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Is Dave Chappelle's new special "The Closer" really transphobic?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Starfire20


    Forstater was not a simple case of someone tweeting something innocuous in passing, it involved months of campaigning to take away the rights that trans women have today for protection against the misogynistic sexism and sexual violence they face for being women, and a refusal to respect trans people for who they are. This was an attempt to create a false dichotomy between supporting trans rights and just agreeing with the entire field of biology. The position that she takes isn’t the “belief that sex is determined by biology”, it is the the belief that everyone is put into box based on their genitals at birth: girl or boy, and that that is what they are for the rest of their lives. This is false and is not supported by science — biology is far more nuanced and complicated than that. Trans people, intersex people, doctors, experts and feminists aren’t arguing that sex isn’t real, they are arguing the opposite: that in reality it isn’t black and white.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Starfire20


    I asked you to provide an example as you are claiming that she has been cancelled. Im not going to do the work for you.



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ok sweetheart, I'll say again what I previously said (and what prompted you to respond to me)

    "You are purposely missing the point. If Rowling gets cancelled, anyone that holds her views are cancelled by proxy.

    What **** did she spout? What was particularly egregious to you? What should she be accountable for?"

    When you answer my questions, I'll answer yours. Three questions. Fire ahead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Starfire20


    JK Rowling is a transphobe and is arguing for taking away the rights of transwomen.

    It is, of course, ironic that JK Rowling previously talked about freedom of speech in an article she posted with comments turned off, and tweeted with replies turned off, days after silencing someone with a legal threat but you do you.



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You are being a little bigoted. What about transmen?

    What rights did she try to take away from "transwomen"?

    Am I a transphobe if I don't believe a woman can be a man (or vice versa)?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Starfire20


    We were talking about Jk and she argues against transwomen but I guess you're highfiving yourself thinking you somehow "got me".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,153 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    People are allowed views & you don't have to friggin agree with them but basic facts like biology hold no matter what, go deal with it.

    What does it matter if someone is a billionaire? how does that affect anything? why is it shite? because you don't agree? shall we talk how stupid it was Maya Forstater lost her job?

    So is biology shite now? ffs

    "Dress however you please.

    Call yourself whatever you like.

    Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.

    Live your best life in peace and security.

    But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real? "

    The twatter mafia tried to cancel her as far as I can see, if not what were "they " attempting?

    Leaving aside the fact that recent (recently repeated I should point out) revelations about Facebook should make anyone skeptical about groups which can be identified by the platform on which they appear to exist, do the two points in bold not contradict each other somewhat?



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No highfiving.

    I'll ask again, what rights did she try to take away from "transwomen"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭cocotheclown


    Right, a trans "woman" cannot give birth can they? nor can they have a period. Nothing can change that!

    She stated plenty of times that people should respect the rights of transgender people and their identity.

    let's look into the case and what her beliefs are:-

    She claimed she was discriminated against because of her beliefs, which include "that sex is immutable and not to be conflated with gender identity".

    Let's look at sex determination and what makes a male a male - the Y chromosome, the fact someone has it makes them male or we could look at like XY is male and XX is female in biology and this is there from the get go.

    Sexual characteristic is determined by biology and without it we wouldn't exist as we do, the determination or presence of Y determines how are sexual characteristics are developed and therefore how we reproduce and survive.

    Sexual differentiation occurs later but the sex is already determined.

    It is that simple, it's not nuanced or false at all it is determined from the get go, even if I was XY and wanted to wear a dress my sex has been determined already and all the surgery in the world will not change the presence of a Y chromosome.

    We could look at pathways and bring intersex disorders (and the hormone relation) into this but it still doesn't change our sexual evolution, you'll note that XXY and XXX types do not have genitalia issues so can assume the issue to that is hormonal and a pathway issue not chromosomal and guess what the same applies to plants.

