New Bike - Is it worth Spending Loads?

Seth Brundle · 23-09-2021 4:18pm #1

My road bike is an 2019 Orbea Orca M30; fully carbon with a 105 groupset. It cost me €1800 and in the few years owes me nothing! I've over 20k kms done on it. To be honest, it is a great bike!

Parts are starting to suffer from wear and tear (large chain ring recently replaced and new left shifter ordered yesterday) and I've a new set of Scribes (Pace) due in a week or two.

I'm looking to get n+1 using the BTW scheme and haven't a clue what to get and this is where my problem is. Is it actually worth spending loads of money (€3-4k) on another bike?

Is an aero bike worth it - am I actually going to go any faster than I currently do?

Is it actually worthwhile moving up to Ultegra or Dura Ace compared to using 105? What about going down the Di2 route?

I know with any bike, wheels are an important aspect so for the moment, I guess let's focus on the rest of the bike.

Am I paying for tangible benefits or just brands and aesthetics?

pairofpears · 23-09-2021 4:29pm

You are paying for the Brand name with most. Cube have a nice Ultegra at circa €2200 and if I was in the market I would go for that. I run Ultegra on both bikes but usually use 105 cassettes and chains due to the price difference but the extra weight doesnt change the fact its a harder wearing cassette.

You could buy a new Cube with 105 and then spend the money saved off a Trek on a set of handbuilt disc wheels.

What about changing to a gravel or CX bike to give you a different option for cycling as either one of those would let you mount panniers and do some bike packing.

magicbastarder · 23-09-2021 4:59pm

do you want to go faster or do you want to look cooler?

lissard · 23-09-2021 5:07pm

I have a similar spec bike to yours (carbon, 105 etc...). I might be open to correction here but my understanding is that 105 is mechanically the same a Ultegra - the difference being some parts are carbon on Ultegra. When my drivetrain wears out I think I'll just replace like for like - a few hundred grams saving pales into insignificance compared to the heavy lump that I am. When my BTW came up last year I decided on a hardtail MTB, turned out to be a good call particularly over winter. I found it complementary to the road cycling as my club has a pretty active off-road crew.

Seth Brundle · 23-09-2021 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929721#Comment_117929721

I plan on another road bike (not sure if I want a gravel or CX) for club spins and the like and use the current bike more for commuting. I understand the logic behid the cost differences but when you see some bikes and the higher spec one is hundreds more than its sibling, I can't figure it out. I guess there's an element of exclusivity to it.

Looking at pTrek prices in one retailer, the Domane SL 5 (105 groupset) is between €2,899.00 and €3,199.00 whereas the Domane SL 6 (Ultegra) is between €3,799.00 and €4,199.00. I know the SL6 has better rims but I think that's the only other difference. Is that worth the extra money?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929868#Comment_117929868

I'm frequently informed by my kids that I'm not cool! Sure my trousers cover my ankles and when wearing jeans I wear socks that go higher than the top of my shoe. I'm after speed!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929905#Comment_117929905

I kinda agree and am wondering if spending more for the "performance" stuff will benefit my image more than my performace and as already mentioned, I don't have an image of any worth. The weight difference between 105 and Ultegra is something like 280g. That's about half a bidon, so nothing really.

I have a hardtail hybrid which I am using more and more but don't see myself replacing it.

tomfoolery60 · 23-09-2021 8:27pm

Why are Cubes so much better value? Is it really just the name?

24-09-2021 7:07am

Very similar to you OP. I have a 2019 entry level Cube that is starting to cost me money as I have done about 15k on it through three winters. Didn't look after it as much as I should until this year and I'm now looking to replace/upgrade and keep the old one as a winter bike. I can't decide what I need and how much to spend.

CantGetNoSleep · 24-09-2021 7:07am

My two main bikes are a Cannondale Synapse 105 disc which cost me 1199€ in 2018, and a Giant TCR Ultegra Di2 disc which cost me 4000€ in the middle of the first lockdown before bike sales went crazy. Both were good deals and you wouldn't get them for that price now, especially the Synapse.

The TCR feels a bit more nimble, it's maybe a kilo lighter, has slightly more aero wheels, and Di2 is a nice to have, but at the end of the day I can keep up with the same club groups as easily on either, and if I was ever short of money I'd sell the TCR and it would maybe impact my enjoyment of cycling 5-10%.

