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Climate Bolloxolgy.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,060 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    There's a balance - and some land going back to semi wild isn't all bad - but a lot of our traditional wildlife has adapted to certain types of agriculture -

    A friend of mine years ago was studying in north Wales , there was a project to get more traditional cattle up the mountains - because they'd bruise the bracken - allowing the sheep to keep the ground open - allowing other types of wildlife to thrive - but too many sheep resulted in erosion and no cover for ground nesting birds -

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 EnglishHeart


    I believe in you as a self determining independent state.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There was a study in the catchment of the Seven valley where they fenced off areas of the uplands to encourage water inflitration as the scrub regenerated. It significantly reduced down stream flooding which saved substantial costs. Overgrazing of the uplands was a bad side effect of the headage payment system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    My late FIL used to have a mixed enterprise - 60 milch cows, 30-40 ewes (Wicklow Cheviot and Suffolk crosses) lambing in Spring and 25 acres of mostly potatoes with 4 acres of turnips and Winter cabbage. When he retired from milking we kept the sheep and veg going and bought in British FR bull calves along Angus and Hereford and reared them to beef.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,060 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    And where that happens there should be consequences - I'm in favour of less fertilizer and there are already new regs about slurry spreading ..

    Are we playing a what aboutery game ?

    Because we can play that with every economic sector in the country !! Should we just abandon the country ?

    Many of the farming subsidies were designed to keep people in rural areas ,-that can change - where we just have huge commercial farms -abandon rural Ireland , and everyone living in urban areas -

    Do we stop subsidising mult-nationals ?

    Do we subsidise all job creation ,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭green daries


    Your making up the narrative to suit yourself there ted and like all people who do this your you are also willing to shift your position on a point away with you I'm done with the likes of you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 657 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    The difficulty is that what you would like to see has been happening for years . High quality food , good biodiversity, extensive farming are all there already but yet we have to cut the national herd !!!

    It is a part of this debate that I don’t understand .I would be of the opinion that 90 per cent of the farms in the county that I live in have less livestock on them now than they had thirty years ago . Declining farm incomes and the availability of off farm employment has seen to that . Those proposing climate change mitigation to these farmers will be told to f...k off.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If you read what i said I have been entirely consistent.

    I am not against subsidies.

    Government have a say in what is required to receive subsides.

    Farmers have more responsibilities than just providing food - namely social good such as climate change, clean water, flood defenses and encourage biodiversity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭dePeatrick


    We are determined to stay in the EU, particularly while watching the cock up going on in the UK. There is zero appetite here for Irexit.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I can say with certainty that biodiversity has declined since the harvest 2020 program started. Marginal land which was a haven for biodiversity was grubed up. All the programs which came as part of the CAP were no substitute.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭alps


    Just as well that you can say something with certainty, because the trash you've been throwing out so far is like someone suffering from mythomania and pseudologia fantastica.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,494 ✭✭✭✭wrangler




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭green daries




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭green daries




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,414 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    Maybe when N is severely reduced, emissions are also reduced?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,414 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    Dairy cow numbers are falling here by about 2% per year. Production is staying the same however.

    France produces around 80% of its electricity from nuclear. Some is exported to Germany, Belgium, UK and Ireland. Maybe the nuclear is greatly reducing overall emissions?

    As you probably know the lads at home are trialing seaweed extracts etc. Huge funding available also…the quest for the holy grail?

    I find it a bit amusing that ye put so much hope into finding magic bullets..protected urea, methane reducing seaweed, snakeoil etc.


    How about stop pushing back against emission reductions and being part of the solution…for a price!!??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭alps


    Sounds like the beet saga all over again..

    There's no chance that the price will be adequate.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You wonder why farmers are widely perceived as knuckle draggers.

    When they think putting up a few bird boxes (and the other pathetic box ticking schemes) is a solution to biodiversity loss.

    An article on exactly what I said, farmers a forced to grub up biodiverse rich land or lose payments:


    "THE STORY OF John Kelly’s farm in Wicklow proves one thing to be true: it doesn’t pay to leave space for nature.  

    John is an intensive dairy farmer with 350 acres and 250 cows near Blessington. He’s acutely aware of the pressures on farmers to shift towards more nature-friendly practices, but when he tried to leave areas for wildlife on his land, the public money he received from his farm subsidy, via the Department of Agriculture, was cut.

