Cycling Ireland AGM 2021

Morris Garren · 02-11-2021 8:07pm #1

The annual Shoutingfest that used to be the CI AGM returns to an in-person format this year, set for Tralee this Saturday. It has been slightly less contentious in recent years if I am to believe the reports. Some interesting suggestions concerning the calendar, such as the confining National League Road events to One-Day only and moving the Women's Masters events to join the Men's weekend, will provoke debate. Both of these seem sensible, but whether they get agreement is another matter.

Also, an interesting call to define exactly what a 'leisure cyclist' is under CI rules; I cycled to my mother's house with a hangover last weekend, and it sure was leisurely... but I'm interested in a cyclo-cross event in 2 weeks time... so what does that make me???

I hear grenades ready to launch...

NamelessPhil · 03-11-2021 12:18am

"Leisure cyclists" are the vast majority of Cycling Ireland members, circa 16,000 members. They pay an annual fee to Cycling Ireland but there is no definition anywhere in CI's official documents of who or what is a leisure cyclist. At present even 1200km Audax rides come under the remit of "leisure events", but that's a discussion for another day.*

*Full disclosure I'm a member of the Leisure Commission and Audax Ireland. Any views expressed are my personal opinion.

CramCycle · 03-11-2021 12:52am

I think the leisure cyclist definition is a good idea and something that should be defined considering it is the majority of the membership.

CramCycle · 03-11-2021 1:11am

As for the other motions:

1. I understand why the rule is there but the truth of the matter is that some A1 riders are not that committed and you are basically taking a race from them, I myself restrict my races to a very small geographical area due to family and cost and while A3s don't suffer this issue I would be unhappy if they did.

2. The Track Commission know more than me and it seems sensible

3. From the Track Commission sounds fair and I like the idea that money can't buy your kids more than other kids

4. Does this simply mean that womens masters races are on the same day as mens rather than on the elite weekend. Can't see the issue but I haven't looked at the original reg table

5. I'd agree with this although I forgot to put in my motion to ban monetary prizes in A4, next year but this seems fair and equitable.

6. In reality it makes no real difference but it is nice that they recognise that a safeguarding officer doesn't just deal with youths.

7. Not sure of the point of this one, does it make any point since the provincial committees can dictate rules as they see fit under the current guidelines

8. Makes sense

Recommendations.

1. Agreed

2. Makes sense from a legal and ethical perspective (leisure cyclists being the majority)

3. I disagree, I would be of the opinion that if there is a championship to be had, it should be run regardless of entries and CI should cover the loss to any club who steps up to run it. Doing this makes it a financial thing, and robbing someone of a title just because there were not enough people able to compete on the day seems grossly unfair and we all know most of those that get dropped are unlikely to come back. Have a discussion instead with the relevant commissions to assess which ones should be kept, and then have a motion next year to keep or discard ones that are not deemed viable and if they are voted to be kept, they must be run regardless of entries.

mamax · 03-11-2021 3:57pm

I know quite a few ex Leisure club members (from a few clubs) that are done with CI because of the increases to the leisure membership over the past few years, they now pay 25€ to Triathalon Ireland for basically the same cover.

I know all the arguments for/against so lets not go off topic but I for one would like to see them drop the leisure membership down to 30€, it would help clubs to reclaim their ex members.

NamelessPhil · 03-11-2021 5:36pm

The leisure membership fee has been €50 for the last three years. The €10 for personal accident insurance was an optional add on last year.

I'd disagree the TI covers the same as CI insurance. That €25 TI membership does not cover training on your own.

https://www.triathlonireland.com/get-involved/triathlon-ireland-faqs/faq-s-triathlon-ireland-insurance/

cletus · 03-11-2021 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113855#Comment_118113855

That in itself makes no sense. Surely a leisure cyclist is one that's not competing. When are they training, so, and for what

buffalo · 03-11-2021 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118114315#Comment_118114315

You can train for the Wicklow 100/200, which is not a competitive event (at least, not officially ;) ).

cletus · 03-11-2021 9:03pm

So what's the other type of membership for CI called, for cyclists who compete?

NamelessPhil · 03-11-2021 9:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118114315#Comment_118114315

I refer you to my first post on this thread. I think doing a 1200km Audax would need just a little bit of "training" don't you?

