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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,041 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    Lol Why not just address his points directly and honestly?

    Why do you have to ignore stuff?

    Why do people have to ignore your lies and ignorance and general dishonesty because you want to avoid people who point this out,


    This is possibly your more telling, and saddest post yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,657 ✭✭✭✭ charlie14


    I really do not find it exhausting having to repeat myself having to correcting you on your theories that have been so often debunked. I have done it so often now that I could do it in my sleep. The only reason I bother is I find people like you dangerous being allowed to promote your rubbish unchallenged.

    If you are exhausted then may I suggest you stop posting utter rubbish and wasting others time that you have posted over various threads where it has been shown for what it is, rather than chancing your arm yet again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭ Gortanna




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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭ Fighting Tao




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,374 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    It's been that way for years, Just look at the recent thread whinging about the CT forum where posters were actually asking for posters who disagree with them to be banned from the forum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,637 ✭✭✭✭ MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Couldn't believe my ears this morning...the news saying that most people are in favour of restrictions remaining beyond the 22nd and theyre happy to have a two tier system of vacced and unvacced. The media REALLY did a number on people over the last few weeks pushing the narrative that the current trend is the unvacced fault.

    Just fûcking wow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,041 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    Why are you shocked? Most people want the numbers of people dying and suffering due to covid to be reduced. Why wouldn't they be in favour of restrictions being extended to do this?

    Are you claiming that the restrictions aren't going to do this?

    Also what do you by "Pushing a narrative?"

    Who is pushing this narrative any why?


    Also which measures will be permanent and how do they benefit the people behind the conspiracy?


    I'm not holding much hope for answers to these questions cause this post sounds like the typicial vapid fly by statement with no depth and no conviction.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    it's pretty simple....

    Irish health system is fucked...any surge in cases resulting in a surge in hospitalisations and any subsequent ICU admissions will crucify Ireland's shitbox health system...

    Given that an infection today, if results in a hospitalisation, that hospitalisation won't happen until 1st or 2nd week of November, which is creeping into peak winter rush, could trigger Ireland's shite health service into struggle mode

    Given that it's been proven that the majority of these case are unvaccinated people (not just an Irish stat by the way), yes, it is unvaccinated people that would be one of the major contributors ....

    However, that doesn't get rid of the root cause, Ireland's **** health system.... it's the reason why the UK and other countries are able to weather the vaccinated/unvaccinated disparity in their population a lot better than what Ireland can



  • Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭ ohnohedidnt


    Why are you shocked? Most people want the numbers of people dying and suffering due to covid to be reduced. Why wouldn't they be in favour of restrictions being extended to do this?

    Why did we not have restrictions to prevent flu deaths, should we keep the restrictions forever to prevent flu deaths or are you okay with flu deaths? At what mortality rate do you think restrictions should be implemented for any contagious disease? Should we implement restrictions for everything with a mortality rate above say 0.1%? What's your number?

    Are you claiming that the restrictions aren't going to do this?

    Restrictions will reduce covid deaths to some extent, just like banning cars will limit road deaths, banning cigarettes will limit lung cancer deaths and the list goes on and on. If society's sole focus is preventing deaths the world becomes a very sad boring place.

    Also what do you by "Pushing a narrative?" Who is pushing this narrative any why?

    The governments and the media. The Governments got new powers and blank cheques, and the opportunity to inflate away some debt and buy some votes, the media make money by selling fear, covid is just the latest boogeyman, but it's a good one, people are still watching to see the latest case numbers for covid despite extremely low deaths, far fewer deaths than cancer, but cancer just isn't sexy enough to attract viewer/readers with case and death figures.

    Also which measures will be permanent and how do they benefit the people behind the conspiracy?

    I can't say I have much conviction behind this, as it's just off the top of my head, but I'll answer since the the question is there, and because you're point seems to be that there is no possible reasons. Governments are in debt that can't be repaid, they now know that people will be terrified of any virus, even a bad flu season or the prediction of one could be enough to lockdown the country and start up the printing presses and generate the the inflation the central banks and Governments have been openly trying to create for years now without success. Now every little virus that pops its head up could trigger restrictions. Restrictions may not be permanent in the sense that they get never get lifted, but they are permanent in the sense that they will be back, and will forever be hanging over our heads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭ ohnohedidnt


    I understand Covid is more contagious, and currently more deadly than the flu. I never claimed it wasn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,041 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    Why did we not have restrictions to prevent flu deaths, should we keep the restrictions forever to prevent flu deaths or are you okay with flu deaths? At what mortality rate do you think restrictions should be implemented for any contagious disease? Should we implement restrictions for everything with a mortality rate above say 0.1%? What's your number?

