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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭phily2002


    Lol do tell the big difference in this case between possible and probable. MK isn't guessing at the team. He's been given a heads up from someone in camp at how training is going and what the team is shaping up as. A lot can change and it could be totally different, I think everyone knows this. Would it have made any difference if I said "possible team". People would still give their opinion on it.

    But deepest apologies for mixing up the words. I hope it hasn't caused you too much anger lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Your last sentence is bang on.

    Not only are people just pure determined to find negatives in absolutely everything, they defend the negativity by saying its "just their opinion"

    Someone whose actively trying to opine such negative thoughts constantly and complain about it all just kinda wears me down. Hence rarely posting or scrutinising this thread.

    It's just not good for me. I work hard to keep myself in a good mental state and there's people in here that just wear me down. It's why I stopped visiting the Ireland subreddit too.

    It appears the intersection on the Venn Diagram of "Irish forum posters" and "people who find flaws in everything and moan about it" is extremely large....

    Life is short folks, it's only rugby, try smile see some good in things. Your mental health will thank you :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I call people out for moaning all the time

    So you're the arbiter of what constitutes too much moaning and will call people miserable and unhappy when you don't feel the moaning is warranted.

    The coaches can win, as you well know because I was on your side backing Farrell when UAEguy was calling him a gutless coward



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Reading the article in the 42 I think he pretty much is guessing. The way he was phrasing the article didn’t sound anything like some form of inside track. It was just an educated guess from him I reckon. He’s probably not far off of course, as I said this needs to be the warm up for next week. Otherwise next week becomes a complete waste of time at best and a massive issue for our development and consistency at worst. Farrell still has to manage the squad beyond also managing our depth and upcoming talent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,085 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Nah, you're doing the classic social media shuffle of someone pointing out your mistake and instead of saying, "oops sorry", you're digging your heels in.

    It's an anonymous internet forum. There is no face for you to lose by admitting a mistake.

    It didn't cause me any anger at all btw, but it certainly riled up a lot of other posters.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Well, if you do the lotto, do you think it's probable that you'll win? Or possible that you'll win?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    I never said my post applied to you though. I never mentioned anyone specifically in it at all. I’m making a general point about the state this place is in at the moment. As AB1 said, this place is just wearing people down. A lot have left already. More will leave. And this was one of the few places left for reasonable discussion. I’d like if we didn’t lose that.

    Some people are far more guilty of the behaviour I mentioned than others. But I’m not going to start singling people out or grouping people into “misery categories” or anything like that. We all could do with checking ourselves every once in a while to make sure we aren’t falling into that pattern of behaviour. It’s all too easy to do (I’ve been guilty of it myself) and it’s become completely normalised on the internet. But it’s f-ing toxic as well as being completely pointless. It’s not like it changes anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof



    It's a shame, tho. There are posters who's opinion I would have valued that pretty much never post here now. I largely put it down to the absence of modding since the change over. There's plenty of stuff that previously would've been infracted, which might've nipped the worst of it in the bud. I'm expecting it to be even worse once the AI's kick off.

    Incidentally, does anyone know if the modd-ing functionality is likely to be back any time soon?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Eh, probable, obviously. Every time I do the massive Euromillions jackpot I know I’m going to win it. It doesn’t matter what happened last time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭phily2002


    Agree that he'll use this for a warm up for NZ. I think he'll use the Argentina game to try a couple of things but a NZ scalp will be his main target. NZ are getting a lot of praise but I think it's a game we can definitely win. I don't think they're as strong as past NZ teams.

    Yeah maybe Kinsella is guessing but he's done previous articles like this and been very accurate with his team. I should have said possible team but don't think it would have made any difference to the chat. But at least it gave a couple of posters something to moan about lol



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    This is exactly the kind of optimism we could do with around here!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭phily2002


    It's quite clear I used the wrong word but again would the chat have been any different if I said possible?

    Your going on like people wouldn't have moaned about the team if that was the case which I beg to differ

    But here you go

    "Oops sorry everyone for getting the word wrong"

    Money I spend on it I'd go with probable!



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Sure same could be said for the likes of balpucoune, Coombes, frailty,doak to be fair. I'm not saying we should throw them in at all but to say you learn nothing is not true


    Edit:frawley

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Frailty? Is that Carbery's new nickname? ;)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,085 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Team I'd like to see vs NZ;

    Porter Kelleher Furlong

    Ryan Henderson

    Beirne Conan VDF

    Murray Sexton

    Larmour Aki Ringrose Baloucoune

    Keenan


    Herring, Healy, Bealham, Baird, Doris, Casey, Carbery, Zebo


    I think we'd learn plenty from that side and still be competitive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    The actual team won't be out until Thursday so yesterday was a bit too early for Murray to have the exact team. I'm sure he will have at least 90% idea of it tomorrow evening

    Yesterday he might have seen training and who was taking reps.

    Alternatively the 42 makes money by clicks so putting in a few bombs on the team automatically draws more traffic to the comments section.

    I think we all know the team for Japan will be at close to full strength. And In a number of positions there is not a lot between players.

