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Michael D struggling with presidential workload.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,464 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Well, constitutionally right now it doesn't matter, whatever the volume sent his way, he has to read and sign off in the time frame that he's allowed.

    OK, what skills does MDH have to determine whether legislation should be sent on?

    I'm perfectly happy with a non-executive president, I'd be happy if he had staff to advise him on the constitutionality of the pieces of legislation rather than trying to do it himself, even if that meant reducing the volume of legislation he can get through in a given time frame.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,464 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I don't know, 38 years before an issue being found is pretty good going, was the president under time pressure to get this signed back in 1977 and missed the issue?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    What on earth makes you think he doesn't?

    "Many of these bills are complex and require me to undertake a detail analysis of their constitutional implications. Some may require the seeking of legal advice and others consultation with the Council of State."

    It is, however, his responsibility as the elected President to actually make those decisions. That is the role he was voted into and he can not just abdicate that to legal counsel so of course he wants to analyse them himself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    He does have staff for this purpose. I'm aware he had an advisor with a legal and academic background from UCC on staff in the Presidential office for instance. He also has his very own General Secretary advising him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    HOW DARE YOU TALK ABOUT THE PRESIDENT LIKE THAT


    MAY YOUR BARE BUTTOCKS BE THRASHED WITH NETTLES FORTHWITH.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If you are asked to do 7 projects in work between January and June, then asked to do 7 projects in work in the first week of July you are going to struggle and consider it a poor allocation of resources not matter how much you are paid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,437 ✭✭✭touts


    If this is the sort of mess a team of legal experts in their prime with months to work on it can create why does an 80 year old amateur poet think he needs to be the expert on each word of a bill before he can approve it. If this is his approach we be waiting for months to have even the smallest piece of legislation signed into law as he struggles to research the full legal implications of every word in between naps.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Because its literally his job?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭Allinall


    How does salary enable you to increase your workload?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,459 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Don't think his Secretary General is 'advising him'. His Secretary General is running the operation, managing the staff, managing the building, managing the events, managing the international relations (given that she's come from DFA). AFAIK, he does not have legal experts on staff.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Current head of Irish Council of Civil Liberties who has a legal background was on the payroll for a number of years in the President's office. No idea who stepped into the role afterwards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    The Article 26 reference power is a double edge sword

    the case must be brought within a specified time frame, and even with the best minds in the law library and court, it’s extremely hard to identify Constitutional issues when you are only dealing with hypothetical issues rather than a person appearing before the court with a specific set of facts (which the court first seeks to deal with the legislation and facts itself and then Constitutional issues) . Some Constitutional problems are not obvious or foreseeable until a year or two down the road

    If the court deems a bill as Constitutional , it’s going to be very very difficult for a member of the public to successfully challenge the act later on due to the extra protection of constitutionality it will enjoy - thus sometimes , it will be better off for a President not to go to the Supreme Court if there are question marks about whether it really is unconstitutional, let the public do it

    Point is, this takes time for the council to set up and scrutinise the bill and the Supreme Court itself has a huge case load before it (not as bad since the Court of Appeal was created)

    considering that the courts must assume that the Oireachtas does consider the constitutional issues of every bill, and as ever have seen , previous Attorney Generals claiming X is constitutional but refusing to release the letter of advice to the Oireachtas for the oppositions legal team to look at it …. Not really sure there’s wisdom in the court being so quick to defer to the Oireachtas on that point. It’s not like discussions on the Constitution are uttered much in the Dáil or Seanad sessions or at the committee, based on the transcripts and Oireachtas reports


    at the same time, action is needed to legislate expediently due to Covid , and considering the Court can’t and doesn’t interfere with the Oireachtas on everything (separation of powers) … Michael D needs to cop on . We are in serious unprecedented times. Everyone should bear this in mind the next time we are asked to vote for politicians of advanced age

