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Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    This is just the Council Executive trying to up the ante and create hysteria, ahead of the yet undetermined public consultation. No surprise that they have pulled the stunt in the middle of bike week for maximum effect.

    They should proceed with the uncontentious elements without delay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    I think we all know who upped the ante by challenging legality of active travel measures of council in the High Court. If ever there was a case of winning the battle but losing the war that was it. A much cleverer strategy would have been to challenge the approach based on evidence gathered during trial, which would be basically irrefutable. This is assuming of course that the end of civilisation did really occur due to a bike lane.

    As regards a stay on active school travel, I think the real reason might be because Brexit. Or because Greens infighting. Or because… It’ll be some craic to read back over this thread again when the new legislation comes in.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its almost as if the stunt pullers hate to see others pulling stunts......imagine that. Sounds like someone doesn't appreciate the bad press and pressure from parents who want to see their children to be able to travel safely to school.

    I have been posting in a thread on the cycling forum for the last while about the impact cycle buses are going to have on the overall quality of bike infrastructure and to a lesser extent on the census next year.

    Its a hell of a lot harder to say no to putting in protected infrastructure when you are talking about the alternative being 5, 6, 7, 8 year olds mixing with HGV's, buses and Chelsea tractors.

    The more prolific cycle buses become, the fewer councilors will stop bike infrastructure and the more that will actively push for this infrastructure instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Strand Road and Deansgrange both went through (overwhelming positive) public consultations. Didn't stop the minority "upping the ante" running to the court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Nobody gotcha'd me, cos I don't give a monkeys if they go ahead one way or the other, but its pretty juvenile carry-on from unelected Council officials who will add to the cost of the overall project by their unprofessional actions and thats something I do object to.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Who's looking for "gotcha"? It's just an inconsistent position. Pro public consultation, unless the answer is wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Its not a stunt if it falls within the powers of Councillors, its just the law. Its not a stunt if its ordinary people seeking legal recourse, its just the law.

    Whats happening here is public officials in DLR (some of whom love a bit of public profile and empire building) acting outside of their obligations as unelected public servants, by adding unnecessarily to the overall cost of the combined project by their actions (temper tantrum), which without good reason is a violation of the Public Spending Code and probably of the terms of contract with the provider(s) doing the work. In other words they are playing with fire.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Unless, of course, their actions suit your anti-cycling agenda, in which case, "shure they're grand lads altogether"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,394 ✭✭✭markpb


    You publicly accused Robert Burns of improper behaviour weeks ago and you're alluding to it again. I presume you've actually done something about it if it offends you so much?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Yes I've spoken with several Councillors of my acquaintance about the conduct of the executive as a whole, because it is a collective under the Chief Exec. I was far from the only one raising such concerns and it has been acted upon. No doubt it will be again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    Was it in a private capacity as a concerned citizen or in your professional capacity as a planning consultant for developers that you spoke with them about it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Well, given that developers have nothing at all to do with this (or even if they did, its not any that I'm aware of or any I'm providing services for) it was in a private capacity as a taxpayer and an opponent of waste and dereliction in the exchequer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Those that complain most shout loudest in politicians ears, and get listened to. Weak minded and easily influenced politicians seem to forget that they disproportionately hear more from people complaining than those in support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    And if they were "weak minded" in a fashion that agreed with you, what would you call them then?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    They would still be weak minded. What is your point ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    My point is that they aren't actually weak minded just because you and some others disagree with them, or rather that they disagree with you.

    They are representing significant cross sections of their communities, with legitimate concerns. I said before on here, the best thing you can do to prevent any progress, is to dismiss them as cranks, crooks, cronies, luddites, fat cats, blueshirts, or indeed weak minded. It will only entrench opposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I’m pro cycling except when a vocal minority get on my case. Fair few of those around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    OK Sorry to keep banging on about it, but I thought that you mentioned before that you don’t live in the DLR council area? If so, why would you go to the bother of speaking to several Councillors there about the conduct of the executive?

    Maybe I’m misremembering and you do actually live in DLR?

    (I’ll admit that I am a DLR resident directly impacted by these decisions.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No I don't live in DLR now, I come from there, was brought up and educated there and my business is located there now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    tbh this really brings me back to my earlier point about local residents not having a veto on these projects. And shows that they are right if the intention is to move this to permanent employee's.

    I'm directly effected by Deansgrange, as that's my commuting route. It's a greater Dublin issue, not a local one, and should be judged on that, not chipper access.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Again, its just pure gamesmanship by the Council Chief Exec and the Director of Infrastructure, shithousery of the highest order.

    It won't be tolerated by the elected Council, especially the ones they are trying to stitch up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Given that he is the Director of Infrastructure and hence, the joint shithouser of the piece, he would say that, wouldn't he?

    They are directly contradicting their own statement, issued on the withdrawal of the S138, that only the Deansgrange section would be omitted, in order to address a solution for it. From my experience of the type of projects he's talking about, I politely suggest he's talking b0ll0cks.

    Let me illustrate. The following is an extract from the post on the Council's website of 16th Sept.

    "At the Council meeting on Monday 13 September, the notification under section 138 of the Local Government Act 2001, which related to works for the entire AST project, consisting of all three routes, was withdrawn by the Council Executive."

    This is a lie. The S138 notification related only to the Deansgrange element. Why? Because other aspects of the work of the AST project were already underway on the ground, eg Lower Kilmacud Road which is currently excavated! And in any case, a contract for works being constructed on the ground under the provisions of the Road Traffic Act, are neither dependent on nor halted by a S.138 notification by the Council Chief Exec. The S.138 in this instance was being used as an instrument to force a vote, it wasn't a necessity as the funding was grants from the NTA, not Councils own resources. However, that backfired when the Councillors responded with a S.140 that they had the numbers to win.

    This is the text of the email sent to Councillors by the Chief Exec when he decided to withdraw the S.138:

    "Following the large number of submissions received recently on the Deansgrange element of the Active Schools Travel project, and following discussions with Councillors, it is now proposed to commence a further process of engagement with all stakeholders . All options will be considered before proceeding with the Deansgrange related elements, which form part of two of the proposed Active School Travel routes. All works proposed in relation to the Deansgrange element of the works will be deferred until the engagement process is completed, with a report to issue to the elected members at that time. The report will be completed by January 2022. In the meantime, it is proposed to withdraw the section 138 notice in its current form.”

    I'm not sure how many more times he needed to say "deansgrange element", to make people understand that he was talking about the Deansgrange element!

    Given the proof from both extracts above that a) the AST project as a whole is not affected by the S.138 one way or the other and that b) they were quite satisfied on Monday night that the Deansgrange element could be further examined in isolation, with revision and further consultation to attempt a solution, I can only reiterate that what Robert Burns is saying now (on his private twitter,no less) and what the Councillors were told yesterday, is total, absolute and complete bullshyt.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm enjoying how annoyed you are about this 😁

    The gang thought they were being smart, got outplayed, and are now being made look like the twats that they are. No doubt they are getting flak from many parents over their actions. Long may it continue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No, you misinterpret my feelings, I'm not close enough to it to be angry about it, I'm just feeling intolerant of negligent public servants. This is your taxes just as much as mine that they are playing fast and loose with.

    The Councillors are angry about it though, they'll be overturning this stunt next week, as it is as transparent as it is shabby.



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  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So they are going to force the council to make Deansgrange one way and implement the full network, cool



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