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Road to Tokyo 2020 - Irish Olympic News

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    We needed the structure and investment and professionalism aspect. Money made a difference. It always does. It opened doors. But we still had some world class operators in the 1980s and 1990s..



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Indeed we had. Still have very fond memories of watching the boxing internationals on Sports Stadium as a kid with the great Noel Andrews on mic. The Russells, Storeys, Phil Sutcliffe etc. Some great operators for sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The Zaur Antia article was clearly referring to the early 2000s and not the early 1990s, when we had Nicolas Cruz as the head coach. But having said that, most of western Europe was left behind at that point with the rise of Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc as powerhouses of amateur boxing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Ah right, i haven't seen the article, but I think you only have to listen to the likes of Kenneth Egan and Eric Donovan talking about Zaur and the whole set up to understand what difference it made. Egan was the classic example of a talented kid who needed that sense of structure and discipline around him, else i seriously doubt he's getting anywhere close to that Olympic medal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Egan had kind of a soft route to final in Beijing, and when he met someone really good, he lost. Also, the Chinese lad was his first opponent in Beijing that was taller, and Egan struggled with it.

    I think his toughest opponent was GBs Tony Jefferies in the semis, and Jeffries is very ordinary

    Almost sure Beterbiev beaten by Chinese lad enroute to final.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    More soft medals, huh?

    Anyway, that wasn't really the point. Without a radical change in culture and departure from the way things had been done, Egan was getting nowhere near Beijing in the first place, let alone getting the benefit of a nice draw he then showed the skill and confidence to take full advantage of.

    No need to take my word for it. Here's the man himself.

    "I failed to qualify for Athens in 2004 as I bottled it in three Olympic qualifiers. I didn’t feel good enough physically or mentally. After I lost that final qualifier I was talking about hanging up the gloves. However, the High Performance Unit was set up in 2003 – there was no structure before – and all of a sudden there was a plan.

    Gary Keegan came in and came up a five-year plan (towards Beijing 2008). He drew a line across the floor in the gym and told us how hard we would all have to work; the sacrifices we’d have to make. He said ‘if you’re interested, step across’. I was the first to step across."



  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Physical growth and maturity also big factor for Egan. Young yet fully matured LHW in 2003/2004..Egan really matured and developed physically at LHW 2006-2008



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    He may have been robbed in that Olympic final. It seemed very close and looked like a hometown decision.

    Unfortunately, he was still not right in the head and went off the rails shortly afterwards. Within months of the Games, he was drinking very heavily and pretty much out of control (I'm not revealing anything about him btw.....he talks about all this himself and his struggle with alcoholism).



  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Not at all robbed. Close fight that Chinese lad deserved.

    More sour grapes from us on that one, and Egan fell for it and lapped it up..



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    That's not how I recall it. He was landing some big hits on the Chinese guy and the punch counter thing wasn't even responding. Every time the Chinese fella connected though, it came up as a score. It was definitely very close. You wouldn't say daylight robbery but it smacked of a hometown decision. Even the American commentators on NBC questioned how the verdict went against him.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Was close. But correct decision. And yes, was in Beijing, but 5 neutral judges. He just couldn’t get past the lad.

    Egan was very good for Ireland, I just never saw him as really world class, silver medal notwithstanding. He never beat the cream of the crop at LHW



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,861 ✭✭✭Christy42


    You say he was close to a gold medal and is not world class. It just sounds more like someone not willing to give credit to an Irish medal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    There’s more to it than that…

    The silver medal was a great achievement. He was clearly a talent. But the top half draw was very favourable to Egan. He beat 4 guys that were not near world class. All the big names were in bottom half the draw, eliminating each other.

    I was making the point in the overall elite/world class sense. Outside of Beijing, Egan went to 4 WCs (2003-2009) and never got past QFs.

    Egan was never up at the top here. He had a good draw in Beijing, and had he not, and met say, Beterbiev earlier, he never medals.

    Egan’s issue at world/elite level was that he did not have a rounded game, and this let him down against the cream of the crop. He was quite one dimensional and pedestrian in that way. Had his core skills that he used to the best, but the lack of an overall game (inside game, combination punching, front foot attacking prowess) cost him when faced with elite opposition. Had a LHW Michael Carruth style. The counter punching southpaw with the right hook counter.

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I recall it as simply a very closely fought competitive fight that was not a robbery, or close to a robbery. Egan getting the nod would not have been the incorrect call, same way as the Chinese lad getting it was not incorrect



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Natalya Coyle suggests she is very open to the idea of going to Paris in 2024 and that talk that she has 'retired' from Olympic sport is very premature.

    That's good to hear. It would effectively be a free hit for her after the fiasco of the pentathlon show jumping this year. Win a medal and it's a fairy tale ending, but even if she wasn't to, there would be still be lots of goodwill from the Irish public towards her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,247 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Talk that the show-jumping has been/will be removed and replaced by cycling. Not sure what this would mean for Coyle's chances.

    Modern pentathlon votes to ditch horse riding after Tokyo Olympic turmoil | Olympic Games | The Guardian



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Natalya's background is equestrian, so it could possibly disadvantage her (but she is a very good pentathlon all rounder, so who knows).



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    Regardless of the impact on Coyle I think the equestrian needs to go in terms of the credibility of the sport. Having Olympic medals determined by the luck of the draw to the extent we saw in Tokyo is ridiculous. Ideally in terms of retaining the original concept of the event you'd keep the equestrian but allow the competitors to provide their own horses. But as that is likely to be cost prohibitive it's best to just replace the equestrian altogether.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,668 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Well hurray for that!

    If the Olympic event this year was anything to go by (and in fairness it's the only pentathlon event I've ever watched), the equestrian was cruel and unusual for both the competitor and the horses!

    Plus, it amounted to basically making a lottery of the whole thing - random selection of horses, whose quality (or performance on the day at least) appeared to vary wildly, and then that result having such a huge bearing on the final run event.

    In the short term it may not suit Natalya Coyle, and if that's the case then it's a huge shame - but long-term it can only be a good thing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,113 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Long term it’ll mean the sport leaving the Olympics as tradition was the only thing keeping it in

    I doubt it’ll last past Paris



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Though it still has potential IMO. Sort of a variation of the triathlon, but with a couple of skills based ones in fencing and shooting added in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,478 ✭✭✭✭KevIRL


    Saw your twitter post earlier, no Boxing, MP or Weightlifting on the inital list of 28 sports for 2028. Seems mad that boxing might be off, serious blow to our medal hopes too



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