I'd go for whatever geometry you feel most comfortable with (endurance, race, aero) and whatever bike looks nice at a good price with a minimum 105 groupset. Maybe keep some budget for a wheelset upgrade depending on what comes stock.

Only thing to watch is weight - some of the new disc road bikes are pushing 10kg (and I'm not talking about the cheapest bikes)

Macy0161 · 24-09-2021 10:07am

Never used Di2, but for what it's worth, I don't get any real performance difference on the mechanical versions of 105 on my Alu Defy and my ultegra TCR. Or for that matter the latest iteration (I think) Tiagra which is on my gravel bike (Topstone).

I upgraded from the Defy as I wanted carbon and slightly more racey geometry. If I could've fit wider tyres (or even high volume 32's) to the defy, I probably wouldn't have brought a Gravel bike to be honest - the load of tyres in the shed shows I really did try!

I actually would like discs for the road bike, but can't really justify an upgrade to be honest. I love my 2018 TCR, even on the stock wheels - winter/ spring I'll be looking to upgrade them.

tl:dr Steel is Real (I wistfully look at Donard bikes posts on facebook...)

fat bloke · 24-09-2021 10:27am

I simply cannot reconcile myself with the current market. Prices are gone crazy and modern expensive bikes are unacceptably heavy. So unfortunately, spending "loads" doesn't necessarily get you the performance or top end componentry you would have expected in the recent past.

My money is wholly on the 2nd hand market. The window is closing for picking up an absolute top end previous-gen, pre-disk brake, peak-bicycle. Cos the next gen of sub 6.5kg bikes are gonna cost you 15 grand+.

Seth Brundle · 24-09-2021 10:31am

From what I'm hearing, there isn't any real benefit to the Ultegra or Dura Ace over 105. I'd like to be doing a lot more hills and would like to do them quickly. Obviously, the big factor in that is me but I'd like a bike that enjoys going off the horizontal.

I've had to drive to work today so I plan on making the most of having the car and might head over to WheelWorx and Base2Race and see what they have & will be getting in soon (it's better than working!)

ednwireland · 24-09-2021 10:34am

glad i bought my Di2 cannondale synapse early 2020 great bike but not sure i would have bought it at 1k+ more ! that replaced an 11 year old focus, its a serious setup up from the entry level focus

just picked up and 9 year old full suspension mtb a couple of months ago for 500 which for the amount i use a mtb was perfect, needed some new bits but its a hoot to ride ! (that replaced a knackered 25 year old orange !) and it only has 26 inch wheels , 9 speed bits are relatively cheap as well 😁

MangleBadger · 24-09-2021 10:37am

I have an entry level Cube Attain with Sora. And it has served me very well. But I'm also getting an itch for upgrading. Unfortunately 2 of the items I want on my new bike are DI2 and an integrated cockpit(or at least hidden cables).

This makes my next bike look pretty expensive. Just bought a house so new bike probably not on the cards until 2023. In the meantime I will probably look at moving from Sora to 105 as I have never been able to get smooth shifting across the entire cassette.

marvin80 · 24-09-2021 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932225#Comment_117932225

I switched from my first bike with Sora to a new bike with 105 - massive difference.

Macy0161 · 24-09-2021 11:03am

I think you do have to be a bit careful just comparing older groupsets to more modern iterations of the same group set. The tech does filter down, so this years Tiagra is like 2 years old 105. Same applies to Tiagra v Sora. For example, 105 and Tiagra hydraulic shifters/ hoods had a very poor reputation for being uncomfortable - shimano fixed that at the last upgrade.

fat bloke · 24-09-2021 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932358#Comment_117932358

Careful is right!

See the new sram rival axs groupset is 3.5 kg in weight???!! My ten year old SRAM red is 1650g. - Is that progress?

cletus · 24-09-2021 11:49am

Unless the bike/equipment will be used in a competitve/commercial/other performace based arena, the only person who can justify (or not) the cost is yourself. If you have the money to spend, and it's something you want, then go for it. If you can look at features that you may not need/are willing sacrifice, then the cheaper options become more palatable. I think this goes for anything you are looking to buy or invest in.

