Dublin Bay South By-Election

athlone573 · 02-07-2021 12:22pm

kalych wrote: »

I guess that's not the problem, it's his insistence on being the 'voice of the generation locked out of the housing market' in government that people take offense with. Do as I say and not as I do type if stuff.

Being authentic was never an issue for MaryLou or Clare Daly, its a job at the end of the day.

Brussels Sprout · 02-07-2021 12:45pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Arra sure lookit, it could happen to any of us. I'm forever losing track of the properties my trust fund is buying and selling.

https://www.ontheditch.com/james-geoghegan-trust-fund-carlisle-trust/

Anyone know that the story is with that site? It just materialised out of nowhere a few months ago and has consistently run muckraking pieces about FF & FG. It doesn't run articles very often though. It's almost as if it serves no commercial purpose but is just an arm of some organisation or party. Very fishy.

L1011 · 02-07-2021 12:59pm

Possibly connected to Paddy Cosgrave.

awec · 02-07-2021 1:12pm

Are people from wealthy backgrounds not allowed to get involved in politics or something?

votecounts · 02-07-2021 1:17pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Someone called Anetoo is suing RTÉ for being excluded from DBS TV debates.

Nope, never heard of him either.

That's the AONTU Candidate Toibin

Brussels Sprout · 02-07-2021 1:47pm

votecounts wrote: »

That's the AONTU Candidate Toibin

I'd imagine RTE have 2 reasons for not wanting her included:

A debate with 15 people would be unmanageable. Best to filter out the no-hopers
If they included Aontu then they'd probably need to include Justin Barrett and Dolores Cahill as well

timmyntc · 02-07-2021 1:53pm

awec wrote: »

Are people from wealthy backgrounds not allowed to get involved in politics or something?

It's a bit rich claiming to represent the generation locked out of housing, when you've come from a long line of supreme court justices, and have likely never struggled for money or housing in your life.

Peregrine · 02-07-2021 1:59pm

awec wrote: »

Are people from wealthy backgrounds not allowed to get involved in politics or something?

Nothing wrong with wealthy people getting involved in politics.

But when wealthy people get involved in politics with a party that's been in government for 10 years and claim to represent the voice of people they don't share any hardships with and who suffered under their party's policies, people will take issue with it.

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Anyone know that the story is with that site? It just materialised out of nowhere a few months ago and has consistently run muckraking pieces about FF & FG. It doesn't run articles very often though. It's almost as if it serves no commercial purpose but is just an arm of some organisation or party. Very fishy.

"Bowes declined to say who else was behind the project but said friends of the publication included Paddy Cosgrave, the founder of the Web Summit, and Michael Smith, the editor of Village magazine, which broke news of the Varadkar leak allegations."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/leo-varadkar-leak-whistleblower-chay-bowes-backs-more-inquiring-news-site-x08mshz5k

hotmail.com · 02-07-2021 2:09pm

KevRossi wrote: »

You've got dates and facts wrong here. The employment situation was as dire in 1991 when I finished college as at any other time. Most of us emigrated, incidentally almost all of us came back to Ireland within 15 years.

Free 3rd level education benefitted all. It may have freed up money for a small number of people to send kids to private school but it also massively increased the number of people going into further education. the results of that have had a very positive impact on the economy. It can just as easily be argued that higher disposable incomes led to people sending kids to private schools.

I could just as easily argue that every time Labour were in power, the overwhelming majority of people in this country (in fact all people) have come out financially better off. The gap between the poorest and the super rich has widened in all developed countries, Ireland is no different there.

The economy turned around in the late 80s but it wasn't until the mid 90s that the effects of that were felt. The IRA Ceasefire and moves to peace helped matters.

I'm not saying Quinn or Labour were terrible. I'm just saying they didn't do much while in government to further Left causes.

They might as well be FF or FG. Not much different.

The only distinguishable credit they get is in terms of social matters which afflicted Ireland for so long. Contraception, divorce and so on.

AndrewJRenko · 02-07-2021 3:24pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

They might as well be FF or FG. Not much different.

Put a majority FG or FF government in place and you'll see the difference. FG would have sold off every possible state asset in 2011 in a fire sale if they were let.

Sam Russell · 02-07-2021 3:30pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Put a majority FG or FF government in place and you'll see the difference. FG would have sold off every possible state asset in 2011 in a fire sale if they were let.

They did.

