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Thoughts on court order wording

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24

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lazygal wrote: »
    I'm comparing the money you're paying to what it would cost you if you were the primary care giver and needed to pay someone to cover the hours you work.
    It would cost you a lot more than €240 a week.

    I asked a question on wording and people went off on their own agenda on it, slating me as a father not wanting to spend time with my kids when in fact I spend a lot of time with them. As I say joint custody is not an option afforded to fathers when it should be


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    #33
    Housefree
    Registered Users Posts: 673 ✭✭✭Housefree


    For OP play dirty, bring her back to court for lower maintenance, cut payments off if she doesn't stay with the agreement, keep going back to court for joint custody. If she's not playing ball go on the offensive


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    #34
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭1874


    lazygal wrote: »
    The primary caregiver has the children more. Paying €240 a week for that level of care is cheap. You couldn't get a child minder for that rate so I'm not sure why anyone feels hard done by having to pay that for their children.


    You cant say that at all, the other person works part time, that could be near non existant or almost fulltime? you dont know what the other persons hours or wages are, but it appears clear to me the guy here is carrying the full financial burden and has limited options themself.

    bubblypop wrote: »
    But you are seeing your time with your children as 'her downtime/time off'
    It's your time with your children.

    And you have 12 weekends when you don't have them at all?


    But it is her downtime/time off, otherwise what is she doing with time she is not minding the kids, this chap has stated and I think very reasonably, that he thinks they should both use their time not spent with the kids as some or all of their personal time, that is a very sensible and more efficient use of both their times overall. What it sounds like is the other person wants their cake and eat it, they want their scheduled/allocated/agreed off time plus personal time off AND people are coming on here replying to the OP that he is being unreasonable??? wtf things are really skewed, need to shift to a more Scandinavian model because ours is disproportionate/and seems to let one side think they have disproportionate entitlement (which they do).

    lazygal wrote: »
    We have had our kids every weekend since the third was born. When he was 1.5 years and maybe ready for a sleepover covid kicked off.
    Most people I know don't have downtime when they have small kids. Life just doesn't work that way. It's always full on.
    I work shifts so my husband has to do all bedtimes and I do all the school runs. We're like ships passing most of the time.


    But you're married and in a relationship?? so how is that comparable?

    You are sharing the load with your spouse it seems, and obviously down time can be together with the kids, because you are sharing tasks and even if a person needs time off/out, the other person is there and it can be arranged more easily, your situation is NOT comparable.


    lazygal wrote: »
    I'm comparing the money you're paying to what it would cost you if you were the primary care giver and needed to pay someone to cover the hours you work.
    It would cost you a lot more than €240 a week.


    It shouldn't come down to money if the primary caregiver is only working parttime, they shouldnt be paid as a parent to mind their own kids, it should be for costs and to cover that, you dont get paid as a parent, you should know that.


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Here is a male based opinion. My oldest is 7 and it never even entered my mind that I would go for a weeks holidays without him or his sister. That is the best part of holidays for us that we get to spend time together as a family without distractions of their friends and activities. Your battle on the other hand (and I hope that we have taken you up wrong here) seems to be a battle as to who can spend less time with their children so you can enjoy hols from being a parent. That is why the other poster said 'poor kids' I would guess.
    Anyway as I said I hope we have taken you up wrong but you need to chat with your solicitor on this.

    I will still bring my kids on holidays, the point was my annual leave which I am using half to take my kids where the mother does what she wants and half where I do what I want. My solicitor in court said that is the norm, yet I am getting slated for it here,


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    #36
    Foweva Awone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Foweva Awone


    As an alternative point of view, I'm a mother who's in a similar situation to you, in that the other parent has Primary Care and Control, and I have much less time with my son.

    It's years since we've been in court - it's all very amicable these days - but when we were in and out of court, I was always fighting for more time with my son, not less. Can't imagine it often happens the other way around. :-/

    You talk about having more downtime - the way I see it, the time I spend with my son when I'm not working IS my downtime. There's literally nothing else I'd rather do ... I plan all my holidays around time with him.

    It might help if you view this unexpected additional time with your children as a bonus, not as a problem. Plenty of separated fathers (and mothers) out there who have to fight tooth-and-nail for ANY time with their kids, who would kill to have your "problem".