The Cycling Ireland website has a whole section on the various types of licence/membership competitive and non-competitive.

https://www.cyclingireland.ie/get-involved/membership/

mamax · 03-11-2021 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113855#Comment_118113855

Regardless of that our club and many other clubs have lost leisure members over the last few years due to the rising cost of leisure membership

A few ex members have said they have personal accident cover so don't need the CI membership

Has anyone got the leisure prices for the last 10 years just to see how it has risen ?

edit: that extra tenner last year was a kick in the hole as well when it was included in the price previously, the bottom line is lots of people see no benefit in having it they can cycle without it anytime they want they only get it to A) cycle with a club or B) to be loyal to a club

cletus · 03-11-2021 10:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118115185#Comment_118115185

Of course it would. I would counter, though, that if you're training for, and taking part in, an organised 1200km event, you're probably no longer a "leisure cyclist"

Morris Garren · 03-11-2021 10:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118115185#Comment_118115185

I have nothing but admiration for the Audax riders, done very few such events myself but something very genuine about their cycling efforts that suggests something beyond 'leisure'... thus there is perhaps a need to recognise the somewhat competitive nature of the discipline, as distinct from road racing etc; there is a growth in interest in 'Endurance' cycling events generally in Ireland (Everesting/Mondello24/ROR) which should not be conflated with leisurely cycling on a weekend.

But perhaps the CI Leisure Commission are just reminding everyone that they actually exist; for a number of years they have floated somewhere in the ether, but do seem like a lobby group still looking for some useful purpose. Forgive me if I have little idea what they do or what aims they actually have

saccades · 04-11-2021 8:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110515#Comment_118110515

Stupid cash cow to be fleeced.

Didn't bother reading the last report but previously the churn/retention rates were shocking. Total numbers are pathetic (and dropped as I recall) in the middle of a cycling boom.

I'm a leisure cyclist as there have been no races for two years, I only got a limited (off road) license previously when a club league club was forced to go official with coillte. When doing the NPS I used to get a day license as I'd marshall the club one and only mainly do the Dublin races. I just don't see the value for money for me, certainly bumping up the fees after covid felt like a cash grab.

When I look at the cover offered, I get more as a freebie with my house insurance.

All my dealings with CI have been ****, the only reason I don't sack it off altogether is... I dunno really, I like the occasional spin with club mates I guess.

And this is from someone who has 7 bikes and loves a spin, I'm not interested in racing the stuff CI supports so surely I should be their prime leisure cyclist material?

ednwireland · 04-11-2021 8:42am

wont be there . but would be if it was more central.

I suspect if you do put a definition on leisure cyclists it wont work because of so much crossover.

i see British cycling federation has lost 25 % of its income in 2021 so CI must be in a similar position. so wholesale membership hikes ?

fat bloke · 04-11-2021 11:11am

Is there not a "non-competion" category or something no?

I don't do any racing but every single time I put leg over a bike, as far as I'm concerned I'm "training". There's nothing "leisurely" about it.

Rechuchote · 04-11-2021 5:55pm

Wouldn't the difference be between "functional cyclist" (commuter, shopper, go-for-a-spin type) and "sport cyclist" who either races or cycles in competition with themselves?

I'd suspect that the functional cyclists would be the ones looking for safe, protected and separated cycle lanes, and would be very happy that more people cycle for transport and enjoyment.

cletus · 04-11-2021 6:45pm

But there are also cyclists who don't cycle for transport, or to compete with others or themselves. They literally cycle for leisure. Distance, speed, watts, mean nothing to them.

I suspect that the problems with these classifications is that very often these "types" of cyclist are, in fact, the same person

eeeee · 04-11-2021 9:38pm

If you race you're a racing cyclist, if you don't you're a leisure cyclist. And that's across all disciplines. I don't see how that's that complicated? (I don't mean that in a smart way btw)

The 'functional ' (utilitarian?) Cyclist is another category again. All types of cyclists can be one, but solely utilitarian cyclists aren't the other two.

ednwireland · 04-11-2021 11:08pm

no membership price rises is good. (was reading the agm docs in the airport 🙂)

Morris Garren · 06-11-2021 6:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110562#Comment_118110562

A good AGM, at times pedantic and laborious but plenty of good banter.

Most motions were passed; mercifully the Munster proposal about 'foreign' cyclists was withdrawn and the recommendations around the calendar and recognising Leisure cycling all accepted. A couple of tweaks are needed to the track and prizemoney proposals/wording but they should be in place given that they were passed 'in spirit'

I was surprised at the level of opposition to the proposals about women's calendar and prizes at races; lots of silly 'wharaboutery' and red herrings thrown at them,

Helen Kerrane made a very fine well received contribution that got unanimous support re: leisure

An important new situation regarding Safeguarding- all clubs will be required to appoint and train a person, deferred to January 2023. Even if they don't have youths.

