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Electricity prices

2

Comments

  • #52
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    cute geoge wrote: »
    How can you use a car for battery storage ,is it just by leaving it parked up and hooked on to it with cables???

    Seemingly that's it.

    If your home is run by renewables and your car is fully charged up and the renewables start to fade. You can use the power from the car's battery.


  • #53
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Say my name wrote: »
    Seemingly that's it.

    If your home is run by renewables and your car is fully charged up and the renewables start to fade. You can use the power from the car's battery.

    Thats the theory. That tech is in trial but not commercially available at reasonable cost yet.... It will happen though... when is the unknown.

    Its called Vehicle-To-Home and also Vehicle-To-Grid.


    Some EV owners, during power cuts, connect 3rd party 12V inverters to the cars 12V battery and use that to power a few critical items. Once you have the car turned on it will keep the 12V battery charged up so you are in effect running "your house" from the cars high-voltage battery which would last for days..... you could do the same with a petrol/diesel car too as long as you have the car running.

    This vehicle-to-home technology would be a bit slicker in that you would simply come home, plug the car in as you normally would to charge the car and if there is a power cut it will automatically (via a bi-directional charge point) start feeding power back to the house. No need to get any inverters or cables out or popping the bonnet etc and it would drive the entire house rather than just a few essential items. Its in the future...


  • #54
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    KCross wrote: »
    Thats the theory.
    This vehicle-to-home technology would be a bit slicker in that you would simply come home, plug the car in as you normally would to charge the car and if there is a power cut it will automatically (via a bi-directional charge point) start feeding power back to the house. No need to get any inverters or cables out or popping the bonnet etc and it would drive the entire house rather than just a few essential items. Its in the future...

    Sounds great but what happens if the power goes and doesn't come back for hours could you end up stranded at home because your house has flattened the cars battery.


  • #55
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Sounds great but what happens if the power goes and doesn't come back for hours could you end up stranded at home because your house has flattened the cars battery.

    Technically yes.
    But new EV's would have a battery that would power an average house for many many days... maybe even weeks, so it would want to be one hell of a power cut.

    The longest power cut I've had was storm Ophelia and I was down for 5 days.... an EV would have powered the house for that time period no problem. Most power cuts in reality are a few hours, maybe a day or two.

    And nobody is stopping you from disconnecting the car from the house. Pick your poison, lights in the house or the ability to drive somewhere.

    You could also let the car run down just to a point where you could get to a nearby charger that does have power and charge the car up for 30mins and come back to your house to power it away again for another few days!


  • #56
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    KCross wrote: »
    Technically yes.
    But new EV's would have a battery that would power an average house for many many days... maybe even weeks, so it would want to be one hell of a power cut.

    The longest power cut I've had was storm Ophelia and I was down for 5 days.... an EV would have powered the house for that time period no problem. Most power cuts in reality are a few hours, maybe a day or two.

    And nobody is stopping you from disconnecting the car from the house. Pick your poison, lights in the house or the ability to drive somewhere.

    You could also let the car run down just to a point where you could get to a nearby charger that does have power and charge the car up for 30mins and come back to your house to power it away again for another few days!

    Didn't realise batteries would have that much power. I was more thinking of hours and you could have the battery fairly well run down before you realise it's running off the car.


  • #57
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Didn't realise batteries would have that much power. I was more thinking of hours and you could have the battery fairly well run down before you realise it's running off the car.

    For perspective...
    EV's nowadays have between 60-100kWh's of available energy.
    An average domestic house in Ireland would use about ~10kWh's per day. Every house is different of course, but it gives you an idea.


  • #58
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    KCross wrote: »
    Its a little off-topic but its worth a reply.

    Any farmer, particularly dairy, who has some capital to spend now for a long term gain should take a serious look at Solar PV.

    Dairy farmers, in particular, because the sun is shining most at the time that dairy farms have the ability to utilise it (self-consumption is critically important for ROI), which is ~10:00-19:00 during the summer months..... what with plate coolers, bulk tanks, milking machine, compressors, hot water, water pumps etc. In addition farmers have loads of wide open roof space with no shading which is quite important to maximise the output. Ideally south facing.

    There are several threads in the Renewable forum that you should look at for costs and consider getting some installers out to quote you.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=117396876

    As for your ROI question... thats a very difficult one to answer definitively as it depends on what exactly you go for and what your usage profile is like.
    e.g. How many panels, what direction they are facing, how much of the electricity you can use, have you got batteries, have you got 3-phase... lots of variables but the payback should be, for a dairy farmer, somewhere around 5-7yrs. After that its money in the bank and SolarPV has no moving parts or servicing required. It either works or it doesnt. The panels are good for decades (25+ years). The weak link is the inverter which will die eventually (10 year warranty usually) but they are relatively cheap (€hundreds) to replace.