Nama was a disastrous structure. They were assigned the bank debts at 50% and considered a success if they got 51% for them. If they got those debts at 100%, they would not have sold so cheap that the buyers flipped those assets for huge profits. They also sold batches of assets in very large bundles that reduced possible buyers to just one or two.

Also many deals left a bad smell, like the NI portfolio.

The question to ask is always 'Cui bono?'

AndrewJRenko · 02-07-2021 3:35pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

They did.

Nama was a disastrous structure. They were assigned the bank debts at 50% and considered a success if they got 51% for them. If they got those debts at 100%, they would not have sold so cheap that the buyers flipped those assets for huge profits. They also sold batches of assets in very large bundles that reduced possible buyers to just one or two.

Also many deals left a bad smell, like the NI portfolio.

The question to ask is always 'Cui bono?'

It was FF that set up NAMA. I was talking about infrastructure assets like the power network, forests, harbours, trains, rail lines, even motorways.

Sam Russell · 02-07-2021 4:54pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It was FF that set up NAMA. I was talking about infrastructure assets like the power network, forests, harbours, trains, rail lines, even motorways.

FG was in power during the mad sell off. There was nothing to stop the Gov of the day (FG - Lab) from revising the rules for NAMA, or requiring Cabinet approval for large value sell offs.

NAMA cost us Metro North and the M20. We got the M17 and M18 instead. Also BoI was sold off cheap.

hotmail.com · 02-07-2021 4:55pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It was FF that set up NAMA. I was talking about infrastructure assets like the power network, forests, harbours, trains, rail lines, even motorways.

A Labour government approved the privatisation of water and a Labour minister oversaw it's implementation.

Sam Russell · 02-07-2021 5:00pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

A Labour government approved the privatisation of water and a Labour minister oversaw it's implementation.

We have never had a Labour Gov.

Podge_irl · 02-07-2021 5:09pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

We have never had a Labour Gov.

We've also never privatised water...

awec · 02-07-2021 6:00pm

timmyntc wrote: »

It's a bit rich claiming to represent the generation locked out of housing, when you've come from a long line of supreme court justices, and have likely never struggled for money or housing in your life.

I still don't get how it's relevant.

Eoin Ó Broin, heralded as the great spokesperson for the little man on housing, has never struggled for money or housing in his life either. His background may not be surpreme court judges, but still comes from a more wealthy background than most. South Dublin private schoolboy.

Paul Murphy, south Dublin private schoolboy. Has never had money or housing issues in his past.

Richard Boyd Barrett, south Dublin private schoolboy. Has never had money or housing issues in his past.

How many Irish politicians come from a background where housing and money was an issue?

athlone573 · 02-07-2021 6:10pm

awec wrote: »

I still don't get how it's relevant.

Eoin Ó Broin, heralded as the great spokesperson for the little man on housing, has never struggled for money or housing in his life either. His background may not be surpreme court judges, but still comes from a more wealthy background than most. South Dublin private schoolboy.

Paul Murphy, south Dublin private schoolboy. Has never had money or housing issues in his past.

Richard Boyd Barrett, south Dublin private schoolboy. Has never had money or housing issues in his past.

How many Irish politicians come from a background where housing and money was an issue?

Michael D and the late Tony Gregory are probably the most well known

hotmail.com · 02-07-2021 6:21pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

We have never had a Labour Gov.

Labour were in government. Nit pick all you like.

Labour was damaged irrevocably by the water charges. Their base deserted them leaving only middle class voters.

Sam Russell · 02-07-2021 6:28pm

athlone573 wrote: »

Michael D and the late Tony Gregory are probably the most well known

Bertie Ahern, Charlie Haughey, but that might be different.

The Phantom Jipper · 02-07-2021 6:54pm

awec wrote: »

I still don't get how it's relevant.

Eoin Ó Broin, heralded as the great spokesperson for the little man on housing, has never struggled for money or housing in his life either. His background may not be surpreme court judges, but still comes from a more wealthy background than most. South Dublin private schoolboy.

Paul Murphy, south Dublin private schoolboy. Has never had money or housing issues in his past.

Richard Boyd Barrett, south Dublin private schoolboy. Has never had money or housing issues in his past.

How many Irish politicians come from a background where housing and money was an issue?

Respectfully disagree. They're all on the left and have built up some credibility through community activism, and would be disadvantaged by their own policies if they're all as wealthy as advertised.

Geoghegan on the other hand seems to be throwing out soundbites of what he thinks people want to hear regardless of how ludicrous they seem, given he's in the party most responsible for the current crisis and seemingly bought his gaff with his trust fund money, to add insult to injury.

