Horizon: Forbidden West (Horizon Zero Dawn Sequel) PS5

super_furry · 02-09-2021 4:29pm

Absolutely rotten of Sony to charge you for settings tweaks. It would be like Steam hiding 4K resolution behind a €10 fee.

They really are getting back to peak arrogant Sony.

Retr0gamer · 02-09-2021 5:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117838893#Comment_117838893

No but close enough, especially when you factor out the cost of certification for two builds because the publisher is the platform holder.

CastorTroy · 02-09-2021 9:30pm

Was reading through the FAQ and seems there's no way to upgrade from PS4 version to PS5 if you get the regular edition

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/horizon-forbidden-west-support/

Can I upgrade my Horizon Forbidden West PS4 version to the PS5 version?

To access both the PS4 and PS5 versions of Horizon Forbidden West, you need to purchase the Digital Deluxe, Collector’s, or Regalla Editions. Dual entitlement does not apply to the Standard and Special Editions.

Can I upgrade my Standard Edition to the Digital Deluxe edition of Horizon Forbidden West?

There are no plans for an update offer from Standard to Digital Deluxe Edition at this time.

So if you have a PS4 and want to get the game at release, best bet is to go with the Digital Deluxe edition if you want to get the PS5 version as well for later. Which is pretty crap if you want to buy physical.

Looking at teh store, the Digital Deluxe Edition is €20 more than the PS4 standard edition

https://store.playstation.com/en-ie/concept/10000886/

Has Sony given a free PS4 to PS5 upgrade since launch? I know they did it for Miles Morales and Sackboy. Third parties seem to do it more than them anyway.

Potential-Monke · 02-09-2021 9:32pm

I don't mind it. Most games I've seen offer free upgrades are simply graphical and loading, but with the PS5 you get additional features. Another side is some games that offer free upgrades also have MT's, so enticing people back to their game for free is worth the chance, ie: Borderlands 3 and AC Valhalla. But Sony aren't the only ones. BF2042 only gets a free upgrade if you buy the Gold Edition, Control only if you had/buy the Ultimate Edition, Fifa 21 has a free upgrade, but only until the 21st of this month... HZD was MT free iirc, and I'd say this could be similar. Why shouldn't they be paid for the extra work?

People are entitled....

johnny_ultimate · 02-09-2021 9:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839784#Comment_117839784

Other companies doing it doesn't make it any better. Other companies again are offering generous upgrades without bother. The bulk of development cost is going into the creation of the core game, not the individual platform ports. If someone's paying 60-70 quid or more for a new game, it's not a whole lot to ask for them to also have access to the PS5 download when they finally get a console. It's a grubby, confusing and money-hungry practice to hold it back, and only hurts the audience who's likely to rush out to buy the game at high price anyway. I can somewhat understand a small charge when it comes to older games getting new upgrades (although even then some developers release them for free without hassle). But for a game coming out over a year in the PS5 lifespan... it's greed and nothing more to have this over-complicated, limited upgrade 'path'. Just let someone buy the damn game at a standard price and play it on either console.

Microsoft, to their credit, has set the example here: buy a game, get it across platforms with cross-save. No fuss. Upgrading on PS5 is all fuss (although I believe slightly streamlined with Ghosts of Tsushima). I went to upgrade to FF7 Remake PS5 version a while back and it was a mess even finding the upgrade in the store. Then I had to install the old PS4 version just to upload my cloud save. Nonsense, especially when the competitor has a fully functional and no-fuss solution for quite some time now.

CastorTroy · 02-09-2021 9:48pm

But a problem here is you can't even upgrade the PS4 version if you were willing to give them the extra €10.

Penn · 02-09-2021 10:00pm

Definitely a sh*tty move from Sony. Given how Gamepass is completely showing them up, something like offering free upgrade for their own first party games (with their exclusives being one of their biggest selling points) is the simplest and easiest thing they can do.

Potential-Monke · 02-09-2021 10:13pm

Fair enough, I understand your points, but I still feel like MS is just throwing money at the situation to try and entice people over, Sony are making genuine steps forward towards better immersion. I'm willing to pay for that extra immersion, which you will only get on PS5. Lots of devs agree, and say going from the DualSense back to the DS4 you're left missing something. Yes, they need to sort the upgrade path overall, but Sony were never on the ball when it comes to the store, but it's a lot better than it was.

