Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Bob Dylan Sex Abuse Allegation

Options
1246712

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,354 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Time shouldnt matter when it comes for adults to say what happened to them as children. Our history in this country is proof of that.


    But,

    I'd wait for the court to investigate this to see what comes of it. I'd like to this this wouldnt be true, but who knows. From what I understand it's a civil not criminal case.

    All Eyes On Rafah



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    tbf to Dylan, the dates definitely don't add up for there to be a 6 week window for him to be grooming her, as she has alleged, unless he groomed her on tour (which was filmed for a documentary, so unlikely).

    So, if we discount the 6 weeks grooming and say it was a once off or a weekend or a week, while not impossible, is still unlikely as this was the time period he was getting engaged to Sara Lowndes (and "gaslighting" Joan Baez afaik), it's reasonably well documented where he was during these weeks. While a once off event would still be despicable, it's fundamentally different than what has been alleged. It goes to the heart of the accuser's credibility, imo.

    As to why Dylan is an unlikely candidate, it's hard to say, he's certainly a ladies man but usually these allegations are knocking around for years (Jimmy Page, David Bowie etc) whereas Dylan is known to have had affairs with (and marriages to) his backing singers, there doesn't seem to be the same stuff said about Dylan. In fact, most of what you read about Dylan, on and off the road, is that he's a devoted father who treats his band like family. He actually comes across as a pretty normal, if quiet, guy off-stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,158 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Does she allege he groomed her every day of the 6 weeks? Or does she say it happened over a 6 week period? The former would appear to be ruled out by the schedule, the latter isn't rules out at all and we're back to square 1.

    I've seen her allegation says the grooming took place "over a period of 6 weeks". If that's the case then it doesn't mean every moment of the 6 weeks, or every day of the 6 weeks, or even one day of each week. It just means it started and ended in 6 weeks.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Doesn't matter if he didn't bring her to the UK, unless you can find 6 weeks in April tbh.

    If he did bring her on tour that's obviously different.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 25,104 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    She was 12 at the time of the alleged crime true, but she’s had decades of living as an adult in the mean time ...

    it happened or it didn’t. The burden of proof would be on her, however..asking a person, an accused person to recall events, that led up to them meeting if they did, over half a century ago, where they went what they said to each other... with a view to having them defend themselves is a bit mad...



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,158 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    So is the allegation that he groomed her every day for 6 weeks or he groomed her over a 6 week period. It's important because they are different claims.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,158 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah, that's how victims sometimes behave. Particularly when they were a hill when the aleged incident occurred. Its not evidence that it did or didn't happen.

    The length of time involved will certainly make it more difficult to verify what happened. But that's what they have to work with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,354 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    I've trouble remembering last month, never mind half a century ago!

    All Eyes On Rafah



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Why are you pretending I think all musicians are pedophiles?

    What's wrong with you?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    His movements and activity in 1965 are very heavily documented, bar the Beatles he was the biggest musician of the mid 60s. It should be easy to prove or disprove where he was during the timeline of the allegations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭dogbert27




    It's just difficult to see how a 12 year old could be groomed in a Chelsea hotel apartment over a 6 week period with Dylan's schedule below. The accuser is unknown. Her parents have passed away so we cannot know who they were to say if the accuser was in fact in New York at the time. People working in the hotel will be long gone.

    This case would be impossible to prove and if anything it's a lawyer taking a chance on a big pay off considering Dylan sold his entire catalogue for 300 million dollars in December 2020.


    The schedule shows the musician had been on the road on the West Coast and the UK for most of that time period.  

    He had a live performance in Berkeley, California on April 3 and one in Vancouver on April 9. 

    He played a show in Portland two weeks later on April 23 and another in Seattle the following day. 

    Dylan then embarked on his England tour from April 30 to May 10.  

    He arrived in London just a few days earlier on April 26, and did not return to the US until June 2, according to the dates.  

    The UK tour was also documented in D.A. Pennebaker's 1967 film Don't Look Back.  

    A timeline of Dylan's activities throughout the year show he took a trip to Portugal with first wife Sara Lowndes in 'mid May' after his tour and returned home with her on June 2. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,158 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Does the tour dates preclude his meeting the girl at any points during during 6 week period?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    This is beyond unlikely. Bob Dylan was followed and filmed, and was on tour for all but ten days, if that. Six weeks is an impossibility. Short of taking a dump, Bob Dylan had no privacy then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,662 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Be interested to hear what Joan Baez has to say about all this. And Sara. Both were with him around that time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    There needs to be a statute of limitations on this stuff.

