Wifi mesh systems

alec76 · 29-06-2021 11:14am

I've Netgear ORBI RBK53 system ( pretty old now) , there is no separate 5ghz Vs 2.4ghz ssids as well ( from the box, anyway). . Never had ANY issues with my SMART PLUGS, vacuum robots etc .
I don't think that would be an issue with any other modern Mesh system with single ssid.

RangeR · 29-06-2021 12:14pm

alec76 wrote: »

Unless you could connect all 3 DECO x20 units with Ethernet backhaul , don’t bother, you won’t see speeds above 200-280 mbps from the APs.

I would have thought so to, until I saw it in action. On my Google WIFI, 3 point wifi backhaul meshed network [only the Google router is hardwired], I get ...

*LAN not WAN Speed test*

Android OnePlus 7 Pro : 2 meters line of sight to AP : 378Mbps
Amazon Firestick : 2 meters line of sight to second GM : 511Mbps
Another Android Phone : Not sure where it is in the house so must be >=4 meters from nearest AP through at least one stud partition : 344Mbps

Most other devices [28 in total] fall below 200Mbps but, at lease in my case, the bottleneck seems to be the actual client device, not the mesh with WIFI backhaul. I never thought it could be so fast and am, quite frankly, amazed at the speed.

RangeR · 29-06-2021 12:32pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

Been toying with grabbing the google wifi router and point while they are on sale. House is a standard enough three bed semi-d, wifi coverage is grand for the most part but the sun room and back garden are pretty patchy. Would be nice to have full 5Ghz signal out there too.

Just wondering before I decide to pull the trigger or not, has anyone had any issues getting devices connected to them that are reliant on 2.4Ghz wifi?

I know from recent experience of eir getting rid of the separate 5Ghz band on my router that my smart plugs, robovac and the data logger for the solar panels wouldn't connect when they were relying on band steering to pick the right band so I don't want to drop money on the mesh system if these devices won't work with it.

Also I presume there's no issue using these with eir's router?

Cheers!

I would highly recommend Google WIFI [haven't tried Nest Wifi] once you understand the limitations. As I said earlier...

1. Can't turn the router off. Well you can, but you lose your mesh and just have separate APs that all need to be hardwired back to the router.
2. No web interface. I have a PITA configuring the mesh from my mobile phone while sitting at my computer.
3. If the Google Home app isn't working, you aren't able to manage your network, Yes, this happened to me a few times.
4. Can only configure one SSID. Yes you can have an extra guest SSID. I'd like to have 3 or 4 SSID's to segregate my devices.
5. It has basic port forwarding, dhcp reservations etc but I'd also like to block internet connection to some devices [CCTV] and set up vLans per SSID / LAN.
6. Has no router based VPN client or server option.

If none of these matter to you now or in the near to mid future, absolutely, go Google/Nest WIFI. Hands down does what it does very well and very simple to manage. For me, having to manage my network through their app is troublesome. They used to have a dedicated app but over the past year or so, migrated the functionality into the Google Home app. It wasn't a seamless transition. Now everything has to be done in the Home app which can be flaky and doesn't have all of the options that the dedicated app has.
You are also at the behest of Google. If their app fails for any amount of time, you CANNOT manage your network, open a port, add an ip reservation etc. This happened to me once or twice over the past few years. While rare, I absolutely needed to config my network right then but couldn't. That's why I'm getting rid of it. I'd much prefer a local web gui.

I have 3 GW points. All linked together over wifi not wired. The speed is unbelievably amazing, in the literal sense. I can't believe it goes that fast with no wired backhaul.

There is also no way that I've found creating a 2.4 and 5 separate SSID's. They both have to be named the same but this isn't a problem for me, it's just that you mentioned it.

So, I'm going to do something new and stay away from my advice. Alec76 and maybe one other recently, put the idea into my head. After a bit of research on WIFI6, I'm going to try set up a differenty WIFI Mesh. I'm looking to base it on ASUS range of routers. I'm going to splurge on the base router and then add on a either two smaller ASUS routers or two of their Mesh products and see how it goes. Might take me a month or two as I need to research the best bang for buck products that they have, and also put some money aside for it. I'll report back when I get it done.

alec76 · 29-06-2021 2:08pm

RangeR wrote: »

I would have thought so to, until I saw it in action. On my Google WIFI, 3 point wifi backhaul meshed network [only the Google router is hardwired], I get ...

