Michael D struggling with presidential workload.

touts

Is this due to the workload or because he is 80? And there is still 4 years left in his second term.

RTE news : President expresses concern over volume of legislation

http://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0729/1238070-higgins-letter-oireachtas/

Neither, he's raising the issue of rushing through a lot of complex legislation in one go. It's a Dail level issue.

CptMonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685944#Comment_117685944

Ya this is what I took it to mean. He was basically telling the dail to work better and not rush loads of legislation through

Robert McGrath

I think there’s a possibility that he’s sensitive to the recent criticism of him and wants to draw a distinction between himself and government in the eyes of the public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685957#Comment_117685957

The lad is 80 odd,i doubt he gives a balls about any critism/praise at this stage

Manach

The President has a staff that can raise issues if there are any problems with his pro-forma signing.

Deeper Blue

The presidency should be scrapped.

He does feck all for 10 years and as soon as he's asked to do a bit of work he has a moan to the media.

Bet he's not complaining about his wages and the various junkets he's been on since 2011, all funded by the taxpayer of course.

lawred2

It's quite clear he's telling the dail to quit rushing legislation through

Ger Roe

The pandemic has shown that this government is particularly inept at planning legislation. They have announced several pandemic related measures before considering the legal implications and then had to catch up late with hastily moved bills, sometimes debated quickly and late into the night, before holiday deadlines. The president is right to fire a shot across their bows and ask for some control and consideration.

Government ministers have blundered through solo run announcements, ignoring questions about possible legal issues, only to have to go back and pass legislation to give any hope of implementation. The Minister for justice should have been fired for her lack of legal understanding when she introduced relaxation measures that effectively instructed the Gardai to ignore state law and 'use their discretion' with regard to outdoor drinking and gathering.

Nod and wink legislation isn't worth the paper it literally isn't printed on.

Dempo1

I'm fairness MDH raises a fair point albeit very diplomatically put. There has been quite a lot of legislation pushed through in a very short space of time. I would argue however, he had the option of calling a council of state or referring legislation to the supreme Court for consideration, he choose neither and that begs some questions given the argument he raises, in essence was he too rushed to fully scrutinise the legislation?

Of course there are those who believe he's there just to rubber stamp government wishes, I tend to disagree and would have concerns not enough scrutiny has been put into alot of legislation recently that even the most objective observer would have to say, was rushed through the Dail, I get urgency, but not sloppyness.

For the record, if less time was spent reciting poetry and talking nonsense, MDH might have more time on his hands, the Aras has turned into an extension of the Abbey Theatre FFS

Dempo1

While I'm at it 😂😂

https://youtu.be/u10CYoivd5c

Bass Reeves

The president must have a belief that a measure is unconstitutional before he referred it to the Supreme Court. It much the same with calling a council of state he must have reasons why he is unhappy with the legislation.

To do that he must read through the legislation bill and see issues he may feel are in need on consideration. His problem is that he has 7 days to review legislation before he signs it. If 2-3 bills need to be considered in a timeframe of 7-10 days it requires a lot if reading and re-reading if a bill. As well he may require a legal opinion from a trusted legal advisor before he considers the necessity of calling a CoS to consider referring a bill to the SC.

It not just a matter of referring a bill to the SC because he feels he has not time to analyse it

Another reason not to send a bill to the SC is that if the SC finds it constitutional the constitutionality of any part of that bill can never again be challenged.

Tony H

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686014#Comment_117686014

I needed a good laugh , thanks for that

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686034#Comment_117686034

Your welcome, I couldn't resist 😂😂😂

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686029#Comment_117686029

I do agree completely, but is the president's subtle argument too much legislation being landed on his desk, my only concern with this argument would be by default he's not actually being given enough time to fully scrutinise and therefore and perhaps maybe he's actually unable to determine if a piece of legislation is infact constitutional? There's been alot of cases brought before the SC for less tangible arguments, again, I'm just suggesting possible issues with legislation rushed and signed into law without thorough scrutiny.

astrofool

He's a glorified rubber stamper who's finally having to do a little bit of work for a good salary and has staff on hand to help with everything, the Dáil's job isn't to make life easy for the president, it's to pass legislation, given the nature of politics, there will be peaks and troughs, a good president would have planned for that.