Annasopra · 02-07-2021 7:11pm

athlone573 wrote: »

Michael D and the late Tony Gregory are probably the most well known

Michael D was not from a wealthy background!!

L1011 · 02-07-2021 7:16pm

Annasopra wrote: »

Michael D was not from a wealthy background!!

That's the point of that post, it was politicians from poor backgrounds.

AndrewJRenko · 02-07-2021 7:35pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

Labour were in government. Nit pick all you like.

Labour was damaged irrevocably by the water charges. Their base deserted them leaving only middle class voters.

Water charges were part of the Troika deal, made by FF after they bankrupted the country.

We didn't have too many options at the time, if you recall correctly.

Marcusm · 02-07-2021 8:26pm

awec wrote: »

I still don't get how it's relevant.

Eoin Ó Broin, heralded as the great spokesperson for the little man on housing, has never struggled for money or housing in his life either. His background may not be surpreme court judges, but still comes from a more wealthy background than most. South Dublin private schoolboy.

Paul Murphy, south Dublin private schoolboy. Has never had money or housing issues in his past.

Richard Boyd Barrett, south Dublin private schoolboy. Has never had money or housing issues in his past.

How many Irish politicians come from a background where housing and money was an issue?

I’ll leave Murphybout of it but I’Broin and Boyd Barrett make waves to get things done (or maybe just to make waves) but didn’t make personal claims as to how they have endured the same difficulties.

It’s what I really object to about Geoghegan, he’s not even smart enough to frame his claims within realistic bounds. E.g. “senior adviser to the banking enquiry” = third named parliamentary assistant to John Paul Phelan, one of the most inconsequential of FG deputies.

There is no reason or requirement for him to make such outlandish claims. They merely show him up to be sophomoric.

Podge_irl · 02-07-2021 8:39pm

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Respectfully disagree. They're all on the left and have built up some credibility through community activism, and would be disadvantaged by their own policies if they're all as wealthy as advertised.

Nope, the left in Ireland uniquely is obsessed with not actually taxing wealth, only income. So they wouldn't suffer all that much at all.

iwasliedto · 02-07-2021 8:49pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Nice theory, but you're a little naive if you think this works in practice. It's a bit tricky to look the voter in the eye and say 'Give me your number one vote, so I can stay OUT of Government for two or three terms. I'll won't get any of my important policies implement while your kids are in school needing supports and your parents are expiring fast needing health services. But stick me, and everything will be great in 15-20 years.'.

It's a hard sell, to all but the most extreme purist lefties, and they're already committed to supporting the PBP to not be in Government.

It will be interesting to see what happens to SF support in ten years time, after they've had a stint at Government and realised that strangely enough, they don't have all the easy answers.

if you see where labour is now I think you can see what party have been politically naive. They believed that their voters whom they ignored and punished would continue to vote for them. Politics are about long term strategies to get your ideas implemented. Labour had a dominant position on the left and was streets ahead of SF in working-class areas. That has all changed because of Labour party strategies. SF seems to have had a policy of getting FF/FG into power with each other so that they will become a dominant government partner on the left. It will be interesting to see if this gets them into a government.

Bobtheman · 02-07-2021 8:54pm

Let's face facts you have to have some wealth behind you to get into politics.
Unless you are SF who can somehow bankroll you while you canvass. Wonder where that money came from?!
Thus finding someone who is renting plus already a Councillor is tough enough.
Look at bacik. Three ****en jobs. Barrister. Lecture and a nice number in the Senate courtesy of the corrupt constituency of Trinity. It's all legal of course. The best scams are.

Podge_irl · 02-07-2021 8:57pm

iwasliedto wrote: »

SF seems to have had a policy of getting FF/FG into power with each other so that they will become a dominant government partner on the left. It will be interesting to see if this gets them into a government.

SF never had any other option than being in opposition because no one would go into govt with them. You are granting them far too much credit for this supposed strategy.

Bobtheman · 02-07-2021 9:00pm

I have some sympathy for Labour. Without it public expenditure would have been cut to a shred by FG.
However if the old guard of rabbit, gilmore etc had not been in such a rush to get those pensions and tried to stay out of government then I'd see them with 40 plus seats now.
FG would have been able to form a minority coalition backed by FF in 2011.
I appreciate they protected the weakest because without them FG would make scrooge look like Santa it's just they made no effort to renegotiate the trokia deal or do anything radical in government.

Dublin Bay South By-Election

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