What difference it makes what could u see with Google WIFI?
DECO X20 are extremely weak WIFI performer , no compare to Google WiFi, don't mind NEST, plenty tests around the web , as soon its creates 2 backhaul links for 2 other points there is barely nothing left for wifi clients itself.
Here the comparison X60 Vs X90

https://youtu.be/eKcqBczT9Q4
It is very pity , most of the yanks don't have a decent broadband thought. All these tests of WIFI6 routers while ythey only have 400/500 Mbps WiFi quite pathetic.

They both useless for wireless backhaul too BTW
Couldn't deliver 500mbps to all units .
my old NETGEAR ORBI RBK53 do better job definitely.

RangeR · 29-06-2021 2:15pm

alec76 wrote: »

What difference it makes what could u see with Google WIFI?

Sorry, not understanding what you're asking here.

RangeR · 29-06-2021 2:54pm

alec76 wrote: »

What difference it makes what could u see with Google WIFI?
DECO X20 are extremely weak WIFI performer , no compare to Google WiFi, don't mind NEST, plenty tests around the web , as soon its creates 2 backhaul links for 2 other points there is barely nothing left for wifi clients itself.
Here the comparison X60 Vs X90

https://youtu.be/eKcqBczT9Q4
It is very pity , most of the yanks don't have a decent broadband thought. All these tests of WIFI6 routers while ythey only have 400/500 Mbps WiFi quite pathetic.

They both useless for wireless backhaul too BTW
Couldn't deliver 500mbps to all units .
my old NETGEAR ORBI RBK53 do better job definitely.

Unless you are doing a lot of LAN based, time sensitive, file copying or multiple 4k+ media streaming, you don't need 500mbps on the wifi LAN. It would be nice but not a requirement. Actually, I stream at max, 4 x 4k streams [between Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, Plex] simultaneously, as well as a handful of other devices watching YouTube, all on Google WIFI wLAN [again, no ethernet backhaul] around the house without effecting anything in the home office with no perceived degradation on the WIFI, no buffering on any device.

Not sure why you are saying that the X90 is pathetic with wifi backhaul. The link you posted did his speed tests over the internet, leaving his internet connection as a bottleneck. I'm positive if he did local wLan speed tests, he would have gotten much better speeds within 10-15 meters of an AP. His speeds did show a huge drop off at distance of 12 meters. Now, a few things about that. He's not testing a mesh. He is testing a speedtest from his mobile to one of the DECO's. If you are going any more than 10 meters, he should have dropped a second DECO for a real world test. That's what a mesh is for, to extend your wLAN as if it was one big wLAN. I would hazzard a guess, if he placed his 2 DECO's [especially the X90] 10 to 20 meters apart, then went another 5 to 10 meters with his phone, he would get near full speed test.

You don't test a mesh by putting each mesh point at max distance. You place them where they can talk to each other without issue. As far as my testing is concerned, that's how to get maximum performance from your Mesh, regardless of manufacturer. Obviously with ethernet backhaul, you don't need a huge wifi overlap and can space them out more, but the process is the same.

Also, the X90 is a tri-band device so it uses a full separate 5Ghz channel for backhaul, leaving your devices on the other 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz. Inter AP communication doesn't take away any speed from your clients.

Mc Love · 29-06-2021 3:47pm

I've a fritz box and the speed from it is half of what the office google wifi has. It as others have said quite remarkable the speed it provides

alec76 · 29-06-2021 7:57pm

RangeR wrote: »

Not sure why you are saying that the X90 is pathetic with wifi backhaul.
*******
Also, the X90 is a tri-band device so it uses a full separate 5Ghz channel for backhaul, leaving your devices on the other 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz. Inter AP communication doesn't take away any speed from your clients.

For this particular reason.
Results are very poor for TriBand System
This fellow previously had very same test with ORBI , Eero , ASUS and other TriBand systems, they all were placed at the same location/distance. Same phones ( iPhone 12 for WIFI 6 , Pixel 5 for WiFi5 ) and yet , managed to hit his Max Speeds (around 500 mbps from second AP).