    His experience mirrors farmers across Ireland who say that their attempts to leave areas for nature on their farms are penalised under the current way farm subsidies are paid. 

    “Any environmental stuff we are doing, we are giving up land classified as ‘productive’. We left stripes of nettles and thistles here for wildlife, but they were mapped out for deductions in my farm payment,” Kelly said. “Once you do it, it’s gone. Nothing I do environmentally will pay better than cows.”


    https://www.thejournal.ie/cash-cow-pt1-5565456-Oct2021/


    And you would claim that biodiversity is better than ever under this regime, numpties.


    You wonder why your losing support in the country when you can't even acknowledge the issues !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,494 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    I find if you keep opposing something you can only improve your situation, once you agree , you're f...d

    Again farmers on here accusing IFA of agreeing to something, they'd go along way to find where IFA signed up to anything apart from the likes of the roads agreement orthe gasline deal that were no brainers not to



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Tourist here to the farming forum but I see on the independent newspaper site that " there is to be no cut to national herd "


    Begs the question, what are farmers now concerned about ?


    Will it now be a case of planting extra forestry to reduce emissions?


    Was the whole thing exaggerated in terms of the threat to rural economy?


    Not a green party voter for disclosure



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,609 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Possibly how they expect to hit the 30% reduction then by not culling the herd. That was the only plan put forward before now. In order to hit that target the government claimed the herd had to be reduced. What changed I wonder



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,104 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    God its going to be a painful two weeks listening to the shyte (no pun intended) coming out of COP26, even Boris Johnson in on the act, that buffoon wouldn't know what climate change was if it slapped in him the face.

    Shrieking Greta arrived yesterday to much fanfare yesterday, apparently she's Annoyed (something new 🙄) about not being officially invited 😒

    Interesting news feature on Channel 4 news last night about the hypocrisy around who's actually sponsoring this event, from Banks (Natwest with over €500 million in fossil fuel industry), Pension funds, oil companies, even of all people Glasgow City councils pension fund who have 100's of millions invested in big energy. Indeed some saintly sponsors have spent millions fighting legislation tackling climate change.

    Two weeks of hot air ahead and its not methane from cows backsides that's the cause 😏

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,944 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Will they just create conditions that force a drop in the National herd as a byproduct is the question.

    nitrates derogations, forced wild areas, limiting N spreading, increased slurry storage capacity.

    there are many ways this could be achieved



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,609 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    That was the general thought around here also. Make it the farmers idea to reduce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭alps


    Thats precisely whats happening here. The investment required and the variable day to day cost of these measures will force many to take the decision to quit.

    The expectation is that age demographics will play into this and that labour shortage will inhibit the expansion of the remaining farms to the extent that numbers will remain static for the shirt term and slowly reduce from there on.

    They are putting the tools in place whereby CAP funds will be accessible to those doing less and Nitrates will control stocking rates and densities.

    This slower death by a thousand cuts is far more implementable than a stated reduction in numbers.

    The notion of a just transition for farmers is that the pain will be back loaded and not all applied at the one time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The idea that people need to eat is the one thing in this that isn't entertained.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,283 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,083 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Could you not come up with a better name for us, at least be a bit more inventive like this chap https://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/111stalin.html



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭alps


    This is a qualification from a newspaper. That same qualification is not forthcoming from the Minister, even at the mart "consultations".

    The political decision around this, while might be agreed, is still not set in stone.

    A week of farmer hatred from Glasgow, if the narrative should turn that way, could put a government agreement of static herd in a difficult place.

    Static herd is only part of the narrative.

    The measures to be taken to reduce emissions are costly. There is a 30% grant towards the cost of a slurry spreader, but then you'd have to change to a more powerful (and heavier fuel consumption) tractor. Most will have to use contractor, no grant aid, no carbon fuel tax relief.

    Protected Urea (if available) is 20% dearer than Urea.

    Multispecies swards will take 10 years to rotationally establish on farms...cost €850/ha..

    The cash cost of this reduction would be enormous, and it looks by the way CAP funds are to be distributed this time around, that help is only forthcoming towards reduction in numbers and not towards mitigating technologies, like what will happen in every other sector.

    The "threat" you refer to was from a KPMG report that if Irish Food Production had to endure a 30% cut in emissions, it would mean the liss of 56,000 jobs.



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