Lease renewal with rent increase without proper notice

helldesign · 16-09-2021 8:07pm #1

Hi,

I live in my current apartment (Tallaght, Dublin) since November 2016. Last year the property was sold and I signed a new 12 month fixed term lease on 23 July 2020 with 4% increase of the rent. The contract was signed through HelloSign (I got email from the agency requesting for my signature).

Yesterday I got text message (SMS) from the property agency, that "a lease renewal has been sent to me through "hellosign" for my signature and this is now over due".

I did let them know that I have not received any notice via post/email/phone and this was the first time I heard about it. They asked me to confirm my email and today I received a new 12 month lease with 4% increase of the rent and starting date 23 July 2021 (nearly two months ago) waiting for a signature in my HelloSign account.

It seems like they are asking me to sign a contract with a back date, 2 months later, with no notice and probably to pay the 4% extra rent for these 2 months. Is this legal, and how should I proceed?

How much is the legal notice that they have to give me in order to increase the rent. Is the 4% increase per year still in effect?

Thanks

17-09-2021 10:10am

Notice of rent review

Once the required period (12 or 24 months) has elapsed, your landlord can issue a notice of rent review.

The landlord must give you proper notice of the amount of the proposed new rent and the date from which it is to take effect. Landlords must use the RTB’s Notice of Rent Review Form when issuing a rent review. Landlords should fill out the sections of the form that are relevant to them and should not delete or change any of the form. Other forms, emails, text messages and spoken messages are not valid forms of notice.

You must get at least 90 days’ notice of a rent review. This means that the new rent cannot then apply until 90 days after the notice has been issued.

The landlord must also notify the RTB of the revised rent so that it can update the registration details of the tenancy.

For more information about the new notice of rent review form and how to fill it out, see the RTB’s website.

helldesign · 17-09-2021 8:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902757#Comment_117902757

That was very helpful, thank you! Very much appreciated!

So basically I can refuse to sign the backdated lease. Just one thing that bothers me is that I could get hit by a higher rent in retaliation.

Is my 4% increase legal and inline with the current inflation based system or the rent can go up even more, given that I'm in a Rent Pressure Zone?

Darc19 · 17-09-2021 9:10pm

The new inflation linked increase came in on July 16th.

So I'd write back letting them know that you cannot accept the increase in the present form as it does not comply with legislation and could they be issue a new intention of increase based on the current HICP index of 3% (it's at its highest in years) to take effect in 90 days.

Keep it simple and keep it cordial

helldesign · 17-09-2021 9:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117905854#Comment_117905854

Thank you for your advice!

Is there a website that shows this index so I could keep an eye on it?

helldesign · 17-09-2021 9:27pm

Actually nevermind, I've found it (but unfortunately can't post the link).

Thanks again!

Enter name here · 18-09-2021 7:36pm

How rude and unfair, I think the landlord should let you live there for free. Imagine a landlord not subsidizing his tenant what has this country become. I would sue the agent and landlord for the incredible amount of stress and hardship you must be going through. Landlords and agents need to realise they only exist to provide cheap or free accommodation to the masses.

For the few who misunderstood this post ^^^^^^^^ that was SARCASM

18-09-2021 10:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909035#Comment_117909035

Without doubt, it helps to be both informed, and aware of the legal obligations associated with rent reviews. It is difficult to ascertain if you posses either.

Enter name here · 18-09-2021 11:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909560#Comment_117909560

Of course, you have to love a country that dictates to you how much an investment is allowed to make and how it is the responsibility of your investment to support tenants. The legal obligations you refer are stifling to any further investment in the housing industry. Same shite every day a new thread on here on how to screw landlords over, woe is me. My landlord is mean and trying to make me pay more rent blah blah blah.

mondeoman72 · 18-09-2021 11:12pm

I wonder if this crap is why a house I look after, is now under notice of sale. Tenant has got notice as its not worth the hassle. Pity the government do not recognise that they are responsible for the crisis. They are the ones causing housing stocks to diminish as people are getting you.

mrslancaster · 18-09-2021 11:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909692#Comment_117909692

It's impossible for a lay person to keep up with all the changes to the rules and regulations, the RTA legislation has so many amendments it would wreck your head trying to read and understand it.