Prime example, I recently bought a tent for bikepacking/overnight kayaking etc. I looked at the Big Agnes Fly Creek, but just couldn't justify the cost to myself. I could 'afford it', insofar as I could put the money together for it, but I opted for a Naturehike Cloud Up instead, as I felt the difference in cost could be better spent.

I'm contemplating a new bike in January myself, and apart from the fact that prices are actively increasing for bikes online over the course of weeks in some cases, the biggest issue is looking at the next step up in the range for the bike you're interested in. It's very easy to tell yourself "for a few hundred more I could have..."

joey100 · 24-09-2021 11:56am

If it were me I'd go for the frame you like the best over the components. If you keep the bike as long as your older one you will probably end up changing most of them anyway. Frame is the key for me, one that fits.

Fatbloke, I think your being a bit generous with your weight of your SRAM red vs the new rival. I'd guess the rival includes chain, hoses, cassette, BB. It's still an anchor of a groupset and not one I'd go near myself, but I can't ever say I've seen a full (including BB, chain, cassette, cables) red groupset coming in at that weight!

magicbastarder · 24-09-2021 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932596#Comment_117932596

is your sram red hydraulic or mechanical brakes? and electronic or cable shifting?

Galego · 24-09-2021 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058210165/new-bike-is-it-worth-spending-loads

My answers to some of your questions based on my experience.

1- Is it worth spending loads? No, it is not worthy.

2- Is the aero bike going to make me go faster? Not significantly. The biggest object in the bike is your body. Get in a more aero position which you can sustain and keep your power and you will def go faster.

3- Are wheels important? Yes, this is where my money would go if I were you.

I think the basis are:

Light enough carbon frame (old frames seem to be lighter as someone else mentioned)
Ultegra/105 groupset (not much difference in those two since shimano introduced 5800/6800)
Good/decent carbon wheels
Keep the bike clean and well maintained

I prefer a mechanical groupset and rim brakes but that is just my preference.

I personally think but bike industry in order to keep selling bikes has gone for fancy unnecessary stuff like di2 etc.......but most of these things do not make any significant performance differences. Unless you are a pro and need those extra marginal gains! :-)

24-09-2021 12:03pm

You also have to factor the ongoing cost of replacing components if they break or wear out. The cost of some of the highest end stuff regardless of manufacturer would make your eyes water.

Whyner · 24-09-2021 12:03pm

I bought a Canyon Ultimate SLX last year, got it in the outlet section down from 7k - 6k, I lost so much sleep over it once I hit the purchase button, now I'm thinking it was a savage bargain. 6.5kg SRAM Red etap, powermeter and 50mm DT Swiss, a lot of bike. Raced it all season and absolutely loved it, she'll be turned in for hibernation soon and will be dearly missed

I'm not blown away by electronic shifting, I don't see any advantage over mechanical Ultegra. Love everything else

I deffo benfited from the lightness on Hill TTs and felt like (cause who knows) I benefited from the wheels in sprint finishes

So is worth spending loads?

Yes, if you're going to use it a lot and get excited walking out to the shed

Luxman · 24-09-2021 12:09pm

I used to spend ages indexing a very old Ultegra groupset, after some research I realised it wasn't just me, it was just badly designed, I skipped the more modern mechanical Ultegra on my next bike and went with di2, game changer for me. I love it. That was a few years ago and my most recent purchase, second hand Look had newer di2 and disc brakes. Now disc brakes were not my first choice but as the bike was second hand I had to move with the times. Yes they are good, very good in fact but would be quite happy with rim brakes. Between the two bikes I cannot tell if Im faster, but I do enjoy the summer bike more, maybe because its sunny and warm out when Im on it, who knows. I would recommend di2 but not necessarily disc brakes based on my experience. Bottom line is as long as you're happy on it.

magicbastarder · 24-09-2021 12:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932596#Comment_117932596

also, this link puts AXS (e-tap, hydraulic) at 3.2kg, not 3.5kg:

https://thebikelane.com.au/2015/06/2015-road-groupset-weights/

and any link i can find for red from 10 years ago puts it at 1950g, not 1650g? and that seems to be mechanical brake and shifting, so you're not comparing like with like at all there.

fat bloke · 24-09-2021 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932651#Comment_117932651

Ok, a small pinch of salt with that claim, but not by much - claimed weight is 1,739g. There is no groupset, at any money, available now that is less than 2kg. But that rival weight is unconscionable. And like it or not, that's what you're going to be getting on your 4 grand bike in the coming years - bling electronic and apps to pair with your phone so you can count your gear changes, to distract from the extra pork pies you've to carry up hill and down dale.

fat bloke · 24-09-2021 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932732#Comment_117932732

Well your link above actually puts sram red 22 ar 1741g, mine is the second gen 10 speed, which was lighter. When everyone else went 11 speed, sram stayed at 10 and just seriously shredded the weight.

