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Bank holiday payments if contracted to work 12 hour shift on Monday

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  • 17-08-2021 8:23pm
    #1
    cookie1234
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭


    Hi there,

    Im a part time worker contracted to work 12 hour shifts on Monday and Tuesday.


    If I don't work on a bank holiday Monday my employer says that as a normal working day for most employees is 8 hours I only get 8 hours pay and have to use 4 hours annual leave to make up the difference in pay.


    I've been googling but haven't managed to find a clear answer. Any advice would be appreciated.


    Thanks



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    #2
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭cml387


    That's correct. A bank holiday is defined as eight hours holiday only.



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    #3
    cookie1234
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭cookie1234


    Thanks for responding.

    Where is that definition found?



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    #4
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭cml387


    OK I should preface this by saying that it's my company's policy.

    The thinking would be that the standard working week is 39 hours regardless of the shift pattern (i.e. 8 hour days or 12 hour days)

    and if an extra 4 hours holiday was given to those on shift it would be an unfair advantage.

    However being part time, it may be down to the individual's contract with the employer.



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    #5
    Masala
    Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Masala


    If you don’t work the BH Monday ... as a full time member of staff you get an additional 8 hrs of leave. My employer puts this on my holiday entitlement. I don’t get paid it on top of my 39 hrs.


    If if you only working 24 hrs a week as part of your contract.... then the 8 hrs is pro-rata. So I would expect that you get 24/39ths of 8 hrs.



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    #6
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,181 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I think the the A/L OP may be worried about as well there is at least 5 Mondays that are bank holidays each year. OP would have 96 hours holidays in a year this will be 20 hours of that gone. As well there it is possible at least one other of the days fall on a BH as well.

    However OP you have not really defined the issues is your employer looking for you to work BH or are they closed on BH.

    Either way if he is defining a BH as 8 hours for you I would not be inclined to push too far if you have to work them. It means any you take off will only cost you 4 hours A/L

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #7
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770229#Comment_117770229

    Where is that defined?



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    #8
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Edit

    Post edited by mrslancaster on


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    #9
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭cml387


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777342#Comment_117777342

    I don't know if there is any definition, but I have been doing the clocks for shift and non shift employees for years and that has always been the way. If it was wrong it would have definitely been flagged (we are a relatively large MNC)



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    #10
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,411 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777342#Comment_117777342
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/20/enacted/en/html

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/475/made/en/print

    Looks like it's a fifth of your normal weekly pay rather than 8 hours, should normally work out the same.



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    #11
    ibarelycare
    Registered Users Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117779148#Comment_117779148

    The one-fifth of your weekly hours is the entitlement to employees who don't usually work on public holidays, so that's not relevant to the OP.



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    #12
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,411 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117780200#Comment_117780200

    Ah I was srcolling on my phone and picked out the wrong paragraph. Still no mention of 8 hours though.

    5. (1) If the employee concerned works or is normally required to work during any part of the day which is a public holiday, then—

    ( a ) in case the employee's pay is calculated wholly by reference to any of the matters referred to in Regulation 3(2) of these Regulations, ...

    Since they're part-time I guess this doesn't apply.

    ( b ) in any other case, the relevant rate in respect of that public holiday shall be the sum that is equal to the average Daily pay (excluding any pay for overtime) of the employee calculated over—

    (i) the period of 13 weeks ending immediately before that public holiday,

    I'm not sure what to use for the average daily pay here, over 5, 7, or days actually worked?



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    #13
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    Unfortunately it will be calculated based on average weekly pay so op will not get 12 hours even though he works on average 12 hours a day.

    8 hours is actually better than what the op is entitled to, but it is worth to have a look at the contract and employee handbook.


    Similarly op will not earn 20 days holidays paid at 12 hours a day if he decided to always take holidays on Monday and Tuesday he/she normally works.

    You shouldn't however be asked to take 4 hours holidays that day to make up the shortfall.



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    #14
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Part-time employees have the same public holiday entitlements as full time provided they've worked 40 hours in the preceding 5 weeks.

