F1 2021 Round 12: Belgian Grand Prix

artanevilla · 30-08-2021 1:03pm

The race could have been run, but it could not have been done safely, particularly at Spa. If you are flying up through Eau Rouge and Radillion blind and there's a car gone spinning off ahead you will have a fatality. Hubert was killed on the dry and look what happened the other week with Aiken. Add in the wet conditions to that and no way you can run a safe race.

Imagine calling a driver a bitch for not wanting to put their life on the line for the entertainment of some lad sitting on their sofa at home.

flazio · 30-08-2021 1:15pm

Thinking a bit, if they put a permanent "double yellow zone" from the pitlane exit line to the line where DRS should have activated on the Kemmel straight I reckon the race could have been run reasonably safely. Neutralise the race after turn 1,down the back pits, through Eau Rouge and onto the straight and let them race the rest. If they come together or off anywhere else it's unlikey to be fatal.

antodeco · 30-08-2021 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822170#Comment_117822170

Well done, you have literally just countered your OWN argument.

That happened when the track was dry. Imagine what it would be like if the track was wet with zero visibility. THATs the issue here. Whether you are the best driver or not (for the purpose of appeasing you, you can choose if the latter is the W series) the track, but its general standards has a higher risk than other circruits. Hence the multiples crashes at the SAME part of the track. Add no visibility and the risk is magnified.

[Deleted User] · 30-08-2021 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822766#Comment_117822766

It was fine for Inters yet was "too unsafe". Pull the other one. If that's too dangerous then it's always too dangerous.

[Deleted User] · 30-08-2021 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822832#Comment_117822832

No I haven't DONE anything OF the KIND. I'm not SURE WHICH words SHOULD BE all caps so I'm just GOING TO do it RANDOMLY AND HOPE that it helps you TO UNDERSTAND.

Can you explain to me WHAT relevance the ACCIDENT in the W Series has to Formula 1? Please. Because there was no ISSUE with VISIBILITY. The ISSUE was INEPT drivers. The funny thing is that I do CARE about safety and the danger of PUTTING drivers who don't have the skills for the MACHINERY they're in is unforgivable. Yet they've CREATED a series around it.

If me and my mates were sent around Silverstone in Formula Ford cars and we all spun off due to a lack of skill or experience is the evidence that Formula 3 cars shouldn't race there? No, I don't think it is. The drivers in the W Series are all better drivers than me and my mates but plenty are below the level that should be necessary to drive at such a level. That one of them made a mistake and the rest followed her off in sympathy has as much relevance to F1 as the bag of Doritos I just ate.

donspeekinglesh · 30-08-2021 2:11pm

The accident in W Series was due to sudden rain right at the start of the session. First time through on a quali lap and the track was damp.

The drivers are all good enough for the series that they're racing in.

Shelflife · 30-08-2021 2:18pm

I dont have a problem with the drivers not wanting to race or with the race effectively been cancelled.

What they ended up doing was a complete farce, id imagine it was done to fulfil contractual obligations so that they could officially say a race was run.

It brings the sport into disrepute and it screws over fans and sponsors, you can only do that so many times before you lose them.

They may well have been technically correct but everything about it was against the spirit of the sport and any contractual obligations.

martingriff · 30-08-2021 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822927#Comment_117822927

Jesus you have some nerve calling drivers at the top of there profession below par just because of a crash. Anyone in a race car can crash from the very top drivers to the ones in the lower teams. You know even Hamilton ( I may not like him but is one of the best) has crashed and said it was unsafe out there

martingriff · 30-08-2021 2:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822558#Comment_117822558

I would assume giving the half points had .5 in them then they should

[Deleted User] · 30-08-2021 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117823341#Comment_117823341

If they were at the top of their profession they wouldn't be in the W Series.

antodeco · 30-08-2021 3:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822927#Comment_117822927

I appreciate you using capitals. They say the best form of flattery is imitation. Thank you

quokula · 30-08-2021 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822832#Comment_117822832

So what you’re saying is, if that happened in the dry, then they should not race at Spa in the dry? Because it clearly had nothing to do with the weather.

quokula · 30-08-2021 4:00pm

https://youtu.be/vpxQmZgPFHs

Clearly it would be simply impossible to race with poor visibility.

flazio · 30-08-2021 4:15pm

< deleted post >

quokula · 30-08-2021 4:34pm

This is what the most experienced driver on the grid Kimi Raikkonen had to say, pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly

I think the spray was bad, but honestly, any track, any time we are in the wet, there's always going to be spray and it's not much better. If we take Imola [earlier this season], at the start, we could not see anything. Probably most of the guys who were not first, or in the first couple of rows, couldn't see anything. Once you go it starts clearing up.

SureYWouldntYa · 30-08-2021 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117824026#Comment_117824026

But in Imola it stopped raining, therefore giving it the chance to clear up

It never stopped in Spa, and you're dealing with a long track where wet laps would be taking the guts of 2 mins 30, so you'd have parts of the track being rained on for maybe 2 mins at times without a car coming through to clear any water

flazio · 30-08-2021 4:42pm

Which is why just for the race yesterday I was proposing Masi designate the Eau Rouge complex a hazard on the track, wave double yellows from the pitlane exit to the start of the Kemmel straight, so no overtaking, reduce speed and single file through there and let them race on the rest of the track.