    Because for one, Covid is more deadly and more infectious than the flu. For two, it also more likely to cause cases that require more intensive care such as resperators. And for three it has the potential to become much more infectious and serious.

    As has been pointed out, the main danger from covid is it overwhelming health services.

    I don't know an exact number for which measures should be implemented. I'm not a doctor or an expert. Doctors and experts however have concluded that the measures are necessary.


    Your questions are a bit silly though, as I'm not "okay with flu deaths" any more than you are "okay with covid deaths". I find it really funny I keep getting whinged at for unfair questions, yet questions like these seem to be perfectly fine.


    Restrictions will reduce covid deaths to some extent, just like banning cars will limit road deaths, banning cigarettes will limit lung cancer deaths and the list goes on and on. If society's sole focus is preventing deaths the world becomes a very sad boring place.

    Great. The restrictions will save lives then.


    The governments and the media. The Governments got new powers and blank cheques, and the opportunity to inflate away some debt and buy some votes, the media make money by selling fear, covid is just the latest boogeyman, but it's a good one, people are still watching to see the latest case numbers for covid despite extremely low deaths, far fewer deaths than cancer, but cancer just isn't sexy enough to attract viewer/readers with case and death figures.

    Covid has killed nearly 5 million people.

    Covid is very infectious and can be passed by close contact. Cancer cannot. Covid can be reducted by simple measures such as vaccination and mask wearing. Cancer cannot. Your comparison is very flawed.

    So are you claiming that governments and media are all involved in this conspiracy to push the idea that covid is a threat? How are the media involved? Are all health organisations also involved?


    Again, your claims sound very scary and impressive, but there isn't actually that much depth to them.


    I can't say I have much conviction behind this, as it's just off the top of my head, but I'll answer since the the question is there, and because you're point seems to be that there is no possible reasons. Governments are in debt that can't be repaid, they now know that people will be terrified of any virus, even a bad flu season or the prediction of one could be enough to lockdown the country and start up the printing presses and generate the the inflation the central banks and Governments have been openly trying to create for years now without success. Now every little virus that pops its head up could trigger restrictions. Restrictions may not be permanent in the sense that they get never get lifted, but they are permanent in the sense that they will be back, and will forever be hanging over our heads.

    Well for one, that's not how the word "permanent" works.

    Also, do you believe this is just the Irish government? Or every government around the world?


    Could you also try directly answering my question this time in practical terms:

    Which measures will be permanent. (Please list specific ones.)

    Please explain how they will benefit the people behind the conspiracy to force them. (Specifically explain how those measures will benefit.)

    Your previous answer is too vague and too generalised to be in any way meaningful. To be honest, it's just more empty conspiracy buzzwords.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,654 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe



    To address each of your paragraphs:

    Covid was a new disease, spreading rapidly throughout the world, threatening to overwhelm national health systems, with a relatively higher death rate than most widespread infectious respiratory diseases. We didn't know much about it when it emerged (we are still learning about the long term effects), we didn't have vaccines. In contrast, seasonal flu was milder, something we were familiar with, something we had vaccines for, and wasn't threatening any countries on a national level.

    Restrictions are common sense measures to mitigate and reduce the spread of the virus. The more severe the spread in a country, the more widespread the measures to protect the healthcare system and to reduce deaths overall

    In the real world the "Governments and media" don't work neatly together, outlets in many countries are typically competitive with each other and regularly criticise/savage the establishment, along with the opposition parties.

    National debt is not like personal debt, it's actually essential for the functioning of a modern economy, most countries don't have any issue servicing their nat. debts, and in rare cases if a payment can't be made, then they can default (e.g. Argentina). Also countries like Norway, which can easily repay it's national debt with a sovereign fund (at any time) have used restrictions, like everyone else, so your conspiracy idea makes little or no sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭ Mullaghteelin


    In the real world the "governments and media" don't work neatly together!?

    Don't be so naive! Welcome to the new normal of 2021. Countries around the world are becoming more inspired by distopian China than anything else.

    We see governments building ever closer relationships with big tech and social media companies, vying for more control of what can and cannot be spoken about, while simultaneously gaining access to an insane level of personal data. Not only has the media got rules about what it can report, but also how it is to be reported, and more importantly, what it cannot report .