    If they normally work on the day a public holiday falls that means: a paid day off on the day; an extra day annual leave; a different day off within a month; an extra days pay. Employer decides which. If its pay, then its a normal days pay. The previous 13week average is only used where weekly pay changes due to roster changes, commission based pay, piece-work etc

    if they dont normally work on that day, say public holiday falls on friday in OP's case, then they are paid an extra 1/5th of their normal week pay as compensation.

    Edit: added "as full time"

    Post edited by mrslancaster on


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    #15
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117780967#Comment_117780967

    statutory paid annual leave for a full year is 4 weeks of your normal week, if you work 6 eight hour days then its 4 of those, if you work 2 twelve hour days then its 4 of those. If you work less than a full year then its pro-rata.

    The leave year is april to march but some companies use jan to dec. Some companies pay more than statutory or additional days for long service.



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    #16
    cookie1234
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭cookie1234


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788472#Comment_117788472

    Thanks for all the information.


    I've read I should be paid a "normal days pay" in a couple of places but nothing confirming if it's my normal days pay of 12 hours or the 8 hour day? I appreciate i gain over employees who work 8 hours but noone else has to take annual leave on a bank holiday to ensure their weekly pay is not reduced



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    #17
    Killed
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Killed


    The number of hours due to be paid is the equivalent of the number of hours worked in the last normal day by the employee prior to the public holiday.



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    #18
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790061#Comment_117790061

    Is your contract for 12 hours daily or a basic 8 hours & then you work extra hours as required (overtime)



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    #19
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,181 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790095#Comment_117790095

    I am not sure if that is correct.I worked part-time with a semi state body after retiring from my previous job. I worked a 22 hour week, for B/H or A/L I was paid for 4.5 hours even though my working days varied from 4-8 hours.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #20
    Killed
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Killed


    It's correct, the WRC helpline will confirm it.



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    #21
    cookie1234
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭cookie1234


    Yes, contract for 12 hours daily work on Monday and Tuesday.

    I may work additional hours on other days but these would be additional to my contracted hours.

    Any additional hours are paid at my normal hourly rate until I hit 40 hours in the week. If I worked above 40 hours I would be paid a higher overtime rate, same as a full time colleague.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790139#Comment_117790139




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    #22
    cookie1234
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭cookie1234


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790095#Comment_117790095

    Thanks Killed.


    Are you saying, as per WRC, if my normal day is 12 hours I should be paid for the full 12 hours on a bank holiday I do not work?



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    #23
    Killed
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Killed


    If you normally work the day a BH falls on then your entitlement is based on the last normal day worked. If 12 hours is your normal day then yes, if you don't normally work it then it's a fifth of your normal week.



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    #24
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Edit



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    #25
    cookie1234
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭cookie1234


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117796011#Comment_117796011

    Thanks for the advice



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    #26
    kathleen37
    Registered Users Posts: 810 ✭✭✭kathleen37


    I work 4, 10 hour days a week and I always get the full day on a bank holiday.



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    #27
    kathleen37
    Registered Users Posts: 810 ✭✭✭kathleen37


    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/public_holidays_in_ireland.html#

    Would this be you, OP? (sorry, I just reread and saw you're part time?) I still think you should get the full day

    Part-time employees

    If you have worked for your employer at least 40 hours in the 5 weeks before the public holiday and the public holiday falls on a day you normally work you are entitled to a day's pay for the public holiday. If you are required to work that day you are entitled to an additional day's pay.

    If you do not normally work on that particular day you should receive one-fifth of your weekly pay. Even if you are never rostered to work on a public holiday you are entitled to one-fifth of your weekly pay as compensation for the public holiday.


    https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/what_you_should_know/public-holidays/


    "Full-time workers have immediate entitlement to benefit for public holidays, and part-time workers have entitlement to benefit when they have worked a total of 40 hours in the previous 5 weeks.

    When a person works on a public holiday they are entitled to be paid for the day in accordance with their agreed rates. In addition they also have an entitlement to benefit for the public holiday. This can be different for each public holiday and each employee depending on the individual's work pattern."

    Seems pretty clear. No mention of an 8 hour day anywhere I could find?



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