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    #37
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Housefree wrote: »
    For OP play dirty, bring her back to court for lower maintenance, cut payments off if she doesn't stay with the agreement, keep going back to court for joint custody. If she's not playing ball go on the offensive

    And how will this affect the children? No food or clothes because their dad is having a fight with their mother?


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'm not, I'm seeing it as 2 different things. I give all my attention to my kids at the weekends and don't look at it as a chore

    You shouldn't be looking at it as two different things.
    It's your opportunity to spend time with your kids. End of.
    Doesn't matter what anyone is it isn't doing at those times. That's your parent -child time.
    You don't see them all week and have 12 weekends a year where you don't see them and I think, maybe another week or two during the year?
    Just enjoy your time with them, they'll grow up quick enough and they'll remember their parents arguing about who has to take them and who wants a break from them.


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    #39
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,331 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I asked a question on wording and people went off on their own agenda on it, slating me as a father not wanting to spend time with my kids when in fact I spend a lot of time with them. As I say joint custody is not an option afforded to fathers when it should be

    Well take the opportunity then. Let her have as many solo weeks holidays as she wants and then you get to spend more and more time with your boys. Is that not a win for you?


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    #40
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭1874


    Housefree wrote: »
    For OP play dirty, bring her back to court for lower maintenance, cut payments off if she doesn't stay with the agreement, keep going back to court for joint custody. If she's not playing ball go on the offensive


    I wouldnt agree with that, not only will most of that not work, it will be counter productive.
    Do you have any experience that playing hardball is going to work, because my understanding of the situation is it is already skewed against men, there isn't really an option to come in and play hardball.
    Cutting off payments is likely to get them in trouble and only worsen the situation for him , the other party and the children.
    I think it might be possible to get an adjustment if the OPs income changes, but from what I was told, even if their pay reduces, a maintenance order stays in palce until it is adjusted.


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    1874 wrote: »
    You cant say that at all, the other person works part time, that could be near non existant or almost fulltime? you dont know what the other persons hours or wages are, but it appears clear to me the guy here is carrying the full financial burden and has limited options themself.





    But it is her downtime/time off, otherwise what is she doing with time she is not minding the kids, this chap has stated and I think very reasonably, that he thinks they should both use their time not spent with the kids as some or all of their personal time, that is a very sensible and more efficient use of both their times overall. What it sounds like is the other person wants their cake and eat it, they want their scheduled/allocated/agreed off time plus personal time off AND people are coming on here replying to the OP that he is being unreasonable??? wtf things are really skewed, need to shift to a more Scandinavian model because ours is disproportionate/and seems to let one side think they have disproportionate entitlement (which they do).





    But you're married and in a relationship?? so how is that comparable?

    You are sharing the load with your spouse it seems, and obviously down time can be together with the kids, because you are sharing tasks and even if a person needs time off/out, the other person is there and it can be arranged more easily, your situation is NOT comparable.






    It shouldn't come down to money if the primary caregiver is only working parttime, they shouldnt be paid as a parent to mind their own kids, it should be for costs and to cover that, you dont get paid as a parent, you should know that.


    Thanks exactly my thoughts


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    #42
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭1874


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Well take the opportunity then. Let her have as many solo weeks holidays as she wants and then you get to spend more and more time with your boys. Is that not a win for you?


    Well if you read the thread, you'd see they spend a lot of time with their kids, they are asking for a personal downtime, once, per year???

    so either you didnt read it all or its the assumed mentality that fathers should be punished or what?


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    #43
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭fits


    1874 wrote: »


    It shouldn't come down to money if the primary caregiver is only working parttime, they shouldnt be paid as a parent to mind their own kids, it should be for costs and to cover that, you dont get paid as a parent, you should know that.


    The primary caregiver is working part time because she is caring for the children. She has lower earning capacity.


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    #44
    dulpit
    Registered Users Posts: 10,473 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Reading this is weird. Usually you see/hear of fathers fighting for extra access because of the perceived (or real, I don't actually know) prejudices of the courts. But in this case its fighting for less access. Weird, but whatever.

    On the original point and question of the op, when I read it first, my understanding of the handwritten element was that it allowed for a week extra outside the mandatory period or whatever you called it, not instead of.


