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Mo money mo problems

  • 04-11-2021 03:03PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3


    I'm sorry for the length of this.

    I'm married 5 years and in a relationship with my husband 10. In the beginning of our relationship he earned more money than me. We have a joint account that we both pay into every month for household stuff (mortgage, family car, bills, etc). Everything was split 50/50. When I was struggling with money I asked could he contribute more to the household fund and he said no, that everything should be 50/50. I said fine but was quite upset at the time.

    Roll on a few years. I earn significantly more money than him. I was in a financial position to put an extra 10k into the joint account for any emergencies.

    I never looked at the joint account because i presumed that it had plenty of money in it. My card was declined in Aldi for 35e. I have never been so embarrassed in my life.

    I logged onto the account expecting to see a mistake but to my horror saw that the account was empty. Since covid hit he lost his commission, he can pay his 50% for the house but it would leave him with no money so he just decided, without telling me, that he wasn't going to pay the full amount. He left the account short about 500e every month. As well as this, he used the joint account on frivolous expenses. He would 'treat' me to a meal, or takeaway, but it would be coming from the joint account. If it was ever the opposite way round I would always use my own money. I had no idea he was using the joint account.

    If it was anyone else telling me this and seeing the amounts of money that came out of the account I would say ding ding ding, gambling problem, but it's not. I have seen pretty much every package that came through the door for him. New runners every few weeks, new clothes, a playstation etc.

    For the last 6 months i have been paying 70% of the amount needed for the household account. I am left with 100e at the end of the month for myself and i can no longer contribute to my savings. I've had to dip into my savings for anything myself or the kids need (dancing, gymnastics etc, all paid by me now) He still is keeping money for himself and it's way more than 100e because he's still getting food etc, going out for drinks. And still, at the end of the month my card gets declined because he hasn't stopped using the household account.

    This all came to a head lsat week when he suggested we 'treat ourselves to dinner on Saturday night' and i lost it with him asking him where he thinks the money will come from.

    At this point now I don't know what to do. I have a bit of savings that I could use but i don't want to. I feel like if i put more money into the household account he will just keep spending it. I was considering reporting his card as stolen because there seems to be nothing i say that will stop him using the account.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,389 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    This is a toughy isn't it.

    Financial arrangements between couples can be such a minefield.

    If it were me, I'd do up a spreadsheet, of all his expenditure and missed payments.

    Sit down calmly and say this is what you owe the joint account and take it from there.

    The next steps really depend on his reaction. To me it's the betrayal of trust and him just deciding he wasn't contributing to the running of the household without even a cursory conversation. He put his wants and needs ahead of everyone else. That would be my issue rather than the money per se.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    No easy answer as you know your husband better than us, but I think the above from Princess Calla is good advice . Sit down, remind him of the old situation and how he reacted to your previous cash-strapped situation. Then come up with a plan - even if it is that you pay a little more until the commission starts to come in again and you will back-date it if everything must be kept 50/50.

    But best of luck with it OP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,413 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Cancel cards on the joint account. Use the account only for direct debits/standing orders. For household spending such as shopping get Revolut for both of you and split any bills by asking for or sending half depending on who is paying. Your OH is going to have to come to a realization that he doesn't have the luxury of taking advantage of the spare cash you have. This way it's enforced.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,555 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    You added €10k to the joint account. How much do you think should have been in it at that point? How long ago was that?

    Because I know you say it's not gambling just frivolous spending but you must be eating a hell of a lot of takeaways and he must be buying a hell of a lot of runners to work through that sort of cash. You say this has started since Covid. So how much exactly do you estimate he has taken from the account in the past 18/20 months?

    I don't think this is a time for gently discussing. I think this is a time to ask him where the hell thousands of euros have gone.

    I think you might need to reconsider the gambling angle. He may also have credit cards and bank loans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭DullSpark


    Some people can be real weird when it comes to money. I have a joint account with my other half and it does stress me when she doesn't contribute but would just keep biting my tongue. I have a few friends who are odd with money, e.g. ask you for a loan so they don't have to a break a note in their pocket.

    You got to call this guy out on it and hope he changes his ways and say how you dug deep and sacrificed when you were struggling



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    This must be the third of fourth thread I've read in as many days, and I'm starting to think its me that wrong.