Maybe it's the Sony fanboy in me, as I did have a 360 which I used more than the 3, but I genuinely feel Microsoft only want to make money, Sony want to make money but make better, more immersive games overall in the process.

johnny_ultimate · 02-09-2021 11:05pm

The Dualsense stuff is fine and all but it's hardly worth locking off easy upgrade options. Microsoft has plenty of great games - their latest first-party release (Psychonauts 2) is better than anything Sony has put out on the PS5 to date as far as I'm concerned.

A PS4 version of Horizon 2 exists: someone who buys that at full price and gets a PS5 later on should be able to download that version free and without issue as far as I'm concerned (and vice versa, even if I'm sure the market for PS5->PS4 downgrades is much smaller). If Sony is confusing things with the extra tenner added onto cross-gen PS5 titles, that's their own damn fault.

CastorTroy · 02-09-2021 11:55pm

mispost

Potential-Monke · 03-09-2021 12:14am

We always knew DoubleFine would make an excellent game if they had the money, and MS threw it at them so the results, imo, were to be expected. Psychonauts 1 was excellent, and from what I had seen of trailer I knew 2 would be just as good. I can also get it on my PS5. But, i'm gonna hold out on it, because maybe, just maybe, there will be a proper PS5 version, because I can only imagine how good the first would have been if I had haptics back then. It may never happen, and I'll end up playing it when I eventually pick up a SX. But having experienced The Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Astrobot with haptics, I feel lost without it.

I think some people are overlooking just how good this is. Yeah, there will be people who can't use it to the full degree, or who turn it off for competative games, but it really, really adds to the experience for me, and as I'm usually a 1 and done kinda guy on games, I'd rather wait to see if the games I know will be good will get a proper PS5 update. And I genuinely think it's worth the extra if it has been implemented properly. And bring on PSVR2! I love getting lost in games, haptics add that extra layer, and it's just oh so lovely!

Retr0gamer · 03-09-2021 9:14am

It's just fancy controller haptics. Other than the triggers you can get the same haptics on the Switch. It ain't worth an extra tenner and praise of anti consumer practices.

It think you'd have to have some fanboy blinkers on not to see how bullshit locking out a next gen upgrade is behind a paywall but also locking it out for people that don't buy a fancy special edition, you're essentially paying extra to have the privilege to pay Sony more money.

recyclops · 03-09-2021 10:36am

anything with gyro is lost on me, always has been always will be, the dual sense is nice, my nieces like it and enjoyed messing with astrobot. Thats the height of it really, I have most of the stuff it does turned down and havent really used anything in most of the games ive played on ps5. That been said I am yet to play returnal, but its soon going to become something that gets used in first party games mainly and forgotten about on most of the games.

So far this gen MS have outplayed Sony at most corners, this appears to be another hill Sony will die on and its a horrible money grab at a time where most of their consumers cant even pick up the main device they want to play the games they are releasing on.

for what its worth in relation to horizon, I am looking forward to it looks to be more of the same which is all anyone really wants from it

Arcadeheroes · 03-09-2021 10:40am

Sony promised that they were going to offer a free upgrade to people who were going to buy the PS4 version of Horizon Forbidden West , and its not the first time they have lied cause the did the same thing with Spiderman Miles Morales even though they promised on their Playstation Blog all upgrades would be free . No matter what spin the company/development team pulls out of their A** the reason why they are doing this is they want the extra 20 euros from the people who were going to buy the 60 euro version of the game compared to the ps5 version that is selling for 80 euro upwards . I can never believe that Haptic feedback cost the extra 10-20 euro .

Its a very dangerous road for people to keep saying "sure I dont mind " at what point does it become enough ??

The Spin these companies pull and people blindly accept it is crazy to me

Like Sucker Punch saying the lip syncing in Ghost of tsushima could only be done on the ps5 version of the game and you needed to pay the extra money for it . :/

Retr0gamer · 03-09-2021 10:43am

In the case of ghosts at least some extra work had been put in and you get an expansion.

Horizon is the same game.

Penn · 03-09-2021 10:45am

I do think the controller adds a lot when used well. It's minor and not something I'd think should cause the game to cost more, but it can definitely add to the experience. Astrobot, Returnal and Ratchet & Clank to a lesser extent all used the haptics and triggers in interesting ways, and I'd be excited for what Horizon 2 and God Of War 2 do with it.