I'd argue I'm exactly comparing like with like. It's groupset v groupset. In its day that sram red was packaged on bikes costing 3 to 5 thousand euro. Here's a list of some of the bikes being built up with that rival axs groupset for next year, all costing between 4 and 7 thousand pounds sterling. There's one thing sure, if you value your bike in grams then there's absolutely fantastic value on the horizon! :D

https://road.cc/content/tech-news/17-bikes-equipped-sram-rival-etap-axs-groupsets-282555

fat bloke · 24-09-2021 12:53pm

https://road.cc/content/news/77152-just-sram-red-2013-groupset

Here it is! 1670g. I knew I wasn't hallucinating.

Anyway, whatever about a gram here or there. It's super light. I bought two bikes with it on in 2012. They're both shifting away merrily without a click or a creak. An absolutely awesome, awesome, awesome groupset.

Mr. Cats · 24-09-2021 1:26pm

On di2, I always think of it as an unnecessary luxury that I would recommend. I don’t think it aids performance, it has a little bit easier maintenance (no cable changing, indexing is simple) but the main thing for me is it just feels a bit nicer. So unnecessary? Yes. Recommended? Also yes if you have the budget.

ednwireland · 24-09-2021 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117933157#Comment_117933157

i love just hitting the button and it just hits the next gear, front or rear, especially on upshifts. hit an unexpected climb just hit the buttons it sorts it out, auto trim the front mech yep no bother. its waay too easy to get used to how good it is and forget until you jump on a cable bike😁

magicbastarder · 24-09-2021 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932990#Comment_117932990

aha, i went a generation older, took the ten year comment literally.

Seth Brundle · 24-09-2021 2:33pm

Took a few bikes for a spin over in Base2Race.

Loved the ride and look of this ORRO Gold Evo with a 105 groupset...

https://shop.base2race.ie/collections/orro/products/orro-gold-evo-disc-105

...but might go with this one...

https://shop.base2race.ie/collections/orro/products/orro-gold-stc-disc-ultegra?variant=37573619908803

Need to look at a few other brands to see if I'm making the right choice.

Mr. Cats · 24-09-2021 3:38pm

The metallic blue colour on first one is very nice indeed

fat bloke · 24-09-2021 4:55pm

I'm a big fan of Orro bikes, I think the quality of finish is superb.

Daroxtar · 24-09-2021 6:48pm

How do you find Base2Race for price? I checked out a set of wheels there a couple of years ago and thought they were very expensive so never went back.

Seth Brundle · 24-09-2021 7:30pm

For the likes of BMC and Orro, there isn't much competition in Ireland but I thought the prices were competitive.

It to prices will be increasing because of the customs rules changing recently from outside the EU (UK). On the STC I looked at, there will be another €500-€600 added to the price.

rolling boh · 25-09-2021 4:02pm

Think it depends on what level or speed you usually cycle at if you have the money to spare if you like a cetain bike then go ahead but in cycling like other things a lot of upgrades are not really that vital people just think they have to have them .As has been said the cost of replacing parts on high end bikes can be very costly so that would be a factor to consider .I see plenty out riding decent bikes not high end and they get great use from them the cost of the new ones seems to have gone up quite a bit most 105 groupsets seem to be 1600 plus and that is with fairly basic wheels on the bikes . I have a cube attain and agree which was three times the price obviously a better and quicker bike but for the price difference i would expect that have got great use of the attain .Having said that if i was cycling in a club or something the better bikes make keeping a faster pace a lot easier .

flatface · 25-09-2021 8:12pm

Your bike is 2019 that ain’t old!!

You have a carbon frame, 105 already so most new bikes are going to feel very similar unless you really spend cash. So make sure you can feel a decent exciting difference.

you could just bling up your current bike, fancy wheels could elevate it.