    When you get married - you are now a team / unit. This idea of silo-ing off money into personal accounts that your partner doesn't know about is a really odd concept to me. I know how much my wife makes, and shes the same with me, we've a couple of accounts together - one current for daily spending, one for savings / holidays and one for the big things like utilities and mortgage.

    but it all goes into the one pool, and is divvied up.

    people need to start asking themselves - why are you (as a couple) effectively hiding finances from your spouse? - and I emphasize spouse, because I think unless you're legally married, theres certainly an element of prudence in having independent finances.

    its a communication issue more than anything else - all these financial squabbles would be a lot easier averted if people simply talked it out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 throwaway2021throw


    It’s definitely not gambling. I can see where the money was spent and have added pretty much everything up and it comes to near enough 10k 😕 every month 5k should go into the account. The account should have had a minimum of 10k it and a max of 15k.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 throwaway2021throw


    That’s all well and good to say now. I suggested we pool our money and he said no. Now he would 100% be open to it and he would spend it all. I would be in a position then where I wouldn’t be able to pay for my kids activities, or grocery shopping (which I’ve had to use my own money for). And I’m really glad we didn’t pool our money now after seeing what he did with 10k in less than a year. If he had access to the rest of my savings there would be no savings.

    its like he sees the balance as a target he has to get to zero.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    You need trust for joint accounts. I've had one with fiancé for a few years. It covers household stuff only. Direct debits and standing orders mainly. Mortgage, bills, food shopping, and upgrades/repairs. We each put 1/4 of our take home into it and have 3/4 for ourselves. The 1/4 is enough to cover everything and the 3/4 leaves us with plenty of independence. Bit left over for small joint savings. I pay for my car, she pays for hers. When we go out we just wing it, no plan. I pay most of the time though, don't mind. We are both OK with money though.

    Have workmates who are fairly well paid but useless with money, always saying I'll have to raid the mortgage account as they call it. No idea how much resentment it causes, but I'd say it defo causes some.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,042 ✭✭✭✭fits


    How have you not noticed? Most people would keep an eye on their accounts. I log in every couple of days. 10 k is a lot to disappear into thin air.


    You both need to sit down, catalogue all the outgoings and do up a budget.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    What a scumbag he sounds like!

    Treating you to a dinner that you paid for!!

    Some neck...

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Could be that he was buying those things to make himself feel better. Losing financial independence can be pretty destroying to the best of us. Not making excuses for him, what he did was wrong, but maybe there's more to it than just wanting to buy stuff.

    That being said, he has clearly broken your trust. How you fix that, I'm afraid I can't offer any suggestions, thats between you both. I will say, however, that the resolution needs to be done in partnership and with respect between both sides to avoid resentment because that resentment will destroy a relationship.

    Take your time, sit down and discuss what happened, why it happened and how you can both come up with solutions to make sure things like this don't happen again. He's your partner in life, he made a bad mistake and he should work hard to fix it but at the end of the day, it is a very fixable problem

    Regarding the pooled account thing, I do the same with my partner, we both get our salaries into our personal accounts, and we send 80% to the joint account. We've worked out our expenses so that 40% of what goes in covers all costs, 50% is diverted to a savings account, and 10% remains as a buffer each month and this buffer just keeps building and acts as our emergency fund. We both keep an eye on our accounts and have made adjustments to things as jobs, circumstances change.

    The remaining 20% of our salaries is ours to do with as we please. As its not a huge amount, we make the most of it and try to stretch it e.g. I sold the car when I started WFH and the wife moved to WFH once she saw the savings too so there's way to make the same amount of money work harder for you rather than you working harder for your money.....if that makes sense



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    If it's a savings account then stop treating like a blood joint account. Why is their easily accessible cards ? Setup a proper savings account and this won't happen. The end . He sounds like a spanner chancing his arm. If the arm is cut off then the spending stops.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭griffin100


    Where do the costs of rearing your kids come from and how much salary should each person put in to that fund?


    I find your approach really bizarre, not having a go, it’s just alien to me. My wife and I have had a joint account since before we were married and 100% of our salary goes into it and everything is paid from that. If either of us need to spend for clothes, etc we just do. Larger purchases that run into the hundreds are generally discussed beforehand but most spending is at our own discretion. I suppose it’s a matter of trust.