But that and a graphics boost aren't enough to justify Sony putting a price on a PS4 to PS5 upgrade for the standard edition. I have to agree with others, they're getting cocky again. As a company they may not have the financial warchest behind them that Microsoft has, but they also don't need to be doing things like this just for the extra few bucks they might get off either the upgrade or pushing people to the deluxe editions. Not for their own first-party games which are ultimately their biggest selling point for the console as a whole.

They should be working their way towards competing with Gamepass for value, not towards competing with Ubisoft for gouging.

quokula · 03-09-2021 12:25pm

If you have a PS5, buy the PS5 version. It's not that complicated. This is the way console games have worked since the dawn of time. You couldn't jam a SNES cartridge into an N64 and and expect to play it at higher resolution with new features. Instead you'd have to buy an N64 game which cost a lot more.

MS are doing some nice novel things with backwards compatibility and with gamepass, sure, and Sony could do more to compete with that, but honestly a consequence of it is that it was barely noticeable when I updated from a One X to a Series X as all you get is the exact same games with minor perf improvements. With my PS5, playing everything from Astrobot to R&C, it feels like you get genuine next gen experiences, which is what I expect from Horizon too.

If you want next gen quality for last gen prices, you're going to end up with MTX riddled shovelware as that's the only way developers will be able to cover their costs. I've got gamepass, I enjoy playing the older games and indie games on it that were cheap enough to develop to be on there.

But I also enjoy scratching a different itch by playing Sony's first party games with stunning production values that are far beyond anything that you can find on any other platform, and I realise that you pay a premium for that. Someone summed it up before that it's like comparing Netflix to going to the Cinema, one gives great value and lots of choices, but the other gives you that premium experience that's worth paying for.

johnny_ultimate · 03-09-2021 1:04pm

There’s no comparison to N64 and SNES, frankly - there were actual physical constraints then. These days, cross-platform is as simple as having two downloads for someone to choose between (or automated if you’re on some platforms).

I have a PS5 and like many PS exclusives, but I cannot for a second get behind the idea Sony first party games are some sort of magically immersive premium product uniquely worth an extra ten quid. Personally, I’m much more excited about Forza Horizon 5 than Horizon Forbidden West, if we’re talking ‘big first party open world releases called Horizon’. If anything, Sony’s once rightly proud history of first party greats has dimmed as they’ve doubled down on their now familiar ‘house style’. I think Microsoft has had a problem with their own first party releases for quite some time, mind, but they’re gradually catching up with a more diverse range of games than Sony has.

Horizon is coming out at a time when PS5s are still likely to be hard to come by. Many other people won’t be able to afford to upgrade just yet. The easiest thing in the world for Sony to do would be to say ‘you buy the game, you can play it on either platform’. They’ll still get their 70 quid from the customer. They’ve gone for convoluted bullshit instead, and it’s a **** business practice in an era when their immediate competitor is making things easier and easier. Not to mention the fact that this game needs to run on PS4 anyway means its next-gen bonafides are likely limited anyway.

Cina · 03-09-2021 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841590#Comment_117841590

That's all well and good if are lucky enough to have a PS5 but what about all the people who are currently stuck on a PS4 because it's still so difficult to get a PS5 and likely will be until well into 2022? Sony are essentially punishing them for not being able to purchase their console! Ultimately it should be available for these people to play on their PS4 and then on PS5 when they get one without having to go and buy the damn thing again.

Arcadeheroes · 03-09-2021 1:35pm

I dont know why Sony First Party games are held up to such a high regard ? The majority of the games they make are no different from Ubisoft made games just with a heavier focus on Cinematic Storytelling . And even if their games are the Citizen Kane of videogames still does not justify bad business practices.

Those who are labelling people as entitled also makes no sense to me when they are paying customers .

at the end of the day there are people who cannot find a ps5 and are now forced to think will they wait till they can find a PS5 to play Horizon Forbidden West , while Sony are banking on the idea of people double dipping for the ps4 version and the ps5 versions because they are so PIG headed that they think they are the greatest Studio in the industry .

super_furry · 03-09-2021 2:42pm

Personally I always felt that Horizon Zero Dawn was pretty but dull. It didn't help that it released in the same week as Breath of the Wild.

recyclops · 03-09-2021 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841910#Comment_117841910

This is exactly how I feel, when you actually look at the list of Sony Exclusives most are very good but thats about it, zero dawn was fine this I am sure will be fine, but in direct response to how the series X doesnt feel next gen compared to the PS5 I think this is quite hyperbolic , yes astrobot was fun and the controller felt different.

