Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

He doesn't matter what Frost said, remember he was saying this was a great deal only a few months ago.

What are the grounds for triggering A16? And do you think, given they have admitted to not understanding the deal they signed, that they actually understand what triggering A16 actually means?

It has already been pointed out several times that triggering Art 16 won't fix the prob and is only designed as a temporary measure. Posturing and threatening to trigger is bluster and bullshit therefore that you seem to have bought into.

It is the ultimate jumping up and down on the sidelines threatening to shoot yourself more designed for the homegrown misinformed than it is a credible threat, we in the EU is going to worry about.

what is not working that is fault of the EU, you talk about belives , but what are the facts that dont work and how do you deal with them realistically, given that this is obviously not an easy situation. but the fact remains the eu did not create this issue.

As to which is more important, why should I have to choose? Both are important and both are compatible.

As to what the EU should do if the UK triggers Art 16, a necessary preliminary to any discussion is to ask if you have read Article 16?

On edit:

Evidently you haven't read Article 16. If you had, you would know that it doesn't give the UK (or the EU) any right to do anything on the basis of "believing that the protocol isn't working".

Have a read of Article 1=6 and then come back and reframe your question to state why you think the UK would be entitled to trigger it, and what you think "triggering it" would involve. What exactly would the UK do that would amount to "triggering Art 16"?

If the UK want to ditch the protocol then what is the alternative?

It appears, from the complete lack of detail, that they are back to being in the SM for all the benefits but none of the obligations. That was a non runner from Day 1.

So, if a land border is ruled out, which they are at pains to say it is, only alternative left is the original all UK backstop. Until such time as alternative technologies provide a solution.

There really are very simple solutions to al of this, already explained many times to the UK. That they don't like those solutions is not relevant. That is the cards they have dealt themselves.

I agree with the post above, Art 16 is the new No Deal threat.

Have you read any of the Protocol? Who told you that its purpose was to "maintain the status quo"?

The NIP was specifically made to preserve the GFA and keep the common all island economy "All island and in the SM".

The EU and Ireland couldn't care less about extra costs at an English supermarket chain.

The rather small UK can follow - ALL - the rules of the EU market or get lost. Wein the 🇪🇺 EU is not missing much.

Lars :)

PS! Don't for a minute believe the EU will hit on the island of Ireland. The EU will use peaceful means much longer than your patience.

But when it acts, the EU can stop half the English export - and fairly fast eliminate the GBP.

UK products are not "effectively frozen out of the NI market" - or at least not because of "excessive red tape". But the complication of supplying certain products to NI - such as chilled meats - was envisages, and clear, easy-to-understand rules put in place. The UK government helped draft those rules, is currently pretending they never knew anything about them, and leaving individual import-exporters to figure out which ones they want and/or need to comply with.

And, by the way, those very same "chilled meat" rules apply to imports into GB. I cannot bring them into GB from France in my campervan fridge because of the exact same regulations, copied by the UK government from the EU rule book and pasted into UK legislation.

Except, of course, I can bring any old crap into GB, because the rules on chilled meat imports are not being enforced. So if I can just get my slightly dodgy horse-meat across the channel, Johnson and Frost think I should be able to label it as Best of British and send it, unchecked, to NI on the back of a promise that I've done everything by the book and cross-my-heart-and-hope-noone-dies never in a million years thought someone in Dundalk would buy it from that shop in Newry.

Learning how to use copy/paste it seems. Unfortunately they haven't heard of Find/Replace yet:

UK forced to reopen sensitive Ukraine trade pact after errors in text | The Independent

The UK government knew full well what they were signing up to. Full well. I've had enough of their deceit and lies.

I'm beginning to think myself that they actually had no idea whatsoever.

To sign up to something with the intention of not honouring it would actually require effort and forethought.

Johnson & Co just want a quick win and then move onto getting the next big win in the bag with the minimum of effort required.

They are also prioritising/ favouring the unionists in NI. The majority in NI seem to be fine with the protocol (in addition to the majority having been against Brexit in the first place).

This stuff about protecting soldiers who killed innocents in NI is also disgraceful, and couldn't have been brought forward at a worse time. Again, this is something the unionists want to see.

Unionists are always on the wrong tack though. Brexit was bad for the union, and so it was counter productive for them to support it, and indeed prop up the Tory government. Now that we have the protocol, they should support it as it effectively keeps the union jack over their heads. If the protocol is brought down, all bets are off, and a United Ireland may well be hastenened.

I don’t think unionists are in favour of the British government proposals on the troubles legacy due to the statute of limitations applying to IRA murders as well.

As Bertie Ahern said at the Brexit hearing committee chaired by Mr Benn , “the EU are well prepared and they have some fairly sharp cookies working for them”

Over 2000 medicines face withdrawl because of the UK failure to sign up to aligned regulations

As stated many times, the protocol is not the problem, it is the least worst answer to the awful problem that Brexit created.

There already was a solution put forward, rejected by Johnson, which would do away with all of these issues, the Backstop.

Yes, but the point is that it is not Protocol that is the probem.

And it isn't the EU that needs to take the blame. THey gave the UK a grace period, the UK then extended it, and then they both agreed to extend it further.

The UK simply want another, yet another exemption. 'I know we all knew this could be a problem, but now that it is we are buggered if we are actually going to do anything about it and instead will simply blame the EU'.

It is yet another consequence of the Brexit that Johnson and the government, and ultimatley the voters, wanted.