    We also agree the amount that leaves that account every month for a savings account for which we have no cards (we review the amount every few months).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭CalisGirl


    What was his reaction when you mentioned it to him on the Saturday night? Did he give any kind of justification?

    I think there's no way around it but to sit down with him to go through the bank statements and the calculations showing how much he owes the joint account.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,101 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I'm a little baffled, you say the account should have €10 - €15k in it but its empty when you logged in to check, unless I miss understand. I'd actually be alarmed not worried, this is more than frivolous, it's shocking.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    Tbh, like some other posters I find aspects of this quite bizarre. The amounts of money involved - €10k-€15k just gone. And also not having complete transparency with your finances as a married couple. And there is a difference between married and unmarried here.

    Maybe I am old-fashioned but once my Husband and I got engaged (a long time ago) we sat down and went through our finances together. Incomes, savings etc. There have been no secrets since. We set up a Joint Savings Account at that point in order to save for our house. We completely pooled our money only after we were married. All income goes into the Joint Current Account and all direct debits come out of that. We have Joint Savings and separate Savings with CU too. All large purchases are discussed and agreed. Maybe it helps that we have a similar attitude to money, spending priorities, savings etc. Maybe it also helps that we don't have the luxury of being able to afford much in the way of personal discretionary spending. I am not saying that all couples should pool their finances but transparency and honesty are extremely important.

    OP- you need to sit down with your Husband and have a proper calm honest discussion on your current financial position and make a plan as to where you both go from here. If that can't be agreed then I think you have a big problem on your hands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    OP - your husband sounds like an asshole.

    when he wouldn’t contribute more than 50% to make up for your less income it was alarm bells for me. You’re supposed to be a team.

    But then spending all the money without telling you, this sounds like you’re dealing with a spoilt teenager and I’m not sure how much you can change someone who acts so selfishly.

    I have earned more than my partner since the beginning of our relationship.

    we saved for our mortgage and bought a house with me contributing a bit more, it was also my idea to save and buy a house but I actually don’t care. Our money is our money, her being broke is me being broke.

    I supported everything when she was jobless and paid the mortgage by myself while putting a small bit into Credit union only lasted for like 4 months if even. It wasn’t easy either but this is what you do for each other.

    she would do anything for me in the same sense. We decided to make everything easier we just kept 1 bank account. All our money now goes into that now. I have a bit more of a say with our money but it’s not because I’m earning more its because I track our spending and outgoings and tbh I actually enjoy managing our budget in a weird way.

    But to be honest neither of us buy a whole lot for ourselves we buy stuff for the house and we probably feel we shouldn’t be spending money on ourselves because we were so strict when saving for a house it’s now ingrained into us.

    Both our wages are basically seen as 1 big salary. We can both withdraw to Revolut if we want not that we ever do.

    We have an extreme level of trust and I suppose what is sad is that this is hard to find nowadays and we don’t even have kids yet but we are engaged and kids are planned for future. Maybe we’re the crazy ones. People are so selfish now. But I can see why with people like your husband going around.

    I hope that doesnt sound like I’m gloating as I’m not. I am just pretty shocked that people can be so selfish in a relationship with the person they love. What’s the point of life if you’re going to live that way.

    Get out of there, that split everything 50/50 rule is boll0x imo. What happens when your balance is at 0 and his at 20k

    are you turfed to the streets? Come off it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭Fian


    This seems to be the modern way, but tbh it is very strange to me. For me spouses are a partnership, there is no "my money" or "her money" - only "our money" and that "our" includes the kids too, though obviously they don't get to spend it on anything they choose.


    When we were engaged I was still qualifying and earning essentially nothing. My wife supported me. She took a career break to look after our kids when they were young, then went job sharing for a while (so that i was earning maybe 4 times her income for that period) and now is back full time but in a less well paid job than mine, hardly surprising since she has dedicated so much of her focus to our kids.