If tenants don't know their rights, its easy for dodgy landlords to con them and OTOH bad tenants can make a landlords life a misery and cost them a fortune. Its not surprising that both landlords and tenants are fed up with the current situation and that so many landlords are selling up.

mondeoman72 · 18-09-2021 11:42pm

I deal with someone who likes to say "I am entitled to", "all these houses have one" "its ok, the council with give me one"

He is now under notice and the place is for sale. When told to open the windows to stop the damp, his reply was "this country is so cold"

If Ireland is to cold for him, perhaps he should choose another warmer country for claiming his benefits.

helldesign · 19-09-2021 3:58am

Well, I am being casually asked to sign a back dated lease from two months ago with higher rent without any notice. And they also claim that I'm over due with the rent.

How is this fair?

whomitconcerns · 19-09-2021 6:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909035#Comment_117909035

In that same sarcastic vein, If only you could also backdate investments by two months generally. You could see if they performed well, then go backdate your purchase price.. Nope that doesn't work either..

Darc19 · 19-09-2021 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909988#Comment_117909988

Tell them that you simply cannot do something that is not permissible by law.

Maybe suggest that it would be best for both parties to write to the PRTB to get the correct advice on it (you will be seen as correct and they will know that)

If it an agency you are dealing with, I'm surprised they do not have the very basic understanding of the regulations. If its the landlord directly, he/she should read up on it.

Enter name here · 19-09-2021 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911072#Comment_117911072

The OP signed a 12 month lease on 23/7/20 through hellosign as stated. At the end of the 12 month lease a new lease was sent through to hellosign again as per the original lease. The OP knew they signed a 12 month lease as they have already stated that. The tenant now wants to act surprised 2 months later after not seeking any clarification to the existing lease on or about the 23/7/21. The agent sent through the new lease as required the exact same way the tenant signed initial lease. If the agent provides proof that the lease was sent as previously done the PRTB will also find that way and the tenant will have 2 options, to pay the back rent owed or give notice and vacate. Would be the same result if a tenant supplied an email address and new lease was sent through email. Only chance the op has to avoid back rent is if the rent increase is higher than permissible in an RPZ area.

Jmc25 · 19-09-2021 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909659#Comment_117909659

You can argue the private rented sector is over-regulated, as a great number of people on this forum routinely do. But would anyone seriously propose allowing a landlord or letting agent backdate a rent increase with no notice?

You can be very strongly pro-landlord and property rights and still believe that the case outlined above is clearly against the rules, and should continue to be against the rules.

Enter name here · 19-09-2021 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911284#Comment_117911284

There was notice, they signed a fixed term 12 month lease on the 23/7/20. So they tenant was aware a new lease would be forthcoming on 23/7/21. The tenant had 12 months notice of a new lease falling due. How much more notice would you like the tenant to have?

Sarn · 19-09-2021 3:40pm

Whatever about the fairness to the LL of the system, they needed to submit a rent review 90 days in advance of it coming into effect. My understanding is that this cannot be done during a fixed term lease. The onus is on the LL to ensure that they submit a proper rent review and ensure that the tenant receives it. As they only sent the rent review on 16/09/21, the rent increase should not come into effect for 90 days.

19-09-2021 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911312#Comment_117911312

The tenant should also know (let’s hope you do) that it continues to be the same tenancy agreement, the tenant has Part 4 tenancy rights, and, there is absolutely no requirement for the tenant to sign a further fixed term agreement. So even if the op received the new fixed term lease in July, he/she certainly did not have to sign it, and as the rent increase was sent only in email form, it is not valid.