    So tell me again how she was wrong? as I just don't see it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Starfire20


    The entire judgement:

    assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5e15e7f8e5274a06b555b8b0/Maya_Forstater__vs_CGD_Europe__Centre_for_Global_Development_and_Masood_Ahmed_-_Judgment.pdf


    the judges conclusion in the Forstater case:


    "I conclude from this, and the totality of the evidence, that the Claimant is

    absolutist in her view of sex and it is a core component of her belief that she

    will refer to a person by the sex she considered appropriate even if it violates

    their dignity and/or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or

    offensive environment. The approach is not worthy of respect in a democratic

    society."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Starfire20


    She is arguing to take away the rights of transwomen to use female spaces.



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do you believe that sex and gender are separate?

    Do you believe a biological man can become a biological woman?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭cocotheclown


    You can have opposing views and have a debate, you don't go and get people sacked for having differing views or just slating them for their views.

    I think Brexit is a load of shite but I don't impose my viewpoint on others or go out of my way to attack etc those that differ to my viewpoint.

    So no I don't think it is contradictive, the latter highlighted may of been vindictive though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Starfire20


    sex and gender are not the same thing.

    plus you still havent provided any evidence of JK being cancelled...sweetie



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Starfire20


    Do you support transwomen continuing to use female and/or female only spaces ?

    Or do you support cancelling them?



  • Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Was a good show, although he has produced better over the years imo.



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cool. So women and men are different and should be treated as such.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭cocotheclown


    That's from the original case that went against her? so there's a reason she won the appeal

     "Forstater said: “I struggle to express the shock and disbelief I feel at reading this judgment, which I think will be shared by the vast majority of people who are familiar with my case.

    “My belief … is that sex is a biological fact, and is immutable. There are two sexes, male and female. Men and boys are male. Women and girls are female. It is impossible to change sex. These were until very recently understood as basic facts of life by almost everyone.

    “… This judgment removes women’s rights and the right to freedom of belief and speech. It gives judicial licence for women and men who speak up for objective truth and clear debate to be subject to aggression, bullying, no-platforming and economic punishment.

    “I will consider the judgment closely with my legal team to determine what can be done to challenge it.”"

    and then from the appeal:-

    He concluded that Ms Forstater was "absolutist" in her view and said she was not entitled to ignore the rights of a transgender person and the "enormous pain that can be caused by misgendering".

    But the Honourable Mr Justice Choudhury said her "gender-critical beliefs" did fall under the Equalities Act as they "did not seek to destroy the rights of trans persons".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,705 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I think James Acaster did a pretty spot on job of taking the hand out of so called edgy comedians who rip into trans people.




  • Posts: 13,753 ✭✭✭✭ Kolten Most Orate




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭cocotheclown


    It's not for me to support or cancel I'd say that's down to women, cis, trans or whatever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,978 ✭✭✭buried


    I'd be a fan of Chappelle, but this thing was about as funny as falling headfirst in a septic tank. It really goes to show that this overplayed noise topic has become as redundant as a Fungi the Dolphin sightseeing boat-tour out in Dingle Bay tomorrow.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Starfire20


    Don't have a position on whether transwomen should be allowed to continue to use female spaces but you rush to the defence of JK because people were mean to her on twitter ?

    Speaks volumes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭cocotheclown


    Of whom?? I'm not a woman but I'll take the side of a woman if that is what she believes and if people are mean for having views. She's allowed to have them or do you not agree? it's not my toilet ffs.



  • Posts: 3,842 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Starfire20




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭cocotheclown


    A. You have a problem that she is rich?

    B. You state she sprouts shi*e? is not allowed to? that is her viewpoint

    C. By all means you can counter her view and debate but when as you state are mean! then you are a ****.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭cocotheclown


    Not biologically they aren't. " 2 buffalo girls go round the outside, round the outside"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,705 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    It's a tad rich but not in the least bit surprising...that netflix (which is extremely pro LGBT when it suits them) decided to suspend a trans employee who was critical of the stand up....not exactly a sign of freedom of speech which Dave Chapelle likes to go on about.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Starfire20


    calling Jk out for being a bigot and trying to cancel transwomen = being mean and trying to cancel her ?



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