    Suoerior Court Judges have mountains of cases before then to consider and write up judgments … not sure Higgins can complain as he can delegate the bills into committees amongst his legal staff.. it’s not like the Law Library are that busy to turn down a prestigious gig


    its really hard to ignore the fact that he’s had a soft 10 years, with running around to mostly pointless back splapping tea parties around the world , chalking up expenses, waffling about left wing despots and as you said, reciting “poetry” , god forbid he has to do some actual work every now and again .


    this latest statement should not have been made public , the government, if it had a backbone would look for revenge after this stunt and frustrate the rest of his tenure with regard to expenses, and what trips he can make and what speeches he can vomit out. Alas, for some strange reason he’s popular . The government is hated so they won’t say boo



  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    The time limit is specified in the Constitution itself as far as I recall



  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    Not his fault, but there wasn’t one single credible alternative at the last election. Granted, most argued that there should never have been an election due to his popularity but thanks to bould Mary Lou snd the Shinners who nominated a no body (even if she somehow was an MEP and had a famous father and did fine work at TG4) we got an election that no one wanted , even BBC questioned it



  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    Try the High Court , and the Supreme Court, especially before the establishment of the Court of Appeal



  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    Unprecedented time , requiring urgent action from the Oireachtas . there haven’t been many parliaments around the world that have dealt with Covid brilliantly either , with lots of u turns and cock ups - though the previous failure to legislate outdoor boozing to keep the pubs happy when the cops said they’d be required to take them to court and the politician’s cringe response (basically, “ah sure, it be grand, just ignore it until two weeks time) doesn’t help

    then you had the fall out with Brexit and the North and it isn’t too hard to understand that the government have had a lot on its plate . It’s not exactly like they have the strongest of majorities either , and it consists of an unnatural coalition of two political parties who have issues with the fact that their history has come to the ghastly day that they both have to share power .



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He's not complaining about his bloody workload. Can we just change the thread title for the people who clearly aren't reading the article properly?


    This is the equivalent of the govt publishing a hundred page bill and demanding a vote on it that evening - something our friends across the water are quite familiar with. It is a poor indictment of the entire process, and those MPs complaining about it in the UK are not complaining cause they have extra work to do



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tbf to MDH and im no fan of his, he has a good point here. He has had to review tonnes of legislation since the pandemic started. Previous presidents have had nothing like his volume. Some of this legislation is important too and could be here permanent in spite of the 'emergency' tag that the media is giving it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Rasher_Sausage


    So he actually reviews the legislation himself???



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,459 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    He has to decide what to do with it. It is his personal decision.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,767 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    it hasn't just been happening this year or last



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,437 ✭✭✭touts


    Well he isn't complaining that the print size is too small for an 80 year old to read. He is complaining that there are too many bills for him to examine in the time allowed. That sounds a lot like workload.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,437 ✭✭✭touts


    That certainly seems to be what he is attempting to do. Because he believes being a poet of little international reputation makes him an expert on drafting legislation. So he seems to be attempting to examine the details of the text word by word for any unexpected complications in the few days he is given to sign the bill rather than simply signing the bill based on the goals and objectives of the legislation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    It's almost like his main job is being the president, and not a poet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,437 ✭✭✭touts


    If he was being President that wouldn't be a problem. The problem is he is trying to be a legal expert scrutinizing legislation word by word rather than by the goal and ethos of the bill.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Clearly you have no idea of what the job of President is then. Because it has nothing to do with the goal and ethos of the bill - he has no authority there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    A lot of the legislation he has recently been asked to approve, has arisen as a Government afterthought, when they hastily introduced new pandemic measures, ignoring the fact that they could not be enforced, unless and until retrospective legislation was rushed through.

    That is the background to the President's concern and he is right to be concerned about such bad planning and preparation. Laws should never be rushed through the required process and there has been some very shoddy practice employed recently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,767 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,314 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Guess that all this work has interfered with his writing holidays. How could the politicians have been so inconsiderate. :)

    Regards...jmcc



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭Allinall




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