Dempo1 · 19-09-2021 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909035#Comment_117909035

And not very amusing, the OP Raised legitimate concerns and from my reading has not only being paying their rent but has also been a long standing tenant, is it perhaps your belief this behaviour by a letting agent is acceptable.

It's disgraceful carry on and isn't it any wonder we hear daily horror stories about tenancies.

To its credit (and I don't give it much generally) the government has brought in rules which are really quite simple for landlords to follow.

I strongly suspect the landlord in this case , a corporate entity , not that this excuses such shoddy behaviour.

Enter name here · 19-09-2021 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911588#Comment_117911588

Dav010 you seems very confused or cant actually read the full post of the OP. The tenant is at the end of the Part 4 tenancy cycle as it was before December 2016, that they initially moved in as stated in 1st post. And the OP has not mentioned at any time they informed the agent of their intent to stay past fixed term lease.

So ill just leave this here for you and the OP...........

Claiming a Part 4 tenancy at the end of a fixed-term lease

If you have a fixed-term contract or lease and you want to remain in the property under the rights acquired under Part 4, you must notify your landlord of your intention to stay in the property. You must do this between 3 months and 1 month before your fixed–term tenancy or lease agreement expires. You can use this sample letter of notification to remain in the property under Part 4.

If you do not notify your landlord, you cannot be refused coverage under Part 4, but you may have to compensate the landlord for any financial loss that they incur because you did not notify them of your intention to remain in the tenancy.

_________________________________________________________________________________

So in other words contrary to what the above posters have said is rubbish and the agent/landlord are well within their rights to ask for compensation past due. As the PRTB will also tell you this I have probably saved you the time of finding out the hard way. Pay your back rent and stay if you wish but it will be under the new monthly rent as of 23/7/21, unless of course it exceeds the maximum amount under RPZ regulations.

Jmc25 · 19-09-2021 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911755#Comment_117911755

I'd be interested to see the RTB's view on that particular position!

Darc19 · 19-09-2021 5:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911246#Comment_117911246

I assumed that the tenant was still paying rent at the same rate and the contention was just over the 4% increase.

If the tenant has paid no rent since 23rd July, then they are overholding on their fixed term agreement and run the risk of eviction.

If I were the tenant I'd be making absolutely sure that rent due 23rd July & 23rd August is paid up and that the rent for 23rd sept is paid too, so that the only argument is the 4%.

helldesign · 19-09-2021 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911246#Comment_117911246

Nope, I didn't receive a new lease at the end of the period. I only got a text message 3 days ago that a lease has been sent through HelloSign for my signature and this is now overdue.

My HelloSign account was empty (I took screenshots), no previous emails/letters/messages. I did let them know, and only then they sent the new lease. It's the same account/email which were used to sign the first lease.

They may have sent it to a wrong email at first, or forgot about it (it is an agency), but it doesn't change the fact that I haven't been notified.

helldesign · 19-09-2021 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912003#Comment_117912003

I live in this property for nearly 5 years and I have never been skipping or being late with the rent, ever. I didn't stop paying it now either.

Sarn · 19-09-2021 5:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911755#Comment_117911755

Interesting point, however, the first Part IV tenancy would have ended in November 2020. The subsequent tenancy under Part IV would have started six months after that, about May, so there is still time to request Part IV. Either way, given that the LL appears to have intended to continue the tenancy there would have been no financial loss. It is more a case when a LL has other plans after the first fixed term lease ends e.g. they may have already incurred a cost advertising for a new tenant only to find their existing one wants to stay on.

As a matter of interest OP, when the original lease with the 4% increase was signed in July 2020, had there been a rent review on the previous November or less than 12 months? If so, the increase in July 2020 would have been illegal.

helldesign · 19-09-2021 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912051#Comment_117912051

Honestly I didn't even know that there needs to be a rent review. I've been through almost 1 tough year of insecurity and viewings, since the news for the property sale, some agents came in to take pictures and measure the rooms. But I haven't received a document from PRTB or the landlords/agents stating the higher rent, other than the lease itself. I had a verbal warning from the previous agency that the new owner is looking to up the rent by 4% and I agreed in a text message (in 2020). That's it.

