progressive taxation. If I have any disagreement with it is that the base rate below 20k is too low. 4.5% should be the base rate to 70k

javaboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118133820#Comment_118133820

Now do you understand why wealthy people hate it

Slight correction. High income people hate it, not all wealthy people 🙂

People who dislike USC have not got a clue about progressive taxation.

I understand that it's a progressive tax however I can still hate it because it's taking almost 8% out of my income.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135222#Comment_118135222

100% agree.

Frank3.5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127942#Comment_118127942

Talk to a Mortgage broker. Market has slowed up last few weeks.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135222#Comment_118135222

No it is not taking nearly 8% out of you income unless you are earning up on a million euro

At 100k it takes less than 5%

At 200k it takes 6.4%

At 500k it takes 7.4%

Tell me how any government should replace it

Wealthy people hate it as any time you try to extract wealth from something in the form of dividends, income or even pensions ( income over 60k/ year) it kicked in.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135390#Comment_118135390

Winter, and we are heading into xmas, big surprise. Timing housing is silly, IMO. If you want or need accommodation and can afford it, buy it. I have bought 3 houses, and not once was what the market doing a consideration, other than in terms of lack of availability.

javaboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135413#Comment_118135413

Sorry, meant to say ~7%. My point still stands: it's a punitive tax rate for higher earners.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135413#Comment_118135413

Speaking just for myself it takes 8% of any overtime or extra income that I earn.

Amadan Dubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118133820#Comment_118133820

It's progressive for sure, but that is only looking at how it is applied. It ignores the "why" it was applied and also fails to put it in a proper context. For example, why not remove tax exemptions for institutional investors in property as demand is so frothy we're told; meaning that they should pay a tax for the privilege of trading in a market where there is so much demand? Why not look at how €4bn can be saved in public spending when seeing how public funds are wasted?

At a certain point, those who depend on their wages for their living won't be able to live on those wages alone as we are not seeing wages soar along with the cost of living (in particular housing), which has done and will continue to create an extra burden on public funds. This then perpetuates the problem of trying to reform and cut something like USC as it is claimed that the billions need to be made up elsewhere. I do not accept the mentality that public funds are wasted everywhere but I fear this is a collective problem with Irish people, to not have enough self-confidence and respect to expect better bang for their buck - it is why I see the country in real danger of squandering our time in the global spotlight, with our country being seen very much as a liberal, politically stable, open-for-business society - by not seeking to make the economy and all its parts (including the housing market) more sustainable for future expansion and growth this is under threat. I mean, based on incredibly low unemployment rates and phenomenal GDP the last few years, we are still looking at SF getting in to power as an anti-establishment two-fingered gesture - it's not right.