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    #45
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    1874 wrote: »
    Well if you read the thread, you'd see they spend a lot of time with their kids, they are asking for a personal downtime, once, per year???

    so either you didnt read it all or its the assumed mentality that fathers should be punished or what?

    How spending more time with your children fathers being punished?


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    #46
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    lazygal wrote: »
    The primary caregiver has the children more. Paying €240 a week for that level of care is cheap. You couldn't get a child minder for that rate so I'm not sure why anyone feels hard done by having to pay that for their children.

    €240 a week is crazy money unless the op has an amazing salary....

    The mother will be able to claim all sorts of benefits of course depending on work status...
    She will also be getting the full children's allowance.

    Whether it's a guy or girl that has the kids primarily that's a big chunk a week to be paying out then have costs of living themselves where for example they've to rent elsewhere and pay all the bills and still be able to feed themselves.

    Unfortunately couples break up but isn't it great to see a father stepping up and not running away from the circumstances.

    It's a fair question or questions from the op to get some feedback and honestly he deserves a life too.
    He isn't trying to fob off his responsibility or anything near as such.

    I couldn't live paying out €240 a week on maintenance I honestly can't see how anyone could Inthe climate we are in at the moment unless you are a CEO or Leo or something like that on €250k a year....

    €960 a month is a mortgage, to many it could be a lot more then a mortgage.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Foweva Awone wrote: »
    As an alternative point of view, I'm a mother who's in a similar situation to you, in that the other parent has Primary Care and Control, and I have much less time with my son.

    It's years since we've been in court - it's all very amicable these days - but when we were in and out of court, I was always fighting for more time with my son, not less. Can't imagine it often happens the other way around. :-/

    You talk about having more downtime - the way I see it, the time I spend with my son when I'm not working IS my downtime. There's literally nothing else I'd rather do ... I plan all my holidays around time with him.

    It might help if you view this unexpected additional time with your children as a bonus, not as a problem. Plenty of separated fathers (and mothers) out there who have to fight tooth-and-nail for ANY time with their kids, who would kill to have your "problem".

    I hear you and I might be open to it if the specific month it happens is under my control and not hers, I am being told to take them for a week in August which is a very busy month in works and there is no reasonable negotiation on it, people here think its only weekends, the 12 weekends I don't have the kids I take them midweek after work and drop them to school the next morning, as I said previously I didn't want to say too much for fear of being identified


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    #48
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭fits


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    €240 a week is crazy money unless the op has an amazing salary....

    The mother will be able to claim all sorts of benefits of course depending on work status...
    She will also be getting the full children's allowance.

    .

    And yet, that’s what kids cost and someone has to pay for it. 140 barrly makes a dent in things.


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    #49
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,850 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm confused, is there other kids that are not yours involved in this?


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    fits wrote: »
    And yet, that’s what kids cost and someone has to pay for it. 140 barrly makes a dent in things.

    Its 240, so she's getting 1320 including child benefit a month without putting her hand in pocket


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm confused, is there other kids that are not yours involved in this?

    Yep but not my concern obviously


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    #52
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    fits wrote: »
    And yet, that’s what kids cost and someone has to pay for it. 140 barrly makes a dent in things.

    Will you come off it, if my kid cost me €140 a week we would be living in a box under a bridge.


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    #53
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Its 240, so she's getting 1320 including child benefit a month without putting her hand in pocket

    It's for your children. We all pay for our children.


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    #54
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Will you come off it, if my kid cost me €140 a week we would be living in a box under a bridge.

    What age is your kid?
    When we had just the one childcare alone was €270 a week.


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    #55
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭1874


    fits wrote: »
    The primary caregiver is working part time because she is caring for the children. She has lower earning capacity.


    Thats obvious, but the father doenst have to pay her to mind the children, he pays for their costs, she cant expect him to pay for caring for them, he pays maintenance to support that.
    without gong into the ages of the children (which Im not asking) the mother could be working virtually fulltime (we dont know) as the children all might be at school for a lot of the time.

    lazygal wrote: »
    How spending more time with your children fathers being punished?


    You are not listening, you are stuck in your own mindset, no one said spending time with his children is being punished, thats your take on it.
    You and some other posters have tried to paint this as the OP being unconcerned, almost like you are stating they are a bad parent.