    All this worked pretty seamlessly from a financial point of view because throughout we have only ever had a joint account, we don't have separate accounts in our own names. similarly with the credit card, we have a card each on a single account. That get's debited out of our joint account every month. There is no issue with who pays for what because the groceries, mortgage, taxes, utility bills, holidays, birthday presents, university fees and all discretionary spending all come from the same source - "our money". Honestly I think this is a much better way to organise things in a marriage than if we were trying to keep our own seperate money as well.


    It does mean that when, e.g., I wanted to spend a few thousand on a new bike I had to discuss it with my wife first, I couldn't just decide to go and do it myself without mentioning it. Similarly when she wanted to buy a second car she had to raise it and we had to discuss it and agree. But this is definitely a better way to organise things imo, despite the fact that neither of us have absolute autonomy to spend money as we wish, I mean for larger amounts -obviously it is not a case of having to agree whether we can go out for a meal or anything.


    I am always surprised when I realise most people organise things more separately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,605 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    I wouldn't be so sure, as a gambler you could win all that in a few days, buy a dozen pairs of runners, get your betting account up to 50k and lose everything a few days later.

    If he was particularly cute he would know to keep such spending in line with what you expect to see gone out of the account...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    You have put this much better than I and it largely describes our financial set up too. The only reason we have separate CU Accounts is our CU don't offer Joint.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭Mr Burny


    Withhold sexy time until he pays up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    It’s kind of irrelevant what he spends the money on, though I agree that there is a chance of additional owed amounts if he does gamble.

    It sounds like your husband never adjusted his life style when his circumstances changed, and kept spending like he used to by simply using your money. It goes without saying that this is unacceptable, but I wonder why you didn’t immediately put an end to it when you realised what was going on.

    I am not sure if you realise that you are enabling his lifestyle by having disposable funds readily available in the shared account? This is not a healthy or normal spending pattern, and if he can’t/ won’t stop it you need to take action.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    He’s after blowing over €10,000 and stopped contributing to the family if I’m reading it right.

    some people are terrible with money, but this is unacceptable. I think you should get an explanation as to where the money is gone and he needs to give an undertaking this won’t happen again.


    He’s buying play stations and runners while not paying his share of the bills, it does sound terribly immature.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭bullpost


    Yep we are the same. I struggle to see how it can work any other way without causing the type of problems such as the OP is experiencing. However I am of a certain "vintage" so things may work differently now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,798 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Your husband sounds like a chancer, a moocher and a miser.


    But then again, you married him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    I once read a book on fears. An author was a consultant in many ransom cases. So whenever he interviewed people, he always looked for a "satellite" as he called it. When someone offered an unnecessary information, like not involved name or reason, it was usually a subconscious of them saying, who did it or why it was done. Our guts feelings are often right.

    For me in OP's post such satellite was gambling, so I wouldn't rule it out so quick...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭boardlady


    I equally find your set up strange. Again, maybe a generational thing. I have always 'earned' less than my husband outside the home. But I am a better cook and do all that side of things. Since we had the kids, I went part time and now earn even less. However, he is self-employed and I do all his paperwork and a lot of admin work on my days at home and so we consider this to even things out. We have one business account - joint, one 'mortgage' account - joint (although only he pays into it and then we each have personal accounts but each pay for different bills out of them. It works out roughly even and we don't sweat the little differences. Neither of us are big personal spenders and the big spends get discussed. A relationship, or a marriage, are partnerships, and a partnership should include the finances. If each party is keeping track of every small penny then it is exhausting. I don't know how you can overcome this breach of trust, but I would suggest you change the system too at the same time as you address the trust. Best of luck either way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭lalababa


    From the rural area I grew up and this is 30 years ago. Usually twas the man that did the earning and the woman held the purse....in general....

    And If the man stepped out of line....he wouldn't get his hole.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,656 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    I'm not sure whether all this discussion of how weird people find other people's financial arrangements is remotely helpful or even relevant to the OP.

    OP, the fact of the matter is that your husband has committed a HUGE act of betrayal on you and the entire family. If I were in your shoes I'd be questioning whether I could ever get past that, tbh. The fact that he doesn't seem even remotely contrite is extremely concerning too, as it wouldn't give me even an iota of confidence that he won't do it again.

    You need to have a SERIOUS sit down with him and find out what is actually going on in his head that he thinks this is no big deal.



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