Joeface · 30-08-2021 5:02pm

I thought the footage linked above was mad to see driving in and showed it was possible , I can never remember the races that far back so had to look it up

19 laps behind the Safety car before racing got underway . maybe that is the root they should have gone but again Spa is different in length by some margin which means there really wouldn't have been any clearing surface water over a lap length, And there were a number collisions in the race 5 retirements based on them , were the spending caps and penalties to the same level as today . There is a lot at risk for the teams with stuff going wrong .

SureYWouldntYa · 30-08-2021 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117824061#Comment_117824061

But with double yellows people will still be pushing to try and get any advantage they can, see all the cars speeding up to turn 1 in Baku after Max’s tyre blew up and basically ignoring the yellow flags

quokula · 30-08-2021 8:03pm

Formula 1: grip is fine but we can’t race because of visibility

Formula 3: on the same track on the same day

Captain_Crash · 30-08-2021 8:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117824890#Comment_117824890

It’s a fair point that a race was held earlier that day on the same track in the same conditions! Not saying it was or wasn’t safe enough to race (my minds not made up) but the conditions remained the same all day and they managed to put a race on! The F1 cars surely don’t kick up much more water??

barryribs · 30-08-2021 9:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117824145#Comment_117824145

Brazil 2016 is a more recent example and was very similar conditions to yesterday, there were rivers running across the track that day. After running behind the safety car there was enough water cleared for racing after 8 laps. The race is best remembered for Max having one of the greatest drives ever to third and an insane catch after aqua-planing. There were a lot of accidents, which happen even in the best conditions, but it's racing. And for everyone saying that the drivers are the ones to be listened to, some of them ran inters that day and ended up in the wall.

The right decision yesterday was to run 10-15 laps behind the safety car, then another 10 behind VSC to see how conditions went, then make a decision to either stop the race or continue under green flag conditions. The FIA would have been seen to have done the right thing by the fans at the track, and not the farce of running two laps to tick a box.

Corben Dallas · 30-08-2021 9:35pm

Very poor show by F1 yesterday, 2 Laps behind the Safety Car is not a Grand Prix, Happy for George Russell but another PR disaster for F1.

Race should have run on Monday. Full refund to fans who cant stick around, i'm sure they could 'get' marshals. Unless forecast was the same for Mon, then wait a day and run full race.

In the US they cant run races (Nascar etc) on Ovals in the rain so they give fans a 'Rain Check' which can be used for next years race, or turn up when they run the race on Monday. They also did it recently with Daytona 24hrs (race was run on Mon) F1 could take a learn from the US on how to look after its fans.

Lewis is right fans should get a full refund..... and Max and himself (Belgium is 2nd home GP for Dutch fans) should make a gesture and stump up a few million each for the loyal F1 fan's refunds.

[Deleted User] · 30-08-2021 9:40pm

One of the first things they need to do is put the start times back an hour to where they used to be. Gives more time and flexibility if there are issues. Not just for rain either, track or barrier damage is what I'd have in mind. I think NASCAR used to run as support in Canada, one of those hits a barrier at 120mph you've got a big job on. Bahrain last year was what, an hour and a half of a delay? Most races wouldn't fit in the 3 hour running time in that case. We've seen in Australia and Brazil run close on light even within the 2 hour race time.

Though I'm sure someone will be along soon enough to tell me I just hate change.

FrostyJack · 30-08-2021 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117825277#Comment_117825277

I thought I was going mad with the start time times had change. Is it for foreign audiences or so Sky can fit more adverts in between waffle?

TheChrisD · 30-08-2021 10:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117824956#Comment_117824956

Yea, they kinda do. Much faster speeds, much larger tyres with far more tread, so way way more water being displaced into the air.

Jordan 199 · 30-08-2021 10:47pm

.....

Captain_Crash · 30-08-2021 11:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117825458#Comment_117825458

That’s true! I’d love to see a comparison to see how much of a difference is made! Surely it’s something the FIA have already looked at tho

mickdw · 30-08-2021 11:46pm

Race control didn't have a grip on the rules yesterday imo.

I think they were should have been challenged on a good few points.

The idea that the race distance be reduced by 1 lap for every delayed start - Brindle was on the money here staring that this rule related to where the cars needed to go around again for a second or 3rd formation lap. Yesterday they shortened the race by a lap everytime they announced a delay.

The whole Perez fiasco. Red bull contacted masi and told him they would be withdrawing due to excess damage. He later came back in with much confusion. I figured Perez would have needed to have been allowed to overtake the safety car to do his extra lap like many safety car restarts but there was no mention of that being required with Masi firstly giving a definite no to Perez rejoining and later saying it's ok.

I thought the rules re race running time and overall race time were straight forward. My understanding which may be outdated was that race was 2 hour max running with a 4 hour period to run the race once started as per Canada 2011. I don't know what went on yesterday. It started but it didn't and then they decided to stop the clock too.

Masi just doesn't appear to have the experience to get it right under pressure like Charlie Whitting did. I realise they have a whole team but yesterday was bad.

MadYaker · 31-08-2021 6:51am

It’s not the first time this season Masi has looked out of his depth. Is there a reason they can’t start the races earlier in the day? Especially if it looks like loads of rain is on the cards.

F1 2021 Round 12: Belgian Grand Prix

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