Seth Brundle · 25-09-2021 8:15pm

I know my current bike is great and an upgrade will be a tough choice. I already have a pair of Scribe wheels due in the next week or two.

For once, I've money burning a hole (plus a big birthday coming) and want to treat myself to n+1.

gn3dr · 26-09-2021 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932185#Comment_117932185

I think you are correct about that window and I've recently picked up a few things second hand like wheels and a bike for the turbo. My concern about buying second hand is around a frame - what kind of mileage has it done, has it been in a crash. With carbon it would be hard to tell if there was a flaw unless it was really obviously broken.

Also I'm quite fussy about keeping my bike mint and I see a lot of stuff for sale that is quite ratty looking which would bring me to question how well it was looked after.

For me peak bike is rim braked and lightweight and more specifically a Giant TCR. My summer bike is a TCR carbon (ONCE colour scheme) which I bought new as a frame and built up with Dura Ace 7800 back around 2003. If I needed to replace it I'd be looking at TCR again but checking recently I see the rim braked frame is €2900 😲. So that won't be happening. I think based on the buying trends of people that there probably wont be a top end TCR rim brake frame available in the next one or two generations.

So I think that if I really did need to look for a new carbon frame I'd be looking to China for one of the open mould frames you read about. e.g HongFu or DengFu or maybe on the more expensive end Winspace. A lot of these companies are making frames for the bigger companies anyway so there is some quality stuff out there for smaller money.

My winter bike is a Titanium XACD which I bought direct from China maybe 17 years ago and for a fraction the price of a Ti frame at the time. It's still going strong.

I also think that the current price trends should in theory open up the market a bit for custom builders - as long as they can hit a sensible price point.

flatface · 26-09-2021 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117939070#Comment_117939070

just saying you could drop 3k and have a bike that is much the same as your current. Consider a bike holiday too, or personal trainer, bike fit etc. all nice self present options!

magicbastarder · 26-09-2021 2:47pm

any clubmates around the same size with the sort of bike you'd be considering buying, who might lend one to you for a spin to see how much difference you notice?

Trekker09 · 27-09-2021 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117933557#Comment_117933557

Always liked the look of Orro bikes. The Red one in your link is lush

who_ru · 30-09-2021 8:39pm

from reading this thread it seems to me that most people are not buying bikes, maybe wheel sets, but not high end road bikes. OK gravel bikes are a big thing nowadays as are e bikes. But who exactly is buying all these high end bikes that are charging so much for the same as you got 2 years ago? i'm put off the bike industry with all this price gouging.

i wouldn't buy a 2nd hand carbon for the reasons mentioned by a previous poster, you don't know if there's a hairline fracture in the frame, doscovering that there is one in the front fork descending at 50kph wouldn't be nice.

i also have a 2019 carbon road bike, got new wheels for it this year, i don't have a 'winter' bike, s i don't do a lot of winter cycling.

but each to there own, spend what you want to on a bike.

Flaccus · 30-09-2021 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960701#Comment_117960701

Maybe not high end but in last 2 years I bought a Bianchi XR4 Oltre, BMC SLR01 Teammachine and Cannondale Super Six Evo. All new. Although Tier2 electronic groupsets. Ultegra Di2 and Etap Force AXS. And I have seen plenty of people in my LBS buying high end framesets (think Colnago C64, Cervello S5, Factor One) and getting them built up with Campy Super Record EPS and DuraAce Di2. There has already been a tonne of orders for 12 Speed DuraAce bikes (Scott and Bianchi mainly). So I guess people are buying high end bikes as business seems to be booming!! People often buy bikes on finance as well I have noticed.

fat bloke · 30-09-2021 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960930#Comment_117960930

They're certainly high end! Have you kept them all?

Flaccus · 30-09-2021 10:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961098#Comment_117961098

Only the Bianchi and BMC (though I changed out the groupset for Red). Just blinging out the Bianchi a bit now with matchy matchy stuff. Pics later. :) SS6 Evo was a pita with a badly designed frameset not really Axs compatible though sold with that groupset. When the chain was on the 10cog it would rub off the stays/rear dropouts!!. Plus lots of other niggles. Crap Cannondale warranty too.

New Bike - Is it worth Spending Loads?

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