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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    We have very different expectations going into this match then. I'd be really disappointed if Ireland lose by 15 to 20 points. If they lose by that sort of margin then I'd question what progress they've made since the WC never mind 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Are we really saying Balacoune, Coombes and Sheehan are in the "potential World Class" bracket?

    Yes good players but nothing to say they are World Class.

    Of course depends on what you say is World class, as the definition seems to change between people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Not sure about the other 2, they might be but can't say for sure.

    Sheehan 100% has world-class potential. I have no hesitation in saying that. The guy is a physical monster for a hooker and I've never had question marks over his set piece the same way I did for Kelleher.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's our first choice hooker by the end of the season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,372 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I don't think we've been that good for the last 18 months. The England and Japan games have been the first signs that we may actually be building towards something.

    I think we're too early in our development cycle to really challenge NZ. It'll be a big test and will be of benefit to the team in the long term. It'll show them where to tighten up and when the tip on pass and offload is a viable option against a top class side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    What's wrong with Coombes? Hopefully it's not the China Virus.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Sexton could engage in some tsujigiri to try out his new sword.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭crossman47


    I can't believe some of the revisionism thats going on, especially in the press, since Saturday. Its as if we are coming out of the dark ages under Joe and seeing the light at last. Are memories that short? Hes the greatest coach we've ever had and brought us to heights we only dreamt of. And now its good to be emerging from that!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭joedamuss


    Oh it'll be nasty alright don't you worry about that, they'll try and cut Johnny in half and you know what they'll get away with it too because NZ always do, referees are afraid of their **** of them, remember the return match in the Aviva after we beat them for the first time, we have to stand up to them and not take their ****, it's the only thing they respect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,751 ✭✭✭ersatz


    It happens like that sometimes, the incredible highs are balanced against the view that he didn't adjust as quickly as our opposition did and a disastrous World Cup was the result. His record is incredible but he had 2 disappointing world cup campaigns so that's part of the story. There's also the view, which is unfair to Joe, that Ireland had been underperforming for years, perhaps since professionalism, and the team never displayed the kind of consistency that Munster and Leinster achieved over the same period. Joe seemed to have turned that around, and then...

    Anyway, I'm believing that one swallow makes the Summer after the Japan game and I'm fully expecting team of us to batter the ABs on Saturday. Any other result and Farrell/Sexton/Catt/POC/POM/JPG/Lowe/Keenan/Ryan/Furlong/the BRs, etc are all dead to me.😎



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,668 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Sheehan, absolutely. Coombes and Balacoune, perhaps. They have the markers, physical tools and athletic ability that would siggest it. Enough potential that it doesn't make sense to not play them in favor of known quantities like POM or Earls.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I hope Beirne get the 6 jersey. He's the best forward we have, imo. Clearly can play 2nd row and 6 at a very high level. I think Pom will start at 7. I hope not, as VDF is playing outstanding rugby. VDF will double digit in tackles easily. I would also bring Kilcoyne onto the bench. At this point , he's a better open play option than Healy. It was a fine performance this past week and I expect a close match this week. Conway is just a pleasure to watch! How can he be dropped this week?

    I do think Balacoune will be the future. He seems to be the full package! I hope he gets into the starting team v the Pumas. This week Farrell will be judged more than at any other time during his tenure.

    The performance will be crucial. We will see if the team is developing. It's nice to have the options that are available us! Zebo and Larmour waiting in the wings and prospects like Hume and Frawley in the wider squad!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    The most glaring thing for me in the reaction to what’s going on is this idea that Ireland have somehow suddenly realised the need for a second play maker. People seem to forget that when Farrell took over first he put Stockdale to FB in an attempt to get exactly what we got from Lowe at the weekend. This has been the plan all along and it’s just been a case of getting the personnel up to speed and the right personnel in place.

    How close we are to being able to rely on this against quality opposition is ultimately what we swill learn on Saturday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭Zeugnis


    I'd be shocked if Herring starts, he's competing with Sheehan for the bench spot. Kelleher is way too good around the pitch. Having said that, Herring's darts are more consistent and the connection with Henderson (should he start instead of Ryan) has value, I just don't think the value of that exceeds what RK brings, it's crazy too think how young he is, and Ireland fans are blessed that we can look forward to the RK v Sheehan tussle for the next decade.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,495 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Barron might have something to say on that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Schmidt had two poor world cups. He had a great 6 Nations record and had us playing brilliantly against the All Blacks (except when it really mattered) but heights we only dreamed of is a bit Gerry Thornley. He benefited hugely from being around during the worst period in French Rugby in 50 years. Throughout his 6 years in charge France only finished 3rd once and finished 4th or 5th every other year. One of the two major European powers were essentially dormant during his spell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    I like the way history gets changed

    Schmidt had one poor WC. 2015 was an injury disaster and no country could have survived the loss of our top players for the Qtr's.