    Alot of farms have their electricity supply connected to their house in which case you'd be able to apply for the domestic SolarPV grant
    https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/solar-electricity-grant/

    Im not sure if you can apply for a grant if the farm supply is separate but you dont need the grant to make it viable and I'm sure you'd be able to claim other tax reliefs since it is a capital expenditure.

    Finally, as a headsup, there is a Feed-In-Traiff coming in the next month or so. A FiT is where you get paid for any generation that you dont use. That energy gets sent to the grid and at the moment Eirgrid get to use it for free!

    There will be a new microgeneration scheme put in place next month which will allow you to get paid for the unused energy... probably around the night rate value. It requires the installation of a smart meter which might be a double edged sword as the rates so far on smart meters are higher than standard day/night tariffs. If that occurs then you just let it go to the grid for free and do your best to use it all by dumping the excess to heat hot water or any other means possible (timing ice generators etc).


    Come on over to the renewable forum for further discussion, there are some farmers over there! ;)

    With solar, is there an ideal roof slope and direction to face it in? And would there be any issues with additional weight on the roof?
    Just thinking about setting up buildings to maximise efficiency if I was to ever go down that road. I presume it would be an ideal setup for hydrogen if we start to see them become commercialised


  • #59
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    With solar, is there an ideal roof slope and direction to face it in?

    Like most things... depends!

    To get the max generation it would be ~30° angle South facing.

    However, its not always best to position your panels for max generation.
    For example, dairy farmers would be milking early morning and late afternoon so it would be better in that case to split your panels to two arrays, one facing east and one facing west. You'll get less generated overall but more of it will be generated at the time you need it.... i.e. more self consumption, which is what you should aim for.

    If you have one array all facing south you will get a massive spike around midday when all panels are generating at their max and you might not be able to use it all and then you are relying on the Feed-in-tariff to pay you for the excess. Splitting into two arrays will reduce the peak you get but will give you more early morning and late evening generation when you are better able to use it.

    There is no one right solution. It depends on your usage, what sheds you have etc.

    As I mentioned above, an energy monitor over one summer to see what your usage is like and then a Solar installer to guide you on what is best to match that.
    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    And would there be any issues with additional weight on the roof?

    If installed correctly, no, unless the roof is ready to fall in already! :)
    The panels are not particularly heavy.

    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    Just thinking about setting up buildings to maximise efficiency if I was to ever go down that road. I presume it would be an ideal setup for hydrogen if we start to see them become commercialised

    There are some plans to generate Hydrogen using excess renewable in the country in Cork and Shannon. Not sure its something farmers need to be worried about though! You need masses of power for that!

    If you are interested in Solar PV you need to be thinking along the lines of utilising as much of what you generate as you can. Thats the best bang for the buck!


  • #60
    Hard Knocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    KCross wrote: »
    As I mentioned above, an energy monitor over one summer to see what your usage is like and then a Solar installer to guide you on what is best to match that.!

    Can you give a link to the monitor
    Do you just plug in or do you need it installed


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  • #61
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,329 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Hard Knocks wrote: »
    Can you give a link to the monitor
    Do you just plug in or do you need it installed

    If u just submit a meter reading monthly and keep track of it yourself is this not the same and cutting the expense


  • #62
    MAULBROOK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    whelan2 wrote: »
    The only down side with energia is there's a cap on the amount of units at the reduced price. So if you use alot of electricity you won't be saving much

    Cool I have solar so that works for me.


  • #63
    MAULBROOK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    Good loser wrote: »
    I get a big low usage charge from Electric Irl at times.

    Do some providers not have this?

    Only EI, do you have solar?


  • #64
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    If u just submit a meter reading monthly and keep track of it yourself is this not the same and cutting the expense

    I think it must track when you use most during the day. You could monitor your meter several times a day and you might have a good idea anyway on a dairy farm when peak demand is.


  • #65
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Hard Knocks wrote: »
    Can you give a link to the monitor
    Do you just plug in or do you need it installed

    Something like these
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Efergy-Technologies-ELITE-CLASSIC-4-0/dp/B001Q1G4WK/
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Efergy-Wireless-CT-Transmitter-White/dp/B010BP7K5G/

    I dont have those myself so Im not recommending those exact ones, its just an example but they all work on similar principle.... There is no install/wiring required. You just put the clamp around your incoming mains cable in your meter box and it captures and stores all the data which you can then review from the reports on a daily/weekly/monthly basis via an App.


    A low tech alternative is take regular readings of your day/night meter. Anything used by day is obviously what you would be trying to offset with SolarPV.
    Its not as good as having the energy monitor as you dont know if your day usage is bunched up in a couple of hours in the morning or if there is a wide spread of usage across the day... the energy monitor will give you that info and that would feed into decisions around where to place your panels (East-West or all South etc).


