FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Cluedo Monopoly · 21-09-2021 09:37AM

M Martin seems to be bristling when asked about Zappone in NYC. It's following the government around like a bad smell.

He does not want to meet her. The leak investigation must be going well so 😋

blanch152 · 21-09-2021 10:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918276#Comment_117918276

I think the biggest problem with your analysis is that you assume that there is such a thing as "Leo's crew". It certainly exposes a way of thinking about debate on these fora.

You also seem to expect others then to comment on things just because you want them to, and if they are spending the weekend with the family, or kicking a ball, suddenly their absence in real life means something on this anonymous forum. I just don't understand this mentality.

Your linkage of FG to far right loons smacks as a desperate attempt to play down the homophobic abuse and indulge yourself in a blame the victim approach, which I think comes from a particular obsession with the particular victim in this case. All rather sad, that you couldn't just condemn the abuse. It was particularly nauseating the way your posts introduced the victim-blaming aspect.

Let us be clear, the homophobic abuse of Varadkar outside his home was completely wrong, the fact that some of those retweeting it had Ivory Coast flags on their Twitter handle doesn't automatically make them supporters of SF and whatever tenuous links in your head that FG have with the DUP (in real life, there are none) had absolutely zero to do with the homophobic abuse.

McMurphy · 21-09-2021 10:32AM

Let us be clear, the homophobic abuse of Varadkar outside his home was completely wrong, the fact that some of those retweeting it had Ivory Coast flags on their Twitter handle doesn't automatically make them supporters of SF and whatever tenuous links in your head that FG have with the DUP (in real life, there are none) had absolutely zero to do with the homophobic abuse.

Another epic haymaker.

Maybe they were bot accounts of Leo's?

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/leo-varadkars-embarrassing-tricolour-gaffe-as-he-wishes-joe-schmidts-ireland-all-the-best-in-quest-for-grand-slam-36714967.html

However, Twitter users were quick to point out that Leo used an Ivory Coast flag in place of the tricolour. In his next tweet, the Irish flag was used correctly, but an American football icon was used instead of a rugby ball.

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/974967131833020416?s=19

21-09-2021 11:17AM

This is not a pop at anyone, it's an important point to do with social media, has anyone anything to say about government or opposition policy?

The thread is full of triumphalism, gossip, vulgar nicknames, borderline bullying, mild conspiracy theories, posters projecting their own issues onto a political party or an individual politician.

Bubbaclaus · 21-09-2021 11:33AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918728#Comment_117918728

I've pointed this out many times on here. There's very little interest in discussing actually policy in this forum, anytime I try to bring something up as a topic it is typically met with a 'smart' remark in response. I've given up on that for the most part (although sometimes I get forgetful and try again, only to be reminded why I stopped).

I would imagine it's why these threads have become the same few people arguing back and forth, where most of it is just digs between posters and nothing to do with the actual thread topic. People wanting a genuine discussion just can't be bothered to deal with that.

Shebean · 21-09-2021 02:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918503#Comment_117918503

You end your comments by engaging in what you accuse others of at the start of your comments. Superb circular wordage.

The overly religious, antisemetic and homophobic have more support on the right. Today we call it far right, but not so long ago it would have been the norm in the state and FG and FF would have been in the thick of it. So I wouldn't be lifting up the 'blame Sinn Fein' rock if I were you.

Shebean · 21-09-2021 02:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918555#Comment_117918555

Brilliant, just brilliant.

His handlers must be sweating buckets anytime he picks up his mobile.

blanch152 · 21-09-2021 02:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117919613#Comment_117919613

I have commented before on these boards about the attraction of the Horseshoe Theory to describing Irish politics. Those on the far left (SF, PBP) have much more in common with those on the far right (Aontu, National Party) than either group do with the centre (FF, FG, Greens, Labour, SDs).

Shebean · 21-09-2021 02:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918728#Comment_117918728

The problem is if you comment on government policy in a negative manner even citing articles to back up your opinion, others will come in and make it about SF and in some extreme cases go on to talk about the IRA. TBF, we see that at the highest levels too.

In this instance there were the protests outside Varadkar's house where animals shouting ignorant slurs. We all roundly condemned it. Then some tried to make it about SF and around we go.

