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Climate Change is Normal and Welcome in My Opinion

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭dePeatrick


    I went over and read the thread, that is a complete lie and not the only one in that thread about what the OP did or did not say. Must be the time of night but the level of debate here has dropped through the floor in the last few hours. Goodnight.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    I cycle every day I notice it doesn't seem to rain as much as it did 2 years ago and we can go 10 days or more with no rain. Ireland seems to be getting warmer in the summer

    Also see mega fires in Australia California , some American towns are running out of water droughts are more frequent and longer fires are lasting longer whole towns are being destroyed by fires

    Google rising sea levels Miami many coastal areas are threatened by rising sea levels and flooding

    Some parts of America are becoming close to unliveable due to rising heat levels

    Most people find it hard to work in 100 degrees and you can't go outside for more than a few minutes if you are rich and live in a mansion you can afford to ignore the world at least until you go outside

    There's probably some drug company's who might welcome covid as it means billions in profits from selling a vaccine

    If there was no wars no one would buy tanks or military guns

    Every crisis can benefit someone we see more extreme weather effects in most country's droughts floods fires Iran is running short of water there's fires in many parts of Turkey we live in an open economy global warming will effect Ireland it will cause wars and some areas of the world becoming impossible to live in

    Every human needs a reliable supply of water to drink and to cook and clean no matter where they live

    Why would tourists come to Ireland if you can't even swim at the beach



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,301 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Climate change has already increased sea levels by 20cm on average

    thats an awful lot and we’re only just getting started. The rate of increase is accelerating



  • Registered Users Posts: 81,733 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    But a lot of it is pure rubbish planning, take that pearl in RTE's Climate Change Department the town of Salthill in Galway for example, this is how it was originally, it was always going to flood building seaward from this unless the oceans started to drain of water...




  • Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭revelman


    I don’t know why everyone is getting so worked up. If you read history, you will see that there has always been a subsection of the population who seek to go against grain on scientific issues even when all of the evidence points in the opposite direction. No amount of arguing or reasoning with them will change their views. They are convinced that they see the light and that everyone is either deluded or has been fooled into accepting a narrative formed by powerful interests.

    What I find regrettable is that they misunderstand true contrarianism. Through history contrarianism has been hugely important. But just because contrarians have sometimes been right, it does not follow that they always are. This is one of those situations. There is a human-made element to climate change. Full stop.



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  • Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Too true OP.... In an infinite universe, how everything on one tiny little orb is supposed to remain constant, and that the actions of our planet's inhabitants have much of an effect on the climate, is beyond me... It's pretty arrogant to think so, and anyway, the over-utilisation and excess waste didn't just happen in our, or our parents' generations.. It's being going on for 2 centuries, since the industrial revolution began.. Are we supposed to revert to living in mud-huts... ?? 😏

    And that's not withstanding the fact that absent the interference of humans, would the weather, or climate cycles be any different than they are now?... It's very complicated, and 'The Science' , and the scientists can pretty much put whatever spin they want out there.. Who is the average earthling to put up a logical argument against the propaganda (whether it's true or not)...? Doesn't matter really to must of us, cos we'll all be brown bread in the next 60/70 years 😃.... Humans die.. Species die... it's always been this way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,138 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    What do we actually do though? Plenty of hand wringing over the last day about this report but not seeing any suggestions at all about what needs to be done beyond vague finger wagging at the agricultural industry and "big oil"?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,183 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Is the climate changing, yes, but it always has. Do we need to be mindful of how we proceed, yes. Does it warrant the level of hysteria in the media at present, no.

    There is a similar posting style to those that are jumping on this latest bandwagon as those in covid threads in Mar/Apr 2020, god forbid you question something in the media or what an 'expert' is telling us, you're obviously thick if you don't hang off their every word.

    I also find it amazing that its only the 'climate denying' experts that are accused of being bought!



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,357 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    "Indisputable proof"? You think the changes from grounding flights and less traffic on the roads comes about so quickly?

    You haven't a notion what you're talking about. Your own posts are indisputable proof of that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,582 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Australia are saying they are doing all they can and are not happy with the report



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,270 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    The IPCC are clearly suggesting that as a priority, methane emissions should be drastically reduced and it appears that there are some relatively easy wins here: stopping outgassing of oil wells and stopping pipeline leaks. Since methane only lasts 10 years in the atmosphere, it a win that can buy time for the harder stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,138 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    And who is going to enforce and monitor the industry on a global level to get them to do that and force them to take on the expense of finding and sealing leaks etc?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    The IPCC ultimately release a report with suggestions and mitigation proposals, its their suggestions that'll have to be taken on board. They ultimately will point the bigger at big oil and the agricultural sector seen as they know they are one of the primary causes of GHGs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,138 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The problem being they release a report, everyone makes the right noises for a few days or weeks but then we'll all just go back to our normal lives looking up cheap flights on Ryanair for next year and buying the latest iPhone etc. Industry will also make the right noises but ultimately being in it for a profit will offer little beyond tokenism. Governments have no intention of doing very much again beyond tokenism.

    Cue the cycle goes on and in another 5 years time another IPCC report will be published with even more dire warnings and we'll do the same merry dance again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,270 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Who enforces and monitors the nuclear test ban treaty?


    Well there's the network of satellites monitoring and evaluating the problem. As for who enforces it, it will likely be the great powers through economic sanctions.