  • #66
    Western Pomise
    Registered Users Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭Western Pomise


    With all the talk of electricity price hikes I said I would stick this up here.....we are with Energia for last 3 or 4 years....have to admit I would not be the greatest for keeping up with best offers,a door to door Energia salesman called to the house the other day,we get paper bills and pay by direct debit.....call me old fashioned but I like to get the bill into my hand to see what's going out:)

    Basically he said to show him a recent bill.....have separate Farm and House bills.....he said he was signing up 'new' customers at a 27% discount in the area but you had to go to paperless billing.....and that really best he could do for us was a 10% discount with paperless billing.....but that if we rang Energia ourselves quoting our MPRN we could say our neighbours got 27% off and we expect same or we are going to leave them.

    Just popped onto Bonkers.ie and inputted our details and a 'one year retention' paperless deal from Energia comes in with a 41% discount.It says that it factors in the upcoming Energia price increase on 18th October to savings figure of €650 that we would get on house bill.

    Is this typical of the kind of discounts the electricity companies offer you to stay with them?.....wondering to myself if it's worth me ringing Energia or will I just go with the Bonkers.ie deal.



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  • #67
    cute geoge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    I get the paper bill from energia ,go with bonkers and you still can get the paper bill ,the bill will show you units used at full cost with the discount under it without showing the actual % discount so you better check this out when you get the bill .The discount runs out after 12 months so you switch to someone else or else bargain and renew with energia



  • #68
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,823 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Energia have a cap on units used at discounted price. Gone with electric Ireland here last week through bonkers



  • #69
    Western Pomise
    Registered Users Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭Western Pomise


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958198#Comment_117958198

    Thanks Whelan.....funnily enough the Energia Salesman forgot to tell me that!.....



  • #70
    Western Pomise
    Registered Users Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭Western Pomise


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958194#Comment_117958194

    Thanks for reply.....so are you referring to your current bill you get and how it has discount quoted on it?....How would you check the discount %?.....just get the calculator out or contact Energia to get them to check it iykwim?

    How can you opt to still get Paper bill with Bonkers.ie?



  • #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I only recently discovered night rate hours are at the moment 2am to 9am

    When the clocks go back at the end of next month that will be 1 am to 8am

    The 9am in summer is handy


    Night rate is 7 hours

    We have an ice cooler that was building ice midnight to 4am on the mistaken belief that the compressors were running at night rate

    Most of that ice was built at full day rates

    So adjust your timers accordingly folks



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  • #72
    cute geoge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    I just switched trough bonkers probably just did not email energia back when they sent me email to confirm I was joining them for paperless billing .you have get calculator to check discount rate because I could not see where the 41% was.There night rate has a limit at discount price but this is 1000 units a mounth so would not be over it much



  • #73
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958357#Comment_117958357

    Where did you find this out?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958692#Comment_117958692

    Main ESB networks site

    It was news to me


    https://www.electricireland.com/residential/help/billing/i-have-a-day-night-meter-what-time-does-the-night-rate-start



  • #75
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958357#Comment_117958357

    Thats for Northern Ireland, not the republic.


    In the republic the night rate is 9hr and is approximately between 11pm-8am (winter) and 12am-9am (summer)



  • #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959526#Comment_117959526

    Correct 😱

    Google is not my friend,when the 1st link it brings up is electric Ireland for NI and the Republic's further down the results 👇

    https://www.electricireland.ie/news/article/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-nightsaver-meter



  • #77
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,823 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959602#Comment_117959602

    That was a terrible error



  • #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960265#Comment_117960265

    Yes,I think I shall be writing to Google by registered post a letter of complaint for their agregious error 😂



  • #79
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959602#Comment_117959602

    Well, on a positive note, your compressor was running at the right time!

    One small word of warning though... you probably should look at the time on your meter vs actual time and then set your timers based on the meter clock, not your watch. You have the ice maker set for midnight which might actually be before the meter clock hits night rate (which is always 11pm on the meter as it does not move back/forward like our watches do).

    The meter clocks can be significantly out in terms of time accuracy so worth a check.... alternatively just set your ice maker to 1am-5am.... should be safe enough then.



  • #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960747#Comment_117960747

    Its a smart meter we have now,installed about a month ago

    It sends a text to the ESB around midnight every night I believe with the latest reading

    I would imagine it's clock would be bang on



  • #81
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960944#Comment_117960944

    True, smart meter would/should be accurate alright as it’s internet connected so will keep its clock in sync.


    The smart meter plans are bad value for money though. What day and night unit rate are you paying?