    Meanwhile the Irish media has never been willing to threaten the establishment, or rock the boats of the wrong people in power. At least not in the last 2 or 3 decades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,041 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    Ok. So which media organisations specifically are involved in the conspiracy to make all covid measures permanent? Just all of them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,654 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe


    Which political parties in which countries are systematically "inspired" by China? If it's widespread it should be easy to provide examples. Likewise, how are Communist parties in Ireland and elsewhere in the world doing?

    As for your generalisations about international media; Offshore leaks, Panama papers, Paradise papers, Pandora papers - I don't see any "increasing" control by politicians, if anything it's going in the opposite direction, and they are consistently the targets. Big tech and social media companies which have traditionally operated without constraint are increasingly coming under scrutiny and regulation, there have been considerable changes in just the last few years.

    There are always outliers and isolated incidents, but I certainly don't see "governments and media" working seamlessly together at all. It's a lazy trope that's used to support basically every conspiracy and extreme notion going, including just about every Covid conspiracy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭ ohnohedidnt


    You implied that anybody who doesn't want restrictions extended doesn't care about people dying and suffering from covid. I don't think that's a fair implication. I'm just curious if you're in favour of extending any restriction which could prevent dying and suffering from any virus, if masks and social distancing will prevent flu or other respiratory virus deaths, do you think they should be permanent even after covid, to prevent the dying and suffering from them? I'm fully aware significantly less people die of flu, but people do die from it and we can't tell the bad years until its too late. We didn't have restrictions in place before covid, so presumably there is an acceptable rate of death from respiratory viruses according to doctors and governments, I'd like to know where the bar is. You say you care about flu deaths, so presumably you won't ever want restrictions lifted, or are some deaths acceptable as long as the health service isn't overwhelmed?

    I'm not necessarily against lockdowns or masks, I was one of the first people wearing masks when this all kicked off, getting looked at like I was mental in shopping centers, and I fully supported the first two weeks lockdown. But in my opinion at some point there was a disconnect between the data and the measures being implemented, because hysteria kicked in. Decisions about all aspects of the lives of the entire country were being made by a group of people who's sole job was to focus on one thing, doctors will focus on health, that's all they know, health is great but there's a reason the country wasn't ran but doctors before this. I'm all for good teeth too, but I don't want the country being run by dentists.

    Every time I get into a discussion with you think everything is a conspiracy, I think it's your favorite word, I'd be interested to know your definition, it seems like if somebody thinks differently to you they must be conspiracy theorists. If a story sells, the media will push it, that's not a conspiracy, that's just business, the media's job is to find the boogeyman be it the Terrorists, Trump, the Russians, The Russians and Trump together, now Covid, it doesn't matter, fear sells, so that's what they have to generate. I'm not saying Covid isn't a threat, I'm saying the threat is exaggerated, and people are so hysterical about it that they are applying a logic to anything covid related, which runs counter to their logic about all other risks in life.

    I don't know if any measures will be permanent, because I think more than likely governments will revert back to accepting that a certain death rate is acceptable from viruses. But who knows, they might apply your logic and say getting rid of masks means you don't care about people who die from Pneumonia, and if you stick a catchy label on people who disagree, anti-maskers maybe, most people will fall in line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,654 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe


    Right, but in fairness your post did allude to a conspiracy on a conspiracy theory forum. As for your personal opinion that the measures are an over-reaction, okay, but polls have shown the majority of people in most situations support the measures. Countries with leaders who have actively ignored the threat of Covid, e.g. Bolsonero, have often faired worse than countries which took the situation more seriously. The consensus of experts; the scientists, virologists, epidemiologists, medical professionals, etc, likewise the bodies that advise governments all around the world (with one or two exceptions) have generally supported the implementation of those measures.

    As for your comments on "hysteria", it's a global pandemic that has killed 5 million in a year and a half, it's unthinkable what those figures would have been without measures. The disease brought multiple national health systems to their knees. Killed more people in the US than the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic (for several months in 2020 it became the leading cause of death in the US, even as recently as last month it remains leading cause of death among 35 to 44 year olds).



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭ Risteard81


    It's not particularly serious. The Treasonous totalitarian reaction is serious (and dangerous) and will kill many more people than COVID-19 ever could.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭ Risteard81


    Prove your conspiracy that "the restrictions have saved lives" because it's patently untrue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭ Risteard81




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,857 ✭✭✭✭ pjohnson




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭ Risteard81




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,374 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    Oh look who's back, fancy answering questions you previously dodged?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭ Risteard81


    I don't have to answer trolling nobodies like you or King Kong mobster.



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