    The rest is just rubbish to be honest. He was Irelands most successful manager and trying to make excuses why he won so many trophies is very very strange behaviour. His record in Irish rugby with Leinster and Ireland proves what a quality manager he was, I also expect he will be in with a shout next time to take over NZ rugby.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    As Blue4u mentions, I'd contend he had one poor RWC; we lost arguably our 5 most important players for the QF. And you're downplaying his achievements due to a poor France, but no other coach previously achieved the following either. You can't pin these on a poor France:

    • Ranked #1 in the world
    • Two test victories vs the All Blacks
    • A test win in SA
    • A first series win in Australia in over 40 years




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Schmidt had 6 games against tier one teams in the World Cup and finished 3 and 3. He beat Scotland, Italy and France and lost to New Zealand, Argentina and Japan. We lost our 3 games by an average of 20 points. Its a pretty poor return.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    By a significant distance Joe was Ireland's best ever coach. Also an absolute gentleman when you met him.

    I wish him the best of luck in his new role. I have yet to see an Irish coach leave the job without the bandwagon jumping around telling everyone how terrible a coach they are.

    He is gone now since 2019, not sure what relevance it has to the current coaching ticket or why we need to continue to question his results. His win ratio of 72.37% should tell it's own story



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,373 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    every coaches tenure ultimately ends in failure, unless you go out on a slab.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    look i'm somewhat in agreement. i think we need to forget about cycles and the cycle of hype we inadvertently generate. another hype, then wc flop i think could be catastrophic for us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭Reps4jesus


    They are staying in the Conrad on Earlsfort Terrace



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,977 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Ireland have come a long way from Joe Schmidt selecting 37 year old Best as his starting hooker, and captain, at the last WC to having the options of Kelleher 25, Sheehan 24, Herring 33 or maybe Stewart 21 by the next WC.

    Seems daft that Farrell is repeating the same mistakes this Nov - Captain Sexton 38, Murray 34, Earls 35/36 at WC

    Was lovely to see Johnny have his 100th cap moment v Japan. But he could have had it v Argentina.

    Anyway! Ireland are touring NZ this summer. Maybe then??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭TRC10


    He could give someone else the captaincy but it wouldn't change the fact that Sexton is the leader in that group.

    If he gave say Ryan the captaincy he'd only be "captain" in name. A bit like when Heaslip was given the captaincy but everyone knew Drico was still the captain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    I was just listening to podcast and they mentioned about ROG coming off the bench for his 100th cap, seemingly he wrote article about ti and he seen it as an insult. So did players in NZ. I would agree and he should have started. I can't remember the game but I was probably at it and Sexton started.

    During this series Sexton had to start for his 100th cap so that was the Japan game, unfortunately none of the other 10s have stepped up to be the starting 10 v Japan or NZ. Taking Sexton out of both games and only starting v Argentina would be incredible and I would say bad management.

    People seem to be obsessed with the age of Sexton but when Brad Thorn came over to Leinster when he was 36/37 everyone raved about how great he was, also he went on to play another 2-3 season in the Premiership.

    In regards to Best, well the other options Ireland had really had dropped off, Best was playing well and then his performances dropped off a cliff along with the team, if Schmidt had Kelleher & Sheehan available for the WC do you think he would have stuck with Best? no chance. Those players didn't become available till after the WC

    Ireland have already started to move away from Murray and I would also suggest Earls as well.

    I am not overly worried about age for the WC, what we just need is players who are in form and a team which is playing well, something which didn't happen at the last WC.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,373 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    if sexton plays at the RWC 2023 he will be a full 2 years younger than the oldest player even to appear at a RWC



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,977 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    True. And even when Best was captain Sexton was the leader of the group. But a least Best could take the burden of captaincy (ref etc) and also captain the forwards and Sexton the backs.

    Ideally I wouldn't have had Sexton in the Autumn squad at all. Just to give the others game time and ownership. But even by selecting him Farrell could have given captaincy to Ryan. Started Carbery (v Jap and NZ) and given Sexton his moment v Argentina.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    How many of the top 100 oldest would be Tier 1 10's tho, I wonder Syd? I might have a look at this later on if I get a chance.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭TRC10


    People seem to be obsessed with the age of Sexton but when Brad Thorn came over to Leinster when he was 36/37 everyone raved about how great he was, also he went on to play another 2-3 season in the Premiership.

    You cannot seriously compare 2nd rows with out halves. The 2 positions couldn't be more different.

    Locks playing at a high level deep into their 30s is quite a regular occurrence (Thorn, Matfield, Shaw)

    Out Halves playing at the top level at 38 is unheard of. The oldest out half in 6N history is Diego Dominguez and he was 36.

    Sexton is playing great right now and long may that continue and I've no issue with him being our 10 as long as he's the best. But the idea that he'll be our 10 at the RWC is fanciful stuff.



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