If there's a constitutional issue, call it, otherwise put in a few late nights and get the work done. Biden, at a similar age, doesn't seem to have any issues in both getting the bills, orders and memos in place and then reading what's passed to him and getting them signed.

It's almost like when you get elected to a 7-year term at the age of 70, and promise to serve only one term because it would be ludicrous to have someone working full-time into their 80s, you should really not renege on that promise.

A citizen has to have attained their 35th year before being eligible as president. Perhaps we need to think of an upper age limit, with Presidents retiring at the end of their 8th decade.

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686594#Comment_117686594

If people had an issue with him deciding to go for a second term they could have voted for someone else though. He got over 800,000 first preference votes and won on the first count so clearly people accepted his change of heart.

expectationlost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685944#Comment_117685944

its government level issue

bucketybuck

You'd need to be right thick to think that Higgins problem here is that he feels too overworked.

Its clear as day that he is making a point to the government about what they are doing.

My only problem is that he isn't being strong enough, he is being far too diplomatic.

scheister

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058201619/michael-d-struggling-with-presidential-workload

I am in the presidents corner here. If I recall he was sent 9 bills for signing in the Jan-June period and 9 in July alone including 7 in one day. I am not sure there is any job out there where the work load is that spread out and can be suddenly that intense. 7 Bills in one day means he has a day to review and decide on each bill, assuming he sleeps 8 hours a day and take 2 hours a day for meals means you are down to 14 hours to read, understand, confer with others and decide on each bill and that assumes that there is nothing else on his plate.

It is always an issue with the Dail that legislation is rushed towards Holiday time and better planning is needed on this point.

joseywhales

I don't get it. Raise a valid issue about inconsistent workflow, response is ageist accusations of incompetence. I hope none of you manage people.

jmcc

So the RTE-installed Champagne socialist who claimed that he'd only serve one term found out that he has to work and has a bit of a hissy fit? :) Welcome to the real world.

Regards...jmcc

magicbastarder

i'm kinda bemused that people have such little care for the oversight of irish legislation, that when someone has 7 bills to scrutinise in seven days before signing them into law, that it's that person's fault for having that much legislation to read and understand.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686992#Comment_117686992

He was the one assuring all the other candidates in the debates that he knew what the presidency was about and what it entailed. He can hardly complain that this was unexpected.

Regards...jmcc

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685985#Comment_117685985

When did he moan to the media?

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686944#Comment_117686944

champagne socialist ? lol

pointlessly commenting on things you dont understand again regards jmcc ?

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687064#Comment_117687064

It's not only unexpected, it is unprecedented and a direct result of bad planning on the Government's part. Much of the recently rushed legislation has been caused by rash decisions being taken and implemented by Government, only to find out later that they actually required legislative input.

It is only right that the President raises a warning flag when he sees a problem arising with the political process... that is literally his job.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687201#Comment_117687201

He took the job. He should do it rather than whine about the workload.

Regards...jmcc

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687214#Comment_117687214

You don’t appear to understand.

he didn’t complain about his own workload.

rgds

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687214#Comment_117687214

Your are missing the point. He is not complaining about the workload. He is complaining about the cack handed way legislation is being passed at the moment. The legal process requires and demands more thought than the Government has been giving it in recent times. That is risky and bad practice.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687233#Comment_117687233

Too much legislation being forwarded? Not enough time to consider it all? He's being paid to do a job. He should do it.

Regards...jmcc

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687255#Comment_117687255

When did he not do his job?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686667#Comment_117686667

The problem is he had to be diplomatic. He is very limited in his remit in this regard.

I dare anyone giving out here to read through the nine pieces of legislation in one day and have them all rubber stamped within a week. Just the usual cohorts who don’t actually understand the importance of the office.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687255#Comment_117687255

He is doing his job but rushing through legislation is the issue. It's also drastically changed during his presidency so he's highlighting it.