    Any 3 of Bierne, Ryan and Henderson could be picked in second row.

    Any of the players in the squad could start in the in multiple combinations in the back row.

    Its a pity the US game was called off last weekend. It think if that game had gone ahead we would have had a number of combinations tried out over the 2 matches.

    I'm suprised when that game was called off the IRFU didn't organise a 4th game even for a "wolfhound" team this weekend to get additional game time into players.

    Maybe they tried and failed?

    With no URC games oncurrently An original squad of 45 or so could have been announced for 2 weeks and then reduced down to 35 or so after this weekend for the last 2 games



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    It isn't an ideal time in the season to have such a prolonged break. We're only 5 weeks in and the non internationals are getting a month off and the bulk of the Ireland 1st XV have probably only played 2 or 3 games at most, some Lions have played considerably less than that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I agree. Couple of youngsters in the forwards and a couple more in the backs. See how they go.

    Start Kelleher and Doris or Coombes (have the other on the bench). Start either JGP and Byrne or Casey and Sexton. Have the other combo on the bench. Start Hume in midfield or Balacoune on the wing. If they perform ok against the ABs they're ready for the 6 Nations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020



    1. Andrew Porter
    2. Ronan Kelleher
    3. Tom O'Toole
    4. Ryan Baird
    5. James Ryan
    6. Tadgh Beirne
    7. Josh van der Flier
    8. Jack Conan
    9. Conor Murray
    10. Joey Carbery
    11. Simon Zebo/James Lowe
    12. Ciaran Frawley
    13. Garry Ringrose
    14. Robert Balacoune
    15. Hugo Keenan

    Bench (1 = 16, 8 = 23)

    1. Rob Herring
    2. Cian Healy
    3. Tadgh Furlong
    4. Iain Henderson
    5. Caelan Doris
    6. Craig Casey
    7. Jonathan Sexton
    8. Bundee Aki


    Simply put out 70-75% of the first team as like its been said here get them minutes before NZL but also through in some youngsters to see how they fit in to the match day environment. On the bench fill it with first team players who also need minutes which should give Ireland a huge advantage in the final 20 if needed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    We are but I seriously worry if we are going into this game playing Sexton when its clear we have real problems at finding his replacement. When you struggle in a position it doesnt mean you sit back and do nothing and hope the problem fix's itself, it means you go out there and fix the problem. If we have problems at 10 then use the Japan and Argentina games to look at the alternatives.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Aye well I agree to an extent on Sexton. I'd be surprised if he is involved against Argentina and I dont think he will play 80 mins against either Japan or NZ so Carbery will keep game time and probably a start, and Byrne will hopefully get a good half hour against Argentina.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I don't have an issue if he wants to start Sexton here, with a view to the NZ game, but I hope whoever is on the bench gets a good 25+ minutes. Part of the problem tho is if he intends for Murray to start vs NZ, then I think he's a cert to start here as he's only played 21 mins all season.

    I think I'd prefer to see Murray/Carbery with Sexton getting 20 odd mins off the bench.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭TRC10


    But is it really worth sacrificing valuable minutes for Carbery, just to gain a slightly better chance of beating NZ in an ultimately meaningless game, when beating them is already highly unlikely?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    I’d absolutely hate it if anyone in the Ireland set-up thought like that tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Like what?

    Using November tests to prepare for future 6 Nations and World Cups.

    Like every other tier 1 nation does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    I’d hate them to think that it’s a meaningless game that they are highly unlikely to win. You know, the thing you said in the post I quoted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    How much is Carbery going to improve by playing 80 minutes against Japan in an Autumn international?

    It would be valuable gametime at a higher level for Harry Byrne. But Carbery?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Yes. If it’s 50/30 mins for Carbery/Sexton or vice versa, I think that’s reasonable enough. If Sexton is still on after 70 mins, then I'd be much more critical. Or if a combo of Murray and Sexton are on beyond 55 mins.

    Question for you, TRC. Presumably you were absolutely delighted with Farrell's 8 new caps in the USA game, given all your criticism in the lead up around it? It was exactly the kind of thing you were calling for, right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    You must've missed this post of mine. I'll leave it here for you, for your reference. It's almost like he's doing exactly what you want.

    Out of interest, I checked how Farrell compares vs his peers and their predecessors also. In terms of new caps per game, he’s ahead of everyone bar Galthie.

    Andy Farrell - 22 new caps in 16 games

    Ian Foster - 14 new caps in 17 games

    Steve Hansen - 22 new caps took 29 games

    Eddie Jones - 22 new caps took 20 games

    Stuart Lancaster - 22 new caps took 18 games

    Galthie - 27 new caps in 15 games

    Brunel - 22 new caps took 17 games

    Pivac - 18 new caps in 16 games

    Townsend - 22 new caps in 18 games

    Dave Rennie - 17 new caps in 17 games



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭TRC10


    You're missing the point completely.

    It's not about giving new caps.

    I have never once criticised Farrell for not giving enough new caps. He's done brilliantly in that regard.



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