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Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,046 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    And as soon as people stop electing them, you'll have it all your own way I'm sure.

    I don't think you get it at all. Party politics is local democracy. People saying no are just as entitled to representation as people saying yes. And that's exactly my point about these consultations, cycling advocacy groups putting out social media calls for people from anywhere to make submissions on these local issues, it simply has no credibility. The Councillors and the Council officials have sat down with people locally and what they are seeing and hearing in person does not reflect the outcome of online consultations, because the latter are bogus. That's what brought about what happened tonight and its why these things need a statutory foundation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭daragh_


    Stunning victory for Big Pizza. Screw yer kids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,853 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    The "Local support" should be only one consideration in these schemes, given the much wider impact on active travel and the greater good. Deansgrange is the commuting route to the City Centre from North Wicklow, the area's around it such as Cabinteely/ Foxrock/ Cornelscourt/ Loughlinstown. It's completely ridiculous they have a veto on these schemes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,046 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Ah yes, the greater good, refrain of the Bolos and the Comintern.

    All very well until the Council or the LDA or the TII wants to build that 20 storey block or that halting site next to your home in the name of the greater good and your legitimate input gets pushed aside.

    Be careful what you wish for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭daragh_


    I'm local and there's plenty of support for it, particularly among people like me who commute by bike and have kids who would use the route. Not dismissing many reasonable people who have legitimate concerns about access and traffic displacement. But the key word people are missing here is 'Trial'.

    If the Trial doesn't work the world then DLRCOCO can look at other ideas. This is being framed as a piece of permanent infra by the naysayers.

    As Cllr Shay Brennan (Fianna Fáil) said: “Further consultation is a cop-out. We can have much more info in 6 months if we began the live trial now! We must get more serious about this, we need a solid, safe and direct cycling network. The alternative is an unusable network of local compromises and further car-clogged roads.”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,853 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Yours is a false comparison, but it happens all time. Hence we have CPO's for road schemes, rail, (hopefully) bus connects.

    I didn't say "no say", I said they should have "no veto", which is what some residents seem to have achieved here and on Strand Road.

    I submitted on my county development plan, I've submitted on the N11 "upgrades", I submitted on various infrastructure proposals that have gone to Public Consultation that would impact on me. I don't expect my view to rank any higher than anyone elses, but the opposite also holds true. Residents view should be a consideration, but only one consideration (even assuming unanimity amongst locals, which there clearly isn't in Deansgrange or Strand Road).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,046 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I go back to my regular refrain so, Eamon Ryan needs to act on Carville and Flynn v DCC and put these schemes on a statutory footing to a higher standard of planning, design and consultation.

    If not, we are destined to have all these proposals stuck in limbo indefinitely. DCCs appeal of the above judgement has no basis in law for success, so let's face reality and get on with it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,495 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Speaking of Carville & Flynn...

    Members of the STC – Serpentine Ave, Tritonville and Claremont Roads – Residents Group have examined the need for a cycling path and they have come up with what they hope will be a solution – putting the cycleway on top of planned coastal defences.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,632 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,046 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Through traffic isn't prevented on Convent Road, it uses Lees Lane to circulate back to Patrick Street.

    I thought the guy who proposed the plan might know this.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,046 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Thats real ambition and real forward thinking.

    Do it.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,419 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    That plan has been around for ages. It was never built. It was last proposed a few years ago with the Merrion Gates bypass and was roundly rejected by local opposition groups. Without a solution for Merrion Gates, this "new" plan is just a sub-standard version of the old plan that makes cyclists share space with cars near Merrion Gates.


    And that's before you even think about the hoops that will have to be jumped through to build a boardwalk on the protected Dublin Bay SAC site between Sean Moore Park and the promenade.


    Dangerous and unrealistic rubbish printed on a shiny brochure.

    Is this your idea of ambition?

    E-7TtCAXMBYOwV0.jpeg


    And is this your idea of forward thinking? 20 years of planning with no results?

    Screenshot_20210910_153317.jpg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,046 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    We've all always known that the ultimate solution here would be sustainable provision mixed with inevitable flood protection measures, exactly it is has been in Clontarf.

    Time to assign the resources to the big picture solutions.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,532 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    what constitutes 'shared space'? the diagram above shows a car alongside a bike in a lane 3000mm wide. if the car is 2000mm wide, and the cyclist's shoulders are 500mm wide, that leaves a 50mm gap between them if they're both scraping up against the outside of the available lane.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,419 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Most people would just call it a road with no cycle lane. If you're trying to sell horseshit so you can keep driving around the place unobstructed, it's a "shared bike/car lane".

    They got to a difficult bit and compromised on the only thing they were willing to compromise on in the entire "plan": safety of people on bikes.

    We did assign resources to big picture solutions. There was a plan to build a safe segregated cycle route and keep two way car traffic. In 2016. I thought it was overengineered but, unlike this shite from the current opposers, it would have at least kept everyone safe. It was strongly opposed by Sandymount residents and shelved indefinitely. If they hadn't opposed it and if it had received planning permission, we would be building it now.

    This is all old news. Stop pretending like this a brilliant new plan.

    Out of curiosity, how long do you think it will take to fully design this "solution" and get planning permission? EIA and everything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 101 ✭✭Trudee


    Green Party support fell from 22% to 8% in DBS election



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,532 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    True but don't forget it was their biggest name running last time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    With Bacik in now , there will be a hell of a fight for the last two seats between Geoghegan , Ryan and O'Callaghan.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    I think that DCC should delay the development at the IGB site until the Strand Road bike lane implementation is resolved fully. It doesn’t make sense to me to build a load of apartments at one of the road before the issue is resolved, given that it just adds to the expectations of new resident drivers and builders that Strand Road is essential for their access.

    I think if the decision was taken to delay IGB it would incentivise a lot of the vested interests and councillors to find a good solution to the bike lane. In my view it’s the vested interests there associated with that site that are behind the funding for the opposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,046 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    DCC cannot. Approval of the IGB site application will be directly by An Bord Pleanála.

    The Council could, however, petition the Board themselves, to condition the developers to deliver a significant part of an improved off-road cycleway to link up with a more ambitious plan for the promenade, including the design for flood protection. They'd better get their skates on though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 101 ✭✭Trudee


    Maxol station development got go ahead today from ABP which will also add more construction activity at end of Seán Moore Road/Church Ave



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,046 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    You beat me to it.

    It's a great development, should add to the neighbourhood and improve that site significantly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,988 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,818 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Sounds like a step in the right direction potentially.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Told ye this is what would happen :)

    I'd like to thank the Deangrange & Strand Rd folks who have ensured that future bike infrastructure will go through a far simpler rollout and at a faster rate, thank you, thank you all



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,419 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    This shouldn't take longer than a few months. The bill in question is already at pre-legislative scrutiny stage. It's the e-scooters bill.

    This should speed things up going forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,150 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Absolutely hilarious if it becomes legislation, I would pay money to see Mannix's face and that Ward gobshite.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,853 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    It'd be some karma for both areas if a 6 month trial, where teething problems could potentially be a much more significant proportion of the trial time, became an 18 month one where the population adjusts to the new normal (to borrow that awful phrase).



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