The Mighty Quinn

Not a fan MDH at all, I just don't like the man to be honest, but, he's 100% right to fire a shot in this regard. It's ludicrous that somebody could digest that much legal work in such a short time frame.

listermint

Idiots complaining about the presidency being a rubber stamp whilst simultaneously complaining someone takes the presidency seriously.

It's actually bloody well hilarious how ironic it is and the level of cognitive dissonance you have to achieve to hold these views.

Relax brah

He’s not struggling with workload.

He’s questioning the volume of legislative change being put forward. These things take time and it feels like this government are moving a lot of mountains, he’s right to be concerned.

It’s very definitely a diplomatically put statement that the government has been passing very rushed legislation in copious amounts.

I doubt Michael D is a rubber stamping service. There’ll be scrutiny of legislation and analysis going on. If he had concerns, I think you’d be looking at a conferring with the council of state and possibly referring to the Supreme Court.

If anything the statement sounds like he takes the role very seriously.

Going back to Mary Robinson and McAleese, I think the presidency has been very active. Prior to that, some of the presidents were barely noticed.

Despite his age, I can’t really see Michael D being anything other than active.

That statement was very definitely a subtle reminder that the presidency isn’t to be taken for granted.

BrianD3

Very unusual for him to make a public statement like that, things must be bad. I suspect that what is happening here is (based on my experience in the public service) that government and possibly the CS are

-putting issues on the long finger

-operating in a reactive and shambolic manner

-panicking and rushing things and looking to make them someone else's problem

Similar to a rubbish boss who is asked for a complex report months ago but only passes it on to one of his staff on a Friday afternoon of a bank holiday weekend and it needs to be done NOW and must be PERFECT.

PukkaStukka

I absolutely do feel for the president and am not dismissing his concerns in any way. But there are many out there also struggling immensley with ridiculous workloads during this pandemic. The president is not alone in this regard.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685995#Comment_117685995

Legislation can only and should only be referred to the Supreme Court if its constitutionality is in question. This idea that the President should just start referring legislation for no reason other than some people dont like the legislation is nonsense and even in some cases potentially dangerous because it blocks further possible legal challenge

alchemist33

Somebody needs to change the thread title because it seems to be confusing an awful lot of people

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689993#Comment_117689993

He isnt complaining about his workload and to suggest he is, is dismissing his concerns.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117690016#Comment_117690016

It suits an agenda though

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117690001#Comment_117690001

This is infact NOT what I said, I raised the ligitimate concern that if the President was in essence Rushed, Under pressure etc, there's a strong possibility legislation he's signing into law has not infact been properly Scrutinised. He states quite clearing large voumnes of legislation which we already know was rushed through the Dail, landed on his Desk to be dealt with.

One would assume, Hope he carefully reads the legislation but by default and on his own admission, he was put under pressure. I'm only suggesting, given these circumstances there is, no matter how small, a possibility the legislation is not being fully scrutinised before be signed into law.

I've made no reference to liking or disliking any of the legislation forwarded to him albeit I would have to say, it was certainly rushed, no one is denying that.

HerrKapitan

He said he had not enough time to properly study the legislations thoroughly.

Did he sign all legislation? And if he had not enough time to study them why did he sign?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117690062#Comment_117690062

Pretty sure it's a combo of deadlines and refusing to sign means he would have to constitutionally challenge. If he did, it wouldn't be possible to challenge it again.

Tork

Never mind.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117690062#Comment_117690062

This is a question I'd like answered also 🤔

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117690054#Comment_117690054

Surely the answer then is to take this power away from the president and put it in the hands of those qualified to read legislation for constitutionality (that way there can be a team of people available). I don't think winning a popularity contest would qualify someone for this job (would Dana have been qualified or Sean Gallagher?).

They can still ask for a presidential rubber stamp, but someone qualified to do so will effectively have made the final decision.