And how
X60 did with the same scenario? ( 5:16 time stamp on YouTube video)
293 mbps for Pixel 5
310 mbps IPhone 12 ( WiFi 6)

X90 ( 5:30 YouTube)
298 Pixel 5
395 iPhone 12
I only could guess how badly they’ll score with 3 units, apparently they couldn’t handle wireless backhaul properly, even with dedicated backhaul Band

What I see is X90 definitely overpriced ,poorly designed, underperforming system , total waste of money .

I have ORBI mesh with 4 units , Ethernet backhaul ( 1 rbr50, 2 rbs50 , 1 rbs20 )
Rbk53 has dedicated 4x4 MIMO backhaul, which is enough to create gigabit wireless link between 2 APs , but if you have 4 units you must create 3 backhaul links and share ,so you’ll never have gigabit at every AP then. So I went for Ethernet .
It is old system , but reliable ,
every AP hitting up to 550 -610 mbps with Google Pixel 3a
and Up to 650 mbps with IPad Pro M1 , 3-4 meters away ( it is WiFi 5 speeds of course)
I wouldn’t recommend Orbi for everyone , it isn’t really plug n play , some IT/PRO users could find WUI quite poor , as for the rest , use TELNET if advanced settings required .

Mickeroo · 29-06-2021 9:33pm

alec76 wrote: »

Don't do this mistake.
Only NEST WiFi routers are worth buying IMO , stay away from Google WIFI router which is first generation.
Instead of buying
Nest WiFi router and Nest WiFi point go for 2 NEST WIFI ROUTERS.( second router could work as a point and has 2 Ethernet ports).
ps. Why wouldn't you go for EIR Smart WIFI altogether?
Cheapest option if your current Eir's router is F3000.

Sorry that was a typo, it was indeed the nest WiFi I am thinking of going for.

Hadn't considered the eir one, it looks good but I might not be with eir this time next year if you get me, I'm pretty invested in Google eco system with nest thermostats and Google home speakers all over the place so the nest WiFi appeals to me on that level too.

Thanks for the replies everyone, good info there

Clareman · 29-06-2021 9:38pm

I went down the Google rabbit hole and have the Nest system, I don't know how else to put it except it just works, nothing else to say, it works, does all the updates, bandwidth management, etc. etc. I am yet to experience any issues, I would say the longest part of the install for it was actually walking around to install the points

05-07-2021 6:07pm

Never needed one of these until now but more space and crap modem means I do now. It’s probably been covered but to save reading 1400 posts, is Nest Wi-Fi worth the premium over Google Wi-Fi for a situation where you’re only getting ~15Mb/s anyway and you already have a load of Home minis? Thanks.

Sheep Shagger · 05-07-2021 6:09pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Never needed one of these until now but more space and crap modem means I do now. It’s probably been covered but to save reading 1400 posts, is Nest Wi-Fi worth the premium over Google Wi-Fi for a situation where you’re only getting ~15Mb/s anyway and you already have a load of Home minis? Thanks.

Whilst a bit pricey I'd have to say yes for Nest WiFi - we have loads of smart stuff within the Google eco system.

05-07-2021 6:12pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Whilst a bit pricey I'd have to say yes for Nest WiFi - we have loads of smart stuff within the Google eco system.

I’ve a good few bits myself and the doorbell is next on the list too. Is there something else I’m missing with the gen 2 vs the gen 1 apart from speed and each unit being a home speaker?

Sheep Shagger · 05-07-2021 6:17pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I’ve a good few bits myself and the doorbell is next on the list too. Is there something else I’m missing with the gen 2 vs the gen 1 apart from speed and each unit being a home speaker?

That's pretty much it, we have 2 originals and for the back room (pushing WiFi to the back garden) on the gen 2s.

They're simple to set up and sit nicely in the home app, we've the doorbell, 2 hubs, a hub max and a good few homes and minis scattered around the house along with hue bulbs and smart sockets and sensors. A bit of an addiction.

New house came with a climote heating system, will replace that with a Nest thermostat soon when I see a deal.

Clareman · 05-07-2021 6:53pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Never needed one of these until now but more space and crap modem means I do now. It’s probably been covered but to save reading 1400 posts, is Nest Wi-Fi worth the premium over Google Wi-Fi for a situation where you’re only getting ~15Mb/s anyway and you already have a load of Home minis? Thanks.