Shebean · 21-09-2021 02:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117919658#Comment_117919658

So you accept you accused the poster in your opening of what you engaged in in your closing?

blanch152 · 21-09-2021 02:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117919723#Comment_117919723

Say what? Are we discussion different political theories and relevance to Irish politics, or are you just having a go at a poster to try and defend another poster?

Let's be clear, there was an attempt made to turn the homophobic attack on Leo's house into a fake narrative of FG links with the far right, in order to detract from the seriousness of the homophobic attack, which has been shown for what it was. There was also an attempt to flame the debate by referring to a group of posters on here as "Leo's crew". Both of those are far far distant from a comment by me on a much wider phenonemon on broader social media of Irish (and Ivory Coast) flags in Twitter and other handles.

Shebean · 21-09-2021 02:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117919783#Comment_117919783

I'm commenting on your comments where you accused a poster of trying to twist it to blame FG, you then went on to twist it to blame SF. In the same post no less.

The conversation was on what type of people would engage in such scurrilous activity. The left and SF were raised and it was pointed out traditionally in Ireland it was the right and religious right had issue with gay people, the poor and single mothers.

Is the Ivory Coast flag use a dig at Varadkar? While he was outspoken against gays having the same rights as everyone else, he hardly protested himself.

McMurphy · 21-09-2021 03:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117919783#Comment_117919783

No - yet again you are misreading posts. There was no inference from me that FG "links with the far right" had somehow attracted the horrible scenes outside Leo's home - I suspect you are purposely trying to paint a completely untrue scene here.

What I said was there was a distinct lack of posts here from the usual cohort complaining about what went on outside his home, and I suspect it's because MLMD outright condemned it almost immediately (so no political capital to be made) and also because it was far right loons responsible.

Evidence?

Didn't you open a thread about your man Holohan having a "homophobic attack" on Leo. Where's your thread about this?

Evidence of FG links with the Far right?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/entirely-inappropriate-anger-as-fine-gael-youth-leader-attends-us-right-wing-conference-38374027.html

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-links-to-viktor-orbans-right-wing-party-heavily-criticised-37825482.html

21-09-2021 03:49PM

It's actually gone peculiar at this stage I can't make head nor tail of it, it would be disturbing if some of the posters of whatever shade were actual political advisers or in any way connected to any TD or party.

Shebean · 21-09-2021 03:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920150#Comment_117920150

You and I were speaking on housing the other day. I posted articles for you which you didn't seem to read or misread. I clarified for you and you never responded. Such is the internet. I can't speak for everyone on here, but posting comments isn't a job. We are free to come and go.

I would suggest many politicians are in dire need of advisers to help stem the tide of gaffes, but they already have a lot of advisers, I'm just not sure what good they do.

blanch152 · 21-09-2021 03:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920092#Comment_117920092

So now I have to open a thread on every homophobic incident, no matter whether I am in the pub having a few pints or spending an afternoon with my family. If I don't, inferences will be drawn by every second conspiracy theorist that I don 't complain.

You are the one who keeps spinning a fake narrative about FG links with the far right.

Shebean · 21-09-2021 04:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920197#Comment_117920197

To be far, historically and in recent history FG have more in common with the right and far right. I think trying to link those protesting Varadkar to the left started all this. We can all agree they were wrong.

The religious extremists and others who thought gay people, single mothers and the poor were wrong and should be punished in some form were supported and covered for for generations by the state. We are bound to have some who still think that kind of behaviour was correct.

Floppybits · 21-09-2021 04:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920150#Comment_117920150

I wouldn't be surprised to find that some of the posters on here are affiliated or connected in some way to a party or TD.

21-09-2021 04:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920195#Comment_117920195

It's so extreme though, it's either party X is God and is going to both fix everything and simultaneously give party Y a triumphalist bringing down( that is the slight bulling bit). A number of posters have no interest in policy but have an enormous interest in bringing Leo and Simon down in some way.

I don't count newspaper articles quoting economists as evidence of anything because economists are as subject to bias as anyone else.