    Maybe it will prove impossible politically, but it is possible. It's much more possible than cutting carbon emissions drastically in the short term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,138 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    I admire your optimism. Sanctions against the oil/gas industry? No chance.

    Australian government already coming to say they don't intend doing anything more due to this report and they are one of the biggest producers of emissions in the developed world per capita (double what we produce per capita).



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I do think there is a problem with industrial scale pollution from the biggest corporations in the world.

    However micro-controlling the actions, behaviours, habits, ability to get from A to B, of the average person is an obvious con - laughable, and the same thing is attempted from other angles ('health', 'tolerance'). The hard-faced, glassy-eyed bureaucrats lining up to oversee this 'process' strike me as repulsive.

    The same corporations responsible for most of the actual pollution will line up behind this people-control as well.

    Are there records of temperatures in the medieval era? There used to be tobacco plantations in Warwickshire so it must have been fairly warm



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,270 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I am more of an optimist than a fatalist when it comes to solving this problem.

    Yes, Australia has dismissed the report, but that's hardly a surprise. It's 30 year run of economic growth has been on the back of natural resource extraction. What will be more interesting is the other great powers response to the Australian position, it looks like carbon sanctions may be on the table as a weapon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Cilldara_2000




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,270 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Given that consumers consume what is produced for them, the only way to solve this is to go after the producers.

    As an example, when I look at my bin as it goes out, the vast majority of stuff in it I never wanted in the first place - its just packaging, and it's mostly for the convenience of the seller.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,138 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Carbon sanctions sounds like a bit more tokenism. You think China and the US are going to start imposing carbon sanctions? I think you are beyond optimistic.

    On a local level there is absolutely zero interest in Irish society in doing anything drastic. Only this week where I am from in Cork, the city council have installed 4 fake tree "air purifiers" in the city centre as some sort of greenwashing. They cost €380,000 - we could plant thousands of 3 year old actual real trees for that price. They are doing this but refuse to enforce the daily car restrictions on Patrick Street from 3-6.30pm due to not wanting to upset the car lobby. Simply enforcing that restriction would do far more for air quality than installing these stupid robot trees - but that would take effort and dedication.

    Similarly this week the council have published a Part 8 application to build a new dual carriageway down the city docks to facilitate motorised traffic expansion, which will necessitate the removal of numerous mature trees. Tokenism is the order of the day - nobody wants to take serious action.




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,301 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    This is why it’s important for people to vote for representatives who are serious about climate change and sustainable development . Your vote matters, and your voice matters.

    Politicians should not be re-elected if they are weak on these issues and we shouldn’t let climate change denial go unchallenged on any form of media. We have only a small number of election cycles to stop this from getting existential. There is no time to waste pandering to people who are completely out of touch with reality



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,138 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Indeed but we all know that the person most likely to get elected in Ireland is the fella who can sort out your granny's medical card or get the road outside your house resurfaced or helps you get the grant for the kids to go to University etc. The Green Party are likely to get wiped out again in the next election because a lot of people equate the Green's version of climate action to ordinary punters just paying more tax - nobody is going to vote for that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,270 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Carbon sanctions will effectively be trade tariffs by another (possibly more acceptable) name, and given the more protectionist nature of the world today I can't see why they wouldn't be both likely and successful.

    Also, I agree, those city trees are an expensive gimmick



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,301 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It’s probably true, but we need every party to put climate change on the agenda, not just the Green Party, and we need to challenge people repeating the shite they see on Facebook and this rubbish about greens wanting to tax us all to oblivion.

    we need our government hounding the EU to release funding to pay for the transition in a way similar to how they released zero interest finance to pay for Covid rescue packages

    there are a lot of echo chambers repeating misinformation that never hear the real story from a real person, we need to speak out and correct these when we hear them or at least ask them ‘how do you know’ or ‘are you sure?’



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,138 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    It isn't entirely rubbish. The budget in October is going to have an increase in the Carbon Tax almost certainly. How many other genuine climate action initiatives will be in the budget? Very few and any that are mooted usually require the average punter to put their hand in their own pocket. I mean anything to do with sustainability costs money and people just won't pay for something like that.

    You want to get insulation done? Great but you have to cough up the money first and then go through a convoluted applications process to get a modest portion of it back.

    Put some solar panels on your roof - sorry that's going to cost you €5k plus even after any available grants and all the various form filling and chasing you have to do.

    Something simple like a water butt? That's €50 whereas I can just turn on the tap at home for no extra charge.


    There's very little appetite from people to change when it costs them money and the only plan is to tax or charge people. We have no public transport project of any significance under construction in Ireland since the Luas Cross city opened in 2017 - 4 years ago. If our own government aren't showing a whole lot of urgency why should the average punter?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    True, based on the accurate measurement equipment 150 years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,285 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I don't know the details of what they are doing, but they had serious wildfires not long ago? Plus the size and scale (and environmental impact) of their mining operations are insane. Quick Google.

    Australia is the world's largest exporter of coal (35% of international trade), iron ore, lead, diamonds, rutile, zinc and zirconium, second largest of gold and uranium, and third largest of aluminium.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Climate change is real, unfortunately.

    Also unfortunately, virtue signallers in organisations like the Green Party make people sick and less likely to engage. It is really off-putting to a huge amount of people. Another poster made a point about the media putting forward the views of kids who don't know what they're talking about. That doesn't help either. It's like getting Johnny from the Na Piarsaigh under 15s on to preview the All Ireland final.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    So who should be put forward to talk about climate change if people who are passionate about stopping it shouldn't be?



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