I'd say yes but that's because the Nest is newer and will probably stay in software support for longer.

eddiem74 · 06-07-2021 8:23pm

So replaced my F2000 that was bridged to an Asus router with an F3000 and 2 Eir Mesh devices to try and address some dead spots.

After an initial settling period Device connectivity issues were resolved.

Some issues I am seeing.

1) When I look at the devices connected when logged into the admin page of the router there appears to not always be devices connected to a mesh device even if the device is in the same room. Sometimes no devices show connected as if that node is not being used. Mesh is using WiFi connectivity to F3000 although were setup via ethernet.

2) When I try to have a WhatsApp group call now it does not work, just times out and does not connect. If I try a 1to1 call that works fine. Also tried another phone and same issue so would appear not device dependent.

Irish Gunner · 17-08-2021 9:44am

Looking for a basic mesh for the parents

They are with Virgin and have the standard media hub with them and wifi ok around the house . However they have Desktop in the attic and its weak and tried the plugs and not great. Don't want to go overkill just something that they can connect and decent speeds etc just for browsing mainly

Also with mesh do you need to bridge virgin router or is it just as easy as plug and play or is it worth it?

Cheers

loyatemu · 17-08-2021 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765474#Comment_117765474

I just have it (TPLink Deco Mesh) plugged into the Virgin hub with the WiFi on the hub turned off, no bridging or anything.

Others will say you need to bridge the modem to avoid double-NAT problems, but I haven't encountered any issues, assuming your parents aren't doing anything techy they should be fine.

Irish Gunner · 17-08-2021 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765517#Comment_117765517

Thanks

One thing I forgot to mention is that I need good few ports on the mesh. They have android box and also virgin media player pligged in for Netflix so need a few ports

Saw some in the bricks and mortar stores like https://www.did.ie/tp-link-deco-e4-wi-fi-system-pack-of-2-white-decoe42pack-decoe42pack-prd but seems only 2 ports on this

I know I can add but any mesh systems with more than 2 ports?

I actually have a TP Link 5 port Gigabit desktop switch so I can use this and take it speed should remain the same

loyatemu · 17-08-2021 2:28pm

if you don't bridge it, you can continue to use the ports on the VM hub. You need one for the main mesh unit, so would have 3 remaining, plus any that are available on the mesh unit (depending on the model you go for).

dam099 · 17-08-2021 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765692#Comment_117765692

Don't get the E4, ports are only 100Mpbs, get either S4 or M4 which cost only slightly more and have gigabit ports.

Irish Gunner · 17-08-2021 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767126#Comment_117767126

I have the TP Link TL-SG105S that I was going to use for my own

how can you tell re E4 S4 or M4 ???

Sonics2k · 17-08-2021 4:37pm

I'm sorry I just felt like this image was so suitable for this thread.

dam099 · 17-08-2021 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767746#Comment_117767746

If you are plugging the switch (or any other ethernet device) into either of the Deco units would still be a potential bottleneck or if you want to use Ethernet backhaul instead of WiFi backhaul for the satellite unit. Also despite being rated for AC1200 WiFi you will never get that on the E4 as one of the ports is going to be your WAN input.

https://www.tp-link.com/uk/home-networking/deco/deco-e4/#specifications

https://www.tp-link.com/uk/home-networking/deco/deco-s4/#specifications

Irish Gunner · 18-08-2021 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767863#Comment_117767863

Ok but technical and over my head in a Dummies kind of guide what do you mean so I can consider my options

Thanks

dam099 · 18-08-2021 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770481#Comment_117770481

You will never get a speed over 100Mbps from any device connected to an E4. With an M4 or S4 you can get up to 1Gbps (depending on your internet connection).

Irish Gunner · 18-08-2021 11:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770506#Comment_117770506

Thanks

ok what a waste getting this so what do you suggest I get in order to get better speeds?

garo · 18-08-2021 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770655#Comment_117770655

He answered that question already.

Irish Gunner · 18-08-2021 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771574#Comment_117771574

Not talking about the Mesh more of the Desktop switch so if I do go down the route of hard wire on existing virgin router would this work but that is probably for another forum

Cyrus · 18-08-2021 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767037#Comment_117767037

isnt that a massive internet security nono?

Wifi mesh systems

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