Sarn · 19-09-2021 5:56pm

Just to add, the LL cannot circumvent the requirements simply by issuing a new lease. Ignore what enter name here has said as everything is pretty much wrong. Even if the LL submitted the notice correctly, the new rent at the earliest would not take effect until 90 days after 23 July 2021 (that is, October) and so no back rent would be due.

Enter name here · 19-09-2021 6:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912088#Comment_117912088

Seriously are you people ignorant of the law or just cant comprehend.

Facts not in dispute.

12 month fixed term lease signed 23/7/20.

Tenant entitled to part 4 tenancy cycle 1 (lease signed prior to dec 2016)

tenant entitled to part 4 tenancy cycle 2 (commencing approx may 21)

Tenant did not inform agent/landlord of their intention to stay after fixed term lease ended.

Tenant in RPZ zone.

Landlord/agent has incurred financial loss from the 23/7/21 from the increase in rent forthcoming which has not been paid as of 19/09/21.

Under current law Landlord/agent is entitled to seek compensation for financial loss incurred by tenant not informing them to stay past end of fixed term lease.

The compensation has nothing to do with part 4 tenancy or rent reviews.

New lease to continue as it with 4% rent increase from 23/7/21.

Legal and or professional costs can be awarded to landlord in an RTB case although this normally happens only under exceptional circumstances.

That's how it will play out in RTB and anyone telling you different is ignorant of the current laws in place to protect tenant and landlord.

Sarn · 19-09-2021 7:06pm

The second Part IV tenancy began November 2020. Signing a lease before it ended will not have changed that fact. The rent could only have been increased 90 days after the fixed tenancy ended in July 2021, provided a valid rent review was submitted. That is what the RTB will say.

Enter name here · 19-09-2021 7:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912355#Comment_117912355

Providing the tenant gave notice they were intending on staying which they did not. I own multiple properties and have dealt with similar issues many times before. Hence why now I only do corporate short stay leases. How many properties and experience do you have Sarn? Just curious as to where you draw on your expertise in this matter. I would be interested to see exactly where the part 4 overrides the fixed term lease as they currently run side by side. And as no notice was given that the tenant was staying past the fixed term date no rent review would have been required as the landlord/agent would have been correct in assuming the tenant was vacating at end of fixed term.

Sarn · 19-09-2021 7:15pm

The tenant is still within the first year of their Part IV tenancy. A new lease does not reset the clock.

Enter name here · 19-09-2021 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912392#Comment_117912392

That would be great if they were trying to evict the tenant which they are not. And now I notice a few threads up the OP even said they verbally discussed the increase with them previously. At the end of they day the part 4 is not in question and no eviction is sought. The matter of the fixed term lease is though, and as required by law and here it is one more time for you to read.

If you have a fixed-term contract or lease and you want to remain in the property under the rights acquired under Part 4, you must notify your landlord of your intention to stay in the property. You must do this between 3 months and 1 month before your fixed–term tenancy or lease agreement expires.

That is the underlying issue and as the tenant did not do this the are entitled to past rent due end of story. Nothing to do with rent reviews/ part 4 etc etc.

The terms of the fixed term lease are clear and concise.

Sarn · 19-09-2021 7:26pm

To add, for a further Part IV tenancy a tenant is not required to notify the LL. The obligation is on the LL to serve a notice of termination within the first six months of the further Part IV tenancy.

helldesign · 19-09-2021 7:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912426#Comment_117912426

"they verbally discussed the increase with them previously"

That was 2020, before signing the previous lease. This year we haven't discussed anything, verbally or written.

Enter name here · 19-09-2021 7:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912429#Comment_117912429

One last time before i give up and go and bang my head against the wall. NO ONE IS TRYING TO EVICT THE TENANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And yes now the the part 4 has started its 2nd cycle in the future in the ABSENCE of a fix term lease the tenant would require 90 days notice.