And Carl Fullerton and Conor Campbell elected to the Board.

CramCycle · 06-11-2021 7:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128568#Comment_118128568

Indeed, how the suggestions from the womens commission led to such debate over what you would have to be insane to misinterpret was beyond me. Even if it did happen in the way it was misunderstood, it would cost SFA to a club. Also not the only boo boo by the new president, I think he managed to insult about half the clubs in the room, he would have done better saying nothing but I don't think it was intentional, seemed more nervousness. I agree about the attitude towards women, I think it was that typical thing of people not even hearing what they were saying out loud. Glad someoen delayed the safeguarding officer as I had my hand up to point out that 75% of clubs would be in breach of the rules. Also the fighting against coaching annoyed me. They had level 3 coaching only a few years ago and then a few lads who now charge a ton of money for it got it and now no one else can, I really hope they read the tone in the room and work hard to get courses back up and open to everyone. Felt bad Philip didn't get in, he has contributed loads to youth cycling and would have been an asset as he has a real passion for it. Conor Campbell also gave a great speech and I think will bring loads to the board, he knows his stuff and also understands things from both the culture and the technical side of things.

CramCycle · 06-11-2021 7:10pm

Also the speaker from the leisure commission on the leisure cyclist definition, really hammered it home how insultingly ignorant of the largest section of the membership the paperwork makes CI sound. Delivered with an eloquence often missing at CI AGMs.

harringtonp · 06-11-2021 7:54pm

Is there a link anywhere to the motions passed or even the motions themselves ?

Seth Brundle · 06-11-2021 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128647#Comment_118128647

What was said and how wasn't received?

Morris Garren · 06-11-2021 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128807#Comment_118128807

There was an outline beforehand on the CI Website; I think every member got an email also? The full run down will probably be posted online soon.

NamelessPhil · 06-11-2021 10:03pm

My day isn't over yet, I'm on the replacement bus service back to Houston because of engineering works on the train line. 4 trains, a 5:30 am start and a couple of zippy bike rides.

It was a good AGM, by the usual standards of CI's AGMs. The point about women's cycling was ridiculous. If you build it they will come, women's racing has moved on from the days when I was racing and it can be pushed further.

Coaching is definitely another issue to be tackled and the situation in NI about grant applications was badly handled by CI and deserved an apology.

I am the person from the Leisure Commission who spoke at the meeting. I don't have any anonymity to lose so I'm fine with it being discussed here. Any of you can contact the Leisure Commission at the leisure at cycling ireland.ie email.

I said that there is only one reference to "leisure" in CI's Technical Regulations - in the Glossary referring to an event organiser organising a leisure event. That's it - the sole reference to leisure in the Technical Regulations.

The Memorandum and Articles of CI refer to the promotion of "leisure cycling" but with no definition of who or what is a leisure cyclists or leisure event.

Leisure members make up the vast majority of CI members over 16,000 members. I sought to define leisure cyling and leisure events to bring them Iine with every other discipline that CI overseas.

The text of the motions is available on the CI website.

fat bloke · 07-11-2021 12:18am

Shame to come all the way down and miss out on the perks! The hotel is really nice and the dinner was absolutely smashing. A good cut above your usual standard feed-the-masses, conference-fare. Yum! - When's the next AGM?? :D

NamelessPhil · 07-11-2021 12:50am

I'm cooking my Dad's birthday dinner tomorrow so I needed to go home today.

Morris Garren · 07-11-2021 9:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129801#Comment_118129801

The new President mentioned that he intends going on a nationwide 'Town Hall' type series of 'rallies' to whip up the grass roots. You might get a bit of grub at them, what with all this bags of cash apparently sitting in CI accounts out there.... spend spend spend

CramCycle · 08-11-2021 11:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130428#Comment_118130428

I think it showed the main issue with the variance between strict adherence to corporate governance, the common sense approach and the lazeez faire style, all of which were prevalent from different speakers. I think the motions, despite some of the stupid discussion (in my opinion), worked well as the (vice)president was able to step in and say, you know what, it's pretty clear, we will get the technical commission to clear up any nuances that might appear and lets get what is a good idea approved. It also highlighted why you need the paid staff, to stop people thinking you could just spend money that they think is there when it isn't. There is a fair bit in the provincial coffers, hopefully it will get turned to something useful like training coaches past foundation and level 1, or even just support for clubs to run more races for youths and womens races, as in once a fortnight, if no club runs a youth or womens race, the province or cycling ireland directly agrees to fund the commissaires, ambulance and lead/follow car in such a race so it is of no risk to the club.

Cycling Ireland AGM 2021

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