    I absolutely understand the need to give children time to understand what happened to them, therapy, etc., so they can come for their abuser when they're ready, but surely 55 years is excessive.

    Although, thinking about this more, perhaps even sullying his name (assuming he's guilty) is somewhat of a win for her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,158 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09



    Does the girl allege that he groomed her every day for 6 weeks or over that he groomed her over a 6 week period?

    Ps. I've asked this guesting 4 or 5 times now and nobody seems to either know or be interested in answering. The distinction between the 2 is important to how significant the timeliness is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    The William Roache (Ken Barlow, Coronation Street) case is another that comes to mind. The accusers didn't seem to be able to distinguish between him and his character on the TV show. The accusers also said she wanted to get him on the Jeremy Kyle show to take a lie detector test.

    I hope that all sex crime offenders are caught, tried and convicted. But we need to be wary about equating allegations with guilt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,662 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Just says "over a 6 week period". So dunno if that mean "for 6 weeks" or a few times within a 6 week period.

    Her lawyer would want to be on the money at every turn here. There are "Dylanologists" out there who knows hat he had for breakfast most days during that era.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 20,158 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    But that's crucial to whether the timeline is meaningful or not. If she said "every day for 6 weeks" then the timeline exonerates BD if she said "over a period of 6 weeks" then the timeline is meaningless because it leaves windows where the alleged incidents could have taken place.

    To go a little deeper, if she specified dates which the timeline rules out (e.g. she said they met in London but the tour dates show he was on Canada all that week) , then that's important. But that's not what we have here. At this point, while we only know her claim is that it occurred "over 6 weeks", the timeline is absolutely useless to ruling it in or out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,644 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Complete nonsense. If Bob Dylan gets done on account of this, but David Bowie's reputation somehow remains clean, then something is desperately wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,158 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Of course it shouldn't have been ok. But it wasn't a problem for those artists at the time. That much is clear.

    I've edited the post you quoted to clarify that I don't think it was ever ok for those artists to have sex with kids. I'm commenting on how the society at the time behaved and they certainly didn't make it a problem for the stars mentioned.



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Society? I beg to differ-the UK kicked Gerry Lee Lewis out of England for marrying a 14 year old girl - which “society” are you speaking of? And that was many years before 1965- as a result both the UK and USA shunned Gerry Lee and his career effectively ended at that point



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,158 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Actually, you're right about Lewis. The girl he married was 13 and it did damage his career for a while (we're not talking about criminal proceedings). You're exaggerating that he was kicked out of the UK, he wasn't kicked out. Why exaggerate?

    No such trouble for Elvis, mind. His career was grand.

    In any case, the point is that it wasn't such a big deal back then and people were more accepting of it for one reason or another. The notion the BD couldn't possibly have done it is not supported by anything we've seen. We don't have a clue if the allegations are true or not. We just don't have evidence one way or the other. If you've made up your mind about whether it happened or not (or are leaning one way or the other) then you're doing so based purely on prejudice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    The Bowie thing is almost like a bug in the code used by humans. He was literally a pedophile but almost everyone's ok with it because they like his music.


    Really?!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    The claim is grooming took place over a 6 week period between April and May 1965. With his schedule taking across America and across the Atlantic the claim does not look plausible



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    His shows were cancelled and his hotel told him to find alternative accommodation- I’d call that kicked out myself



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    The State of New York did away with the SOL for a year to allow for prosecutions relating to Epstein and others to proceed, it as reverted back now, this case was filed the last day the change was effective.


    Personally I think usually there as been a lot of smoke where a fire is eventually found, and this is not the case with Bob Dylan. There is just one 50 yo allegation that accuses him of doing something in NY during a timeframe he was almost never in NY.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Well her memory might be wrong on the details (it's very easy to get dates mixed up), but even if we assume she is 100% telling the truth and just has the dates wrong, he'll say he didn't do it, she'll say he did it, and then what? Stalemate?

    I wonder what are the chances his lawyer will say just give her 2 million to go away and admit no wrongdoing.



Advertisement