As I said I do think they are fraying around the edges and maybe they're too long there but it's the opinion of the electorate that counts not mine.

markodaly · 21-09-2021 04:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918276#Comment_117918276

The lack of any of you guys posting about it says it all

Leo's crew are fairly silent on it on this forum

Ah right, so because nobody mentioned it in the Leo thread, therefore we are sympathetic homophobes or have an affinity for the far-right

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant carry on there.

I hear there is a government jet about to take off, you best get on Twitter to see who is on it.

Note: I actually did post about that incident outside Leo's house by the way, in another thread, but unlike others, I don't like to spam multiple threads with the same regurgitated stuff. Sorry to disappoint on your 'theory'.

markodaly · 21-09-2021 04:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918728#Comment_117918728

It's par of the course.

Discuss some topic of the day, the automatic rebuttal is to dig up a Tweet from 4 years ago as some "haha gotcha'

It's playground bullying nonsense, that grown-ups are getting involved in. The idea to some that there is a "Leo crew" that is on patrol at all times strikes me as nuts but there you go. Some people need to have an enemy to fight against.

And to note, there is NEVER EVER any policy discussion. It's all, 'Oh Leo picked his nose' or 'Michael Martin sounds angry on the radio' or 'Oh look someone tweeted something, lets all laugh at it...lolz'.

Shebean · 21-09-2021 04:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920368#Comment_117920368

Note: You mentioned it in the SF thread trying to link the protesters to SF. That's agenda driven and using the incident for your own political purposes IMO.

markodaly · 21-09-2021 04:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918788#Comment_117918788

100%

I find myself more and more getting engaged in these futile food fights.

The old sayings are true.

Shebean · 21-09-2021 04:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920327#Comment_117920327

I find people criticise government based on policy, when Varadkar and Coveney aren't engaging in well publicised crony and lying behaviours. Can you find any discussions that don't stem from that? The only one I've seen recently is people using the animals who protested Varadkar to try score political points against the left/SF.

It was actually housing experts using factual statistics and looking at the same model used in London, but as I say, it seems you never read it. So much for people not wanting to discuss policy.

markodaly · 21-09-2021 04:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920394#Comment_117920394

No, you are mistaken.

I posted in this thread and explicitly stated that there were rumours that some may have been SF members/activists and if they were would NOT have been there under the guidance of the party. I also gave credit to MLMD for her statement on the incident.

I also brought the fact that at the moment, the anger and outrage that is fostered by SF is working for them at the moment but will come back to bite them later on.

Anyway, my core point was that I did post about it in another thread, so McMurphy is mistaken.

markodaly · 21-09-2021 04:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117919693#Comment_117919693

Have you been reading this thread?

Some have been trying to make it about FG, the DUP, Leo himself, the imagined 'Leo Crew' of boards.ie, among others

Or don't you want to acknowledge that?

Shebean · 21-09-2021 04:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920408#Comment_117920408

You aren't disputing my comment. You raised Varadkar being protested in the SF thread and tried to link SF to the protesters. Saying you read it in comments on the internet is just you citing your sources, you still used it to have a go at Sf.

Shebean · 21-09-2021 04:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920426#Comment_117920426

Nope. Some like yourself tried to blame the left/SF with zero evidence. Some of us responded saying that type of behaviour is more up the right wing alley which FG would actually be closer to. You can't open a can of worms and then have issue with were they wriggle.

21-09-2021 05:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920405#Comment_117920405

I will read it all and see what I think lm a bit wary of experts or anyone who startes a piece with the Government should, posters are giving far too much credit to governments for what happens good or bad Ireland is a fly on the world economic stage.

McMurphy · 21-09-2021 05:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920368#Comment_117920368

This is gas....I'm not long after posting about people who deliberately try and paint false scenes, or an incorrect narrative, and mark comes up with this.

**Ah right, so because nobody mentioned it in the Leo thread, therefore we are sympathetic homophobes or have an affinity for the far-right**

Where did I post any such suggestion? Should be easy to quote me do so, though obviously not as easy as arguing about something no-one said.

The difference in you and I Mark, is that I wouldn't lower myself to use completely false homophobic accusations to try and further an agenda, or to score points, because I am of the belief doing so devalues the actual homophobic issues the gay community face on a daily basis. Maybe if the far right loons had been wearing Kylie Minogue t-shirts, it might have been enough to get your concerns out of first gear.

FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

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