Sarn · 19-09-2021 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912464#Comment_117912464

There is no requirement on the tenant to notify the LL of a further Part IV therefore there is no financial loss. Even if you were correct, as I have highlighted, the further Part IV begins when the first Part IV tenancy ended in November 2020. There would still be time to request a further Part IV (although not required). A lease cannot be used to circumvent the tenant’s rights.

Enter name here · 19-09-2021 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912458#Comment_117912458

I'm not trying to be rude or mean. But you should have been aware of what a fixed term lease meant prior to signing it. Yes you have rights but so do the landlords/agents. You did not inform them of your intention to stay past the expiry of the fixed term lease as required by law, you are protected from eviction under your part 4 so don't worry about being evicted. It is also bad form of the agent in question to have not followed this up sooner with you. Have a talk to them, if you intend of staying in the place inform them of that now. Ask for a half way point if you can afford the new increase and agree to pay the increase from a set date in the near future and to forget about the past rent due they are seeking to keep the peace between both parties. I have no idea how much rent you pay but we are only talking a few hundred euros at most I presume wouldn't it be better to have a working relationship with the agent going forward. And yes I agree with you they were bad at not informing you earlier but equally with you not informing them that your intention is to stay. In addition going forward from the 16th July 2021 the 4% rule no longer applies and rents in an RPZ zone can now only be increased in accordance with inflation rates. That means if inflation is 1.7% that's all it can be increased in accordance with current market rates.

Personally I would not sign a further lease and inform the agent of your intention to stay under Part 4. That will ensure any future rent increases will require at least 90 days notice.

19-09-2021 8:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912481#Comment_117912481

All rent increases require 90 days notice, and must be written. It not clear to me, or anyone else what bearing fixed term/part 4 cycle regulations have on that requirement, nor why you brought that up.

Enter name here · 19-09-2021 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912630#Comment_117912630

Ok last post before i head off for the evening. A fixed term lease means the tenant moves out at the end of the fixed term lease unless they inform the landlord/agent of their intention to stay past the fixed term lease. If they fail to inform the landlord/agent of that intention there is no need to issue a rent increase as that would be covered in any new lease with new tenants. A requirement under fixed term leases is that the tenant informs the landlord/ agent between 1 to 3 months before ending of said fixed term lease. A fixed term lease does not circumvent a part4 agreement in any way shape or form.

So if the agent/landlord have not been informed as required by law why would they need to issue a rent increase?

Under fixed term leases landlords are entitled to any losses they incur after expiry of fixed term within reasonable grounds.

Yes going forward the tenant now has rights under part 4 but so does the landlord.

19-09-2021 9:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912674#Comment_117912674

Your interpretation of this is utterly wrong. A fixed term lease does not alter tenants rights under the RTA, nor LLs obligations in relation to rent reviews.

Fixed term leases do offer some benefits to both tenants and LLs, for instance the LL cannot terminate the tenancy for the reasons laid out in the RTA during the fixed term, but on the other hand, the tenant is responsible for the rent until the end of the term unless they assign their interest in it. Why fixed term leases are used anymore is beyond me.

A fixed term lease most certainly does not mean the tenant moves out at the end of the term, after 6 months the tenant gets part 4 rights and can stay as long as they want unless the tenancy is ended in a legal manner by the LL as set out in the RTA.

Irrespective of whether a fixed term agreement exists are not, the rules on rent reviews are clear, reviews must be in writing and give 90 days notice, neither of which occurred in the op’s case. A landlord cannot claim a loss on foot of an invalid rent review, if the review was not valid, there is no loss.

