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Anti-British Xenophobia and Hatred in Ireland

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,903 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    There was plenty of food in the country (and plenty more exported) problem was that most people couldn't afford it and the government didn't want to know.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,418 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I thought this was a joke. That's basically English Exceptionalism in a nutshell.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    As you say there was plenty of food in he country but people could not afford it. The reason is poverty which was bad in Ireland pre-famine. The reason, too many people chasing too few jobs in an agrarian economy.

    I do not condone the elite's actions but -

    Potato blight happened in many places in Western Europe, only in Ireland was it devastating.

    Scotland in many ways similar to Ireland (also had a potato blight) had a population of 2.8M at the time - one third the population of Ireland



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You are missing many of the demographic process which led to a country becoming dependent on a single crop (just about all caused by the British Landlords) that its scary and hard to begin to explain why you statement is so uttery off the mark. The potato famine was the cummulation of 600 years of racists colonialism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    You have to remember the poverty of the Irish Catholic population was a deliberate policy aim of the UK government, as expressed in the penal laws. The aim was to reduce the majority of the Irish population into a desperately poor, subsistence existence and the penal laws were very successful at achieving that result. In such circumstances, an event like the famine was merely a matter of time.

    As you say, potato blights and crop failures were common. They had occurred in Ireland before. In such times, to prevent unrest, the Irish parliament had closed ports to prevent the export of food forcing its sale in Ireland to mitigate the worst effects of the potato crop failure. After the act of union in 1800, the legislative power moved to London where politicians were ideologically convinced of the purity of free markets and free trade. So when the crops failed in the 1840s a) The majority of MPs couldn't care less. Ireland was a foreign country in their minds. Some UK civil servants, like Trevelyan, considered the famine to be a good thing. b) To the extent they did consider the problem, preventing exports from Ireland was ideologically impossible for them.

    However, the malicious indifference of the UK political aristocracy of the 19th century isn't a good reason to harbour grudges against the British generally or the English specifically in the 21st century. The same UK political aristocracy unleashed a heavy cavalry charge against 60,000 English people protesting for parliamentary reforms in 1819, killing 18 unarmed people in the "Battle of Peterloo". We were all victims of the same regime.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭green daries


    In one of those great English slang words bellend



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    Ok I am prepared for scary and hard - explain to me why my statement is so utterly off the mark.



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sand already did. However on top of what he said the British landlords displaced most of the native Irish to the poor land on the west of Ireland so they could use the good eastern land for more profitable farming. This meant that many Irish families were living on less than 1 acre of land to meet all their needs, the miracle potato just about allowed this but it was a ticking time bomb which exploded with the blight. The British did very little to intervene due to their racism and ideological objection to interfering in markets so millions died and left the country. As pointed out this didn't happen previously under a devolved parliament so there was literally nothing the Irish population could do to respond.


    Its difficult to convey just how offensive it is to even suggest that it was somehow the Irish's own fault.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,739 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    That’s pretty meaningless considering the vast majority of that 8 million people were living in extreme poverty on half acre plots of land.

    Population size is misleading. We were no where near militarily putting it up to the Brits in the 19th century .


    The huge population of the 19th century did make a huge impact and enhance massively the US diaspora. Which is crucial to our soft power. Something that dumbfounds the Brits to this today.



  • Posts: 519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Never borrow money from someone who will bring it up again and again and again forever and somehow never remember it was bailed out by IMF in the 1970s itself, in fact being the first developed country ever to have been down that path.



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  • Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It wasn’t. There is a belief in iteland that all Irish Catholics were living in mud huts eating nothing but potatoes and Protestants (who be default aren’t really Irish) were all living in palaces eating steak and sipping champagne.

    landlords typically lived in the big house and gardens, but rented the rest of their land out to an estate manager or middleman. They farmed some of the land themselves and rented the rest out to other, smaller tenant farmers who in turn rented parts out to cottiers, who paid their rent in Labour and worked on the farmers land

    It was the cottiers, who were the poorest of the poor, that were dependent on the potato. These were subsistence farmers who lived on a small plot of land and had a staple diet of potatoes and milk, which for the day was a pretty healthy diet. Having a healthy diet meant lower mortality rates and a rise in population.

    This was also also the subset of the population who were more or less wiped out by the famine. Money did not exist at this end of the population, as they didn’t earn at and if they needed something, they bartered for it, so when their main food source was wiped out, they had no way of feeding themselves.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But I think the main take home message should be that the British could have intervened to prevent most of the deaths - but they chose not to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I wonder about the British education system. A large number of their society seen to be knuckle daggers.



  • Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They did intervene. They set up work programmes and soup kitchens.

    what they should have done, is to stop people exporting food out of Ireland rather than sell it to the work houses. Work houses saw a massive increase in the cost of food as people started horsing and effectively price gouging.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,954 ✭✭✭indioblack


    Draggers.

    It does make me wonder.

    It's probably because of your intellectual superiority and innate modesty.

    And the ability to avoid careless generalisations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,923 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    You obviously don't know the background to all this. But this isn't simply Irish history. It's British history that's been swept under the carpet. Britain has white washed it's own history.

    But it explains why people in the UK are often very confused why not everyone else sees them as the good guys in history. You can't learn from the past if you ignore it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,923 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    "...If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.."

    This happened all over the world. Indigenous people pushed off their own land. Was culturally acceptable at that time. What's surprising that it went on for so long and still reverberates in NI. Yet there's almost no awareness of this British history in Britain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    Did you actually read what I said.

    • I do not condone the elite's actions
    • overpopulation was one of the reasons why the potato blight / famine was so devastating in Ireland.

    I am more than happy to discuss this if you are up to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,954 ✭✭✭indioblack


    I'll wager you know all the background to this.

    I've read some of this history.

    It was in a book.

    Bought it in England.

    Covered in whitewash it was.



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why then did the blight not effect the English population (similar size at the time) equally as badly - your blocking the context from your analysis. Ireland could have fed everyone in the country if that had been the wish. An active choice was made to let them starve. I bet the framing is Westminster was "a natural solution to the Irish problem". This was the golden age of eugenics thinking.



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  • Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In England, there were nowhere near as many subsistence farmers dependent on the potato for starters.

    you also have to ask, if wiping out the Irish was the goal, how come so many were allowed to resettle in Britain? Surely if you want to wipe out an entire people, letting them move to your back yard isn’t a particularly good idea?

    and what of the people who exported food, who were they and why do they not get any criticism? Is it because their descendants are still here and it is much easier to point eastwards and declare “it was all their fault”?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,923 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Again why so many subsistance farmers - 600 years of colonial occupation and intentional policy. If the Eastern farmers were allowed to export during the famine why the hell wouldn't they. If they kept the food in Ireland without any supports from Westminster they would likely have gone bankrupt. It all comes back to context and the apologists here want to wash over that context.


    The English as a whole are not bad but they have two major faults:

    -their ruling class have tended to be viciously callous of their citizens wellbeing, with the further away from been English the more callous they become

    -the population as a whole are very ignorant of their own real history which allows them to go along with their ruling class even when it is against their own best interest and common decency



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,923 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I thought discussing it was what we were doing. What does up for it mean?



  • Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Partly because of the system, partly because there had been a massive population increase, particularly in the cottier class. It was a situation that was already unsustainable and the potato blight ripped it over the edge.

    and the only reason for was exported was for profit. A lot of people made a shed load of money during the famine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,506 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    There has to be consequences for utter stupidity otherwise people won't ever learn.

    Brexit affected my life negativity in very direct ways but I will still laugh my hole off at the nationalistic Brexit voting clowns get their comeuppance. Fell sorry for the other 48% though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,373 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Go away out of that, the Irish breed like rabbits -> overpopulation as Bobby (I think) explained. As also pointed out, the Irish peasants relied on one crop. This was because they were handicapped by the twin evils of low intelligence in combination with a backward and ignorant culture unlike the English farmers. People don't like these hard truths so they try to blame the British rulers unfairly, contributing to the massive amount of "Anti Britsh Xenophobia and Hatred in Ireland" to this day. These rulers only ever tried to help the benighted natives of this land and bring them them railways, well fitting suits, flushing toilets, and common law and stuff. Thankfully despite the hatred stirred up by myths about the causes of the potato famine, some British still travel west and live here in the darkness to bring the sparks of civilisation and knowledge to us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,770 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Historians have come around to this point of view, yes. Westminster made a decision that it 'would be no bad thing' if the Irish population dropped by a couple of million. Not that they planned the famine, but it was seen as not entirely unwelcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    The blight did impact the Scottish highlands but as you can see the population at risk was 200K

    In the Scottish Highlands, in 1846, there was widespread failure of potato crops as a result of potato blight. Crops failed in about three-quarters of the crofting region, putting a population of about 200,000 at risk; the following winter was especially cold and snowy and the death rate rose significantly. The Free Church of Scotland, strong in the affected areas, was prompt in raising the alarm and in organising relief, being the only body actively doing so in late 1846 and early 1847; relief was given regardless of denomination. Additionally, the Free Church organised transport for over 3,000 men from the famine-struck regions to work on the Lowland railways. This both removed people who needed to be fed from the area and provided money for their families to buy food.[3]:




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  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Seldom have I read such overt racism against the Irish, again devoid totally of the context of colonialism.



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