Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Sorry, Awec - basically asking the same question.

Well maybe a I am delusional but honestly stuffing your team with Saffers and whoever you can poach from Leinster just to desperately cling onto the glory days when Munster for example were a champion team in Europe is the problem and is the root cause of the malaise.

If the decisions had been made to keep and nearly exclusively just push young local players through things could be very different.

I know it's hard to accept but the blame for where things are currently lie entirely with those provinces.

Honestly how can you say the talent isn't there, we just don't know that. It is a crazy statement considering what has happened.

And to defend Lowe is a lot more than the man himself has ever done.

I'm not defending him, I'm pointing out your error. Lowe and Baloucoune play different positions, it was Conway who kept Baloucoune out.

“If the decisions had been made to keep and nearly exclusively just push young local players through things could be very different.”

“We will never know how many players didn't get a chance to improve because of the Cloete's, Kleyn's etc etc”

This stuff is just bullshit tbh.

Give us names then? Who are these academy prospects that should’ve been given opportunities over the last decade that could’ve made things very different for Munster or Ulster? If they were as good as you are making out, they presumably went on to make a name for themselves elsewhere, so who are they exactly?

The reality is the talent wasn’t there.

Why wasn’t the talent there is an altogether different question, but it’s ridiculous to just pretend the talent was there when it very obviously wasn’t.

Point is we don't know because of the policies in place. No one knows as it wasn't allowed to happened.

You have to give young players a shot to find out if they are good enough. So in Munsters case they end up signing and importing players which guarantees that youngsters never get the gametime and so it continues. Much the same in Ulster. I can't give you a load of names as they don't exist because that is exactly my point, they were never allowed to develop. Players have to develop and you have to allow them to develop and it takes time and many will fail.

I remember the first time I saw Ross Byrne play and I thought he was absolute pants but he was given more chances and has become a super player but it took time and investment. If we follow the Munster model he wouldn't have had a chance.....

This is rapidly becoming a pointless discussion as there is a total unwillingness to accept that Munster and Ulster are largely to blame for their own problems and that is fundamentally what the issue is.

And if we all agree to accept that Ulster and Munster haven't had any local talent at all who is to blame for that ? Well perhaps it might be Munster and Ulster failing in local development structures ??

Yes perhaps Leinster are no better and have just got lucky with the money being pumped into the Dublin schools. Perhaps but also maybe they have stuck to always trying to play local players and being patient as they develop. Take Ross Byrne.....

We can bat this around forever but sometimes people need to look inwards and stop jealousy looking at Leinster. Leinster and what they have done is a good thing.

How about focusing energy on what can be done to improve rather than getting out the cheque book and buying in another Saffer etc just to try and stay in top flight Euro rugby.

Leinster for several reasons are miles ahead, the other provinces need to step up. Read what POC said today and it basically is exactly that........

You realize that Leinster have generally always had the same amount of NIQ’s as Ulster and Munster?

Repeat, who cares...Leinster are producing stacks of Irish players...problem isn't how many NIQS Leinster have. Ulster and Munster regularly field teams with 7-10 imports be they NIQS or Leinster imports etc etc, they all stop local talent coming through...

Point is we don't know as they have all these imports in the way.

I know why they are doing it as Munster for example can't countenance finish mid table in the league or even lower and not qualifiying for Europe so they will keep importing rather than throwing caution to the wind and developing talent.

Don't get me wrong I know this won't change but let's not try to pretend what the issue is here.

Look I honestly believe Ulster and Munster have been very poor in developing local players. Leinster hasn't helped in a way because they have been so strong that the provincial rivalry gets in the way and there is an attempt to compete rather than accepting that an entire rebuild in philosophy is required. I get it.....and do I want to see a seachange yes I do........as longterm it is the only fix.

Continuing along the current path of buying in talent and Leinster castoffs is never going to work even if it keeps performances tolerable.

Problems which have been years in the making take time to unwind. Perhaps it can happen. I hope so.

I always park in the Clayton Ballsbridge...but yes RDS good too....

Sure may as well be in the RDS considering its Leinster v Japan !!

I think Munster are making some inroads. They promoted a gaggle this season. But, the intake into the academy was very small. Off the recent promotions from Munster, I think Ahern and Hodnett have the brightest future. That is not including Casey, who I think will be a 50 cap international.

Connacht have been served very well with imports from near and far! Aungier; Duggan and Dowling look to be good players.they hit the jackpot with Hansen! The domestic production has suffered from an assortment of issues. Injury: SOB 2, Gallagher and Claffey. All retired for medical reasons. Conan O Donnell wasn't good enough and neither was the big lad from irr! Can't remember his name.

Ulster have brought in O'Toole and O'Sullivan, both good players. They struggle with the forwards and produce gold in the backs.

The lads looking to move away from Leinster, or those who do not make the academy and go elsewhere, fair play. There's quite a few Leinstet players playing well for the other provinces.

Maybe the IRFU should identify the top 30 prospects and have them perform at each of the provinces training facilities. There might be interest in moving and playing rugby elsewhere.