I’m really struggling to see what the part 4 cycle has to do with your interpretation, if you think it was a 4 yr cycle, it ended in November 2020, as this in September and the op still hasn’t received a written notice of rent review not termination, that ship has sailed, or do you think it is a 6 yr cycle which would not end until November 2022? Which ever way you are interpreting it, you are wrong to state that it lessens the requirement for the landlord to provide the op with a valid, legal rent review.

https://www.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/fixed-term-tenancy?gclid=Cj0KCQjwv5uKBhD6ARIsAGv9a-yUgoHLAie_Y-9TWPUOYRjRGu4eFDM4IyylrOcd2idQNTJ5TXHezyEaAlO6EALw_wcB

Enter name here · 19-09-2021 10:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912795#Comment_117912795

If you have a fixed-term contract or lease and wish to remain in the property under the rights acquired under Part 4, you must notify your landlord of your intention to stay in the property, not more than 3 months and not less than 1 month, before the expiry of your fixed-term tenancy or lease agreement. If you fail to do so, you do not lose your right to a ‘Part 4 Tenancy’ but you may have to compensate the landlord for any financial loss incurred because you did not notify them of your intention to remain in the tenancy.

The RTA is quite clear on that as above. We have different interpretations fair enough, I have been there before. The RTB doesn't write law only interprets the law as written and pass decisions based on law. I have now posted that summary 3 times, don't believe me go ask your own legal representative then.

19-09-2021 10:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117913171#Comment_117913171

Again, the LL cannot claim a loss of rent on foot of an invalid rent review. What financial loss are you referring to?

Enter name here · 19-09-2021 11:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117913241#Comment_117913241

If the LL/agent were not aware of the tenant staying past the end of the fixed term contract why would they have to issue a rent review to a tenant not staying on past due date? Hence why the onus falls on the tenant to inform them of their decision to claim part 4 rights at the end of the fixed term between 1 to 3 months before conclusion of said fixed term contract. Either way we are not going to convince either of us to change our minds, I have my interpretation and you have yours. Lets just agree to disagree.

helldesign · 19-09-2021 11:11pm

Let's also not forget that the increase on the new lease is 4% which I think is more than the current inflation.

mrslancaster · 19-09-2021 11:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117913171#Comment_117913171

If the tenancy started in Nov2016 and the initial Part4 ended in Oct2020, a further Part4 would have kicked in immediately. Afaik, the tenancy agreement would continue as the house was obviously sold with the tenant in situ.

The new owner may have been entitled to issue a rent review in July2020 if it was 12 months since the last one or whatever the rules were during covid but is it legal to issue a new fixed term lease in the middle of a Further Part4 agreement?

mrslancaster · 19-09-2021 11:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912429#Comment_117912429

I thought it had to be served before the Further Part4 starts?

Otherwise, if the Further Part4 starts and the landlord has not prevented it, then surely the tenancy is for a further six year term - unless there is a termination on some other ground.

antodeco · 20-09-2021 12:06am

Just an added query to this if I may:

Fixed term tenancy finishes. No notification from tenant or LL about staying on. Tenant stays on. 9 months later, the LL now requests a new 12 month lease.

Is the tenant obliged to sign the new lease? Does the tenant still have part 4 rights, even if no notice of such was given, as it's now 9 months since the fixed term ended without any communication from either party.

circular flexing · 20-09-2021 2:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117913298#Comment_117913298

I don't know where you are getting your information from but RTB site is pretty clear about fixed term leases

https://www.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/fixed-term-tenancy

"A ‘Part 4’ tenancy runs alongside a fixed term tenancy, which means the tenant shall, after a period of 6 months and as in the normal course, become entitled to the provisions of a ‘Part 4’ tenancy (i.e. they can stay in the property for 4 or 6 years*)."

Nothing mentioned there about need to claim Part 4 rights, they are granted by default.

circular flexing · 20-09-2021 2:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117913464#Comment_117913464

Tenant is not obliged to sign the lease, as per RTB, Part 4 rights are granted after 6 months by default.

Lease renewal with rent increase without proper notice

Comments

Notice of rent review

Claiming a Part 4 tenancy at the end of a fixed-term lease