Months down the line I cant care less if I pick up the Xbox or PS controller, its the games and system I want to play and I always find myself leaning more towards xbox, more choice, more customer friendly practices ( heck they have given me near 90 quid in vouchers alone just for playing this year) and when I look at the future there is really only God of war as a sony exclusive that to me is a must play , Horizon will be played but unsure as of when

Retr0gamer · 03-09-2021 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842433#Comment_117842433

It's the Megadrive Aladdin of the PS4 generation. Wows with graphics but it's kind of ordinary.

Really wish Sony would move away from their unimaginative reskinning of old assassin's creed games. I mean even Ubisoft has moved away from old style assassin's creed.

johnny_ultimate · 03-09-2021 3:47pm

Horizon was the first traditional open-world game I played after Breath of the Wild, and it quickly showed how BotW had quite ruined the Ubisoft-model of open-world games (map with lots of icons and checklists to complete) for me.

A bit of distance from BotW does show Horizon has an unusually strong combat system. And the tech is obviously great. But there's a lot of very mediocre open-world busywork in the way. Hopefully the sequel streamlines it all or has some new ideas. It unquestionably looks great already, but there's only so far gorgeous HDR underwater coral effects get ya :)

Potential-Monke · 03-09-2021 8:06pm

Lots of anger here based on personal opinions. My own personal opinion is that I loved HZD, and I'm excited for FW. I think the extra immersion from the DS is worth paying a bit extra, along with all the other benefits over the 4. I don't make games, but I'm sure it's not as easy or straight forwards as some people think to make it stable for both consoles. For single player MT-free games, I again don't mind the extra. If I didn't have a 5 and got it on 4, and for some reason would want to play it again on the 5 (I rarely replay games), I wouldn't mind extra if there were benefits. And those benefits are again based on personal preference. I love the DS, other people think it's a gimmick. Mad how opinions differ.

And it's true, lots of people will turn off/down the haptics (I don't like gyro myself, but haven't encountered having to use it yet), doesn't mean it's a gimmick. I can't wait to see the haptic features on FW, Sony will be pushing it and for me, it's exciting. For others, they will judge it based on their own personal preferences, and some will word it in such a way that if you were to dare disagree then there's something wrong with you.

At the end of the day, vote with your wallets. Don't like it, don't buy it, and that's the only way they'll learn. Surprisingly, I haven't seen this happen yet. It's as if not everyone thinks the same. I'll stand by my support insofar as I think Sony are still making games for the players, rather than the stockholders. Gamepass is great, no doubt, but I can't see it being sustainable at the current price. I feel like they're throwing money at the industry hoping that it will eventually make them kings of the market.

Anyway, this is bringing it way off topic, so I'll leave it there and I look forward to more spoiler free HFW info.

Mr Crispy · 05-09-2021 1:32am

Thursday was to be a celebration of Horizon Forbidden West and the amazing team at Guerrilla working to deliver it on February 18, 2022. However, it’s abundantly clear that the offerings we confirmed in our pre-order kickoff missed the mark.

Last year we made a commitment to deliver free upgrades for our cross-gen launch titles, which included Horizon Forbidden West. While the pandemic’s profound impact pushed Forbidden West out of the launch window we initially envisioned, we will stand by our offer: Players who purchase Horizon Forbidden West on PlayStation 4 will be able to upgrade to the PlayStation 5 version for free.

I also want to confirm today that moving forward, PlayStation first-party exclusive cross-gen titles (newly releasing on PS4 & PS5)–both digital and physical*–will offer a $10 USD digital upgrade option from PS4 to PS5. This will apply to the next God of War and Gran Turismo 7, and any other exclusive cross-gen PS4 & PS5 title published by Sony Interactive Entertainment.

— Jim Ryan, President & CEO, Sony Interactive Entertainment

From the official PS Blog

J. Marston · 05-09-2021 2:06am

Translation; "We tried to pull a fast one and you fúcks caught us. Fine, have your free upgrade. Its the last one you're getting."

EoinMcLovin · 05-09-2021 10:22am

So am I right in thinking that if planning to play on PS5, pick up the PS4 copy and upgrade to PS5 for free saving a tenner?

Horizon: Forbidden West (Horizon Zero Dawn Sequel) PS5

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