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  • #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961003#Comment_117961003

    17/8 approx Energia

    I haven't looked at moving yet

    They have a monthly cap for that price which so far we've stayed about a 100 under at peak



  • #83
    longgonesilver
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭longgonesilver


    Old style Night Rate Heating mechanical time-clocks used for night rate storage heating used to be deliberately set to be a few minutes fast or slow so that the switch on (or off) occurred at slightly different times in houses across the network so as to prevent voltage drops or spikes as all the heaters in the country came on together. You still got your nine hours. The one in the house here stopped in a long powercut one time and was about eight hour out.



  • #84
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962134#Comment_117962134

    Not sure how you are getting that rate on a smart plan.

    If you go to Energia's website and select rural and a smart meter the best it will give you is 17.17/13.08/17.99 for day/night/peak. The night rates are crap on smart meter plans.

    The last time I asked (admittedly a good few months back) they would not give you the normal day/night rate if you had a smart meter. Things must have changed if you have a smart meter and they are giving you normal day/night rates.



  • #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963289#Comment_117963289

    I'm not on a smart meter plan

    I'm on a negotiated affinity deal rate with Energia

    The reason I have a smart meter is because our old meter broke

    As I understand it,we will have no more meter reader visits and I can log into my energia account and view the ups and downs and nitty gritty detail of the electricity usage here now

    This I haven't done yet



  • #86
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963610#Comment_117963610

    The reason I have a smart meter is because our old meter broke

    I'll be interested to hear how you get on with your first bill and when you go to renew your 12 month contract. I know some suppliers wont give the day/night rate if you have a smart meter. Let us know how that goes when you switch provider.



  • #87
    minerleague
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭minerleague


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961003#Comment_117961003

    Hi there, supposed to be getting smart meter installed next week ( thought they were being installed everywhere ) Are there downsides and have you a choice not to have one ?



  • #88
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966640#Comment_117966640

    They are being installed everywhere over the next few years but you dont have to accept it. You can tell them you are happy with your existing meter as long as its working ok.

    Take a look at the smart meter plans. They are not good value for money right now, so thats the downside.



  • #89
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117967398#Comment_117967398

    You don't have to be on a smart meter plan to have a smart meter

    You can have one and be on any tariff you like

    All new installations are smart meters as are all replacements

    Theres no advantage except it saves esb meter reading resources and you get a deep analysis of your use

    I have not looked at smart meter plans at all but going on what you've said am shocked that they are not promoting energy efficiency

    It seems counter intuitive


    https://www.bonkers.ie/blog/gas-electricity/smart-meter-tariffs-here-s-everything-you-need-to-know/



  • #90
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117308485#Comment_117308485
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117308553#Comment_117308553

    Or is d it that when a team a tank is only partially full the rest of the tank is air you are cooling, this escapes and warmer air entering has to be cooled again.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • #91
    Hard Knocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117968086#Comment_117968086

    Is there an app for the smart meter to break down usage



  • #92
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117969391#Comment_117969391

    I spoke to Energia

    You can only view that information if you are on a smart plan

    It shows up in your online account

    Once you switch to a smart tariff though,they said you are on it for good,even if you change supplier

    You will be put on one of your new suppliers smart tariffs or choose

    The limit of day unts per month with them is 1500 kW and for night 1000

    So in theory you can use 2500kw pm

    The penalty seems to be 2c per kilowatt hour


    They confirmed my smart meter would be sending the readings automatically every night,so on a smart plan you can see your usage in 30 min intervals


    They have different rates for peak,off peak and night on smart rates

    20211004_155307.jpg




  • #93
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,043 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    16337173800632727644882601207013.jpg

    That's for the farm(well is under the house bill). It seems a bit saucy?



  • #94
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,823 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Your day rate is very high



  • #95
    jaymla627
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994704#Comment_117994704

    Paying 17 cent day rate and 7 cent night rate with electric Ireland but they have a 10% increase since, your discount puts you back to not far off the above rates, only changed last month and that was the best on offer



  • #96
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,043 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    I thought it was high, changed last year in November



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  • #97
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994704#Comment_117994704

    What the hell is going on there re the meter readings?

    Bug in the system?



  • #98
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,043 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994867#Comment_117994867

    What he mean?



  • #99
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994873#Comment_117994873

    Take your day usage, previous is 1553 and present is 1656, that's 103 kwh but your being charged for 3000 odd.


    Ahh you have a multiplier on it.



  • #100
    Darc19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994736#Comment_117994736

    That's the new rate I would guess, but poster is getting 40% off which softens the impact



  • #101
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    I only changed provider there lately, but I think I read that it only costs 50euro to break contract if you want to leave before the 12 months is up… I had thought it was more.

    You’d have to do the sums, but with all these supposed increases coming might be worth keeping in mind…



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