    He said he wants some downtime during the year, the other person already gets a lot of that all throughout the year and are also insisting (even causing this situation) because they are demanding down time when the OP isnt scheduled to care for his kids,
    I dont see how he has any spare time at all, let alone personal time if his ex has all her usual time off, plus wants holidays fromt he children when the OP isnt scheduled to be minding them


    As for punishment, no one said minding kids was that, but if a guy works flat out all year long, he should have some entitlement to a few weeks rest. It appears obvious the mother gets the opportunity of repeated instances of small breaks and has personal time off, whereas this chap doesnt seem to get a similar scenario.
    I know minding a child is challenging and time consuming (I have done it fulltime) but it is not as exhausting as fulltime work (for the most part that has been my experience), physically and mentally I can need at least a day to recover from work, sometimes I havent recovered until Im getting ready to return to work.
    Have you ever heard of burnout??


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    #56
    Lashes28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭Lashes28


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I asked a question on wording and people went off on their own agenda on it, slating me as a father not wanting to spend time with my kids when in fact I spend a lot of time with them. As I say joint custody is not an option afforded to fathers when it should be

    You spend two days out of seven with them. That's really not alot of time.
    I'm so confused that you are giving out that you don't automatically get joint custody in Ireland. But at the same time don't want your children for one extra week? If you had them jointly what would you do for childcare while you work? Why don't you do that for the week she's looking for you to take them or are you just looking to go against your ex?


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    #57
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Its 240, so she's getting 1320 including child benefit a month without putting her hand in pocket

    Very personal question here but does she work?

    Is she getting maintenance for the other child?

    I'm actually very surprised with the hate you are receiving here.

    It's all relative to your earnings, your own circumstances of say costs such as running a car, fuel, bills(electric, gas, oil, broadband etc), commute cost for work, food, expenses such as any loans, rent or mortgage, then also if she is in the family home you both had.... Are you paying the mortgage or part of or rent etc ...


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    #58
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    lazygal wrote: »
    What age is your kid?
    When we had just the one childcare alone was €270 a week.

    12


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    €240 a week is crazy money unless the op has an amazing salary....

    The mother will be able to claim all sorts of benefits of course depending on work status...
    She will also be getting the full children's allowance.

    Whether it's a guy or girl that has the kids primarily that's a big chunk a week to be paying out then have costs of living themselves where for example they've to rent elsewhere and pay all the bills and still be able to feed themselves.

    Unfortunately couples break up but isn't it great to see a father stepping up and not running away from the circumstances.

    It's a fair question or questions from the op to get some feedback and honestly he deserves a life too.
    He isn't trying to fob off his responsibility or anything near as such.

    I couldn't live paying out €240 a week on maintenance I honestly can't see how anyone could Inthe climate we are in at the moment unless you are a CEO or Leo or something like that on €250k a year....

    €960 a month is a mortgage, to many it could be a lot more then a mortgage.

    Have a decent job, not CEO lol, being honest I am left with nothing at the end of each month, in a few years the new boom could be over

    Thing is I never disputed paying, access or anything, it was all agreed outside. It was this one line that was a clarification where now its being used. People here are saying I am fighting not to spend an additional week, this is years of manipulating any agreement, I know this will not be the end and from years of dealing with her I nearly have to hold ground on every point.

    Example being she wanted me to hold onto them for an extra hour for a few Sundays, I said no problem, suddenly it became the norm. I paid their vhi from day 1 without ever being asked, I did it for my kids, suddenly it got included in the court order. That really annoyed me as it was someone I was doing for my kids and then suddenly its an order like I was forced


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Very personal question here but does she work?

    Is she getting maintenance for the other child?

    I'm actually very surprised with the hate you are receiving here.

    It's all relative to your earnings, your own circumstances of say costs such as running a car, fuel, bills(electric, gas, oil, broadband etc), commute cost for work, food, expenses such as any loans, rent or mortgage, then also if she is in the family home you both had.... Are you paying the mortgage or part of or rent etc ...

    Not time I heard, no. And it wasn't declared on the means in court


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    1874 wrote: »
    Well if you read the thread, you'd see they spend a lot of time with their kids, they are asking for a personal downtime, once, per year???

    so either you didnt read it all or its the assumed mentality that fathers should be punished or what?

    Do you believe that spending time with your children is punishment?


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