Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

The conversation is around what is the controllable part of immigration. So EU & UK is uncontrollable. That said, I have no idea why USA, Australia & Canada were separated from rest of the world earlier, is there some policy between those countries and Ireland?

I feel your annoyance fella. Especially on Boards there are a couple of bogeymen presented as the cause of all the ills in Ireland. But Amadan has a point too, which they've made respectfully. I think sometimes if adults are not the ones to have these conversations then the worst type of people take up the mantle of turning them into simplistic talking points.

The REITs are mostly foreign.

The problem with the housing crisis is that too many think that fixing one it two issues will resolve it.

It is much more complicated. But let's deal with immigration. First off we are in the EU and there is freedom of movement. That leaves the pesky non EU nationals. So who are these. There the Brazilian's working in the meat factories, the Asian and African doctors in our health system, the African and Asian taxi drivers, similar with hotel and security staff in Dublin, along with the nurse from the Philippines that are working in nursing homes and the health services. By all means we can stop them entering the country but the latte you get on the way to work will be impacted by there removal from the system. Finally you have about 40 k non national students at 3'rd level that helps keep this system going.

But immigration is only one if many factors. I made a point.on the M20 thread that it was one of the most critical pieces of infrastructure in the country in that it could provide an economic counter balance to Dublin and redirect employment and investment away fro Dublin. The fast tracking of it would attract commercial development away from Dublin.

Housing regulations are a huge impediment to development in Ireland. While all new houses must be A/B energy rated so must all houses that are redeveloped/ bought back into the housing system. The Ber rating system rates a 2' thick old stone wall house at the same rating as a 60's 4'' block with an uninsulated cavity wall. This is be a huge impediment to redevelopment of older housing stock. Present D rating is more than adequate for this type of stock. Getting accomodation above shops and businesses back into the system will not be possible until these and fire regulations are ammended. Add in the cost of other compliance regulation and housing costs are soaring. A local lad has applied for one off planning at present it will cost 3-5k in professional fees just to get planning sorted. Certification after that cost another 10 k.

Labour is a huge issue. It's seems to be a right of passage for school levers to go to college/ university. We rack and stack them in arts courses. We have a massive fayre in the trades apprenticeship sectors. As well where 5+ years ago an apprenticeship took 4 year's now it is hitting 5 years as the college part is completely overwhelmed at present with the numbers doing them. If we try to up numbers going into them we need to restructure the whole system. As well how do you encourage school leavers from Dublin to do apprenticeships when access to third is easier for people from Dublin than anywhere else.im the country.

And we have not got to land or financing costs even yet

300K dwellings would easily house 360k immigrants. Though 300K dwellings, might still be not enough to solve current housing issues.

Saying if we get rid of the n words we will have plenty houses is reductive nonsense.

We could easily have a surplus of 100,000 homes in Dublin City Centre except successive Irish governments are ideologically opposed to not milking their tenants.

Rent generating policy is king and immigrants are irrelevant.

Hugely informative.

So if 100,000 net immigrants arrive here in the next 3 years that'd be irrelevant to the property market?

Maybe we should stop country folk migrating to the cities. That would have an immediate impact.

No I was not being facetious. A lot of lowpaying/ minimum wage work( sub15/ hour in Dublin) is filled by migrant labour from non nationals. Take these out of the system and the country grinds to a halt, They drive the buses, run the taxi's, work back of house in the hotel, food and beverage sector. A large section of our building labour is non national now. Truck drivers are another area where there is a large non national cohort. The food production sector is heavily dependent on it

So the latte was just making the point how dependent we are for foreign labour. The young unemployed from Dublin will not pick your spuds and veg, drive you taxi, bone out your beef and lamb carcasses, fillet you chickens or fish. Neither will they work on the trawler going to sea on a Friday night.

There is a need for immigration to fill gaps in the labour force and these people have a right to live somewhere just the same as a Irish or EU Citizen as they will be contributing to the economy and tax take.... Also they have a visa for a set period of time so are unlikely to be buying properties and more likely to be renting. If your argument is purely about numbers and not just a xenophobia post then you also be encouraging people not to have kids as this, or to prevent Irish immigrants from returning home as this also leads to an increase in demand.

Granted if companies are hiring non-EU citizens for positions that can be filled by EU Citizens who want these jobs then that is another story and I am sure that it happens by tailoring the job advert accordingly. But the majority of immigrants are filling roles where there is a shortage.

The housing crisis is caused by many factors but the main one being for 10+ years very little building has been undertaken. Since 2011 the population has grown by circa 400k (of which the non EU population has only gown by 1.7k*) and we have only built circa 130k of housing during that period.

*Source: https://data.cso.ie/