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BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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    #6692
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭john boye


    BusDisconnects wrote: »

    If the NTA didn't exist then GoAhead Ireland would not exist. There would be a central place, it would be called DublinBus.ie and instead of TFI we would have CIE.

    Yeah we all remember those days.


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    #6693
    BusDisconnects
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 ✭BusDisconnects


    john boye wrote: »
    Yeah we all remember those days.

    If those days were still here, we'd have none of the so called problems you talk about.....


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    #6694
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    BusDisconnects wrote: »
    Do you know what the word 'covert' means?

    By the way, there is only one s in BUSES.
    BusDisconnects wrote: »
    What can I say, always good to help out someone who failed English at school.
    BusDisconnects wrote: »
    I see your grammar hasn't improved from your last post, so I've fixed your post.

    Sniping at another poster like this and talking to them in a condescending way just because they happen to disagree with you is not something that will be accepted here.

    Enjoy a holiday from the forum.

    - Moderator


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    #6695
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,522 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    the BRAND Master wrote: »
    Indeed, the Dublin Bus brand is an iconic brand, which is widely recognised nationally and is a significant asset to the state. The value of this citizen brand should be utilised to the maximum, building on its strong performance to drive further customer growth

    I have never got on a bus because it was an "iconic brand".

    I got on because it was bringing me where I wanted to go.


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    #6696
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Go Ahead Ireland have posted an update on their route 102 page in relation to the BusConnects related changes.
    https://www.goaheadireland.ie/services/03/102#disruptions
    There will be a change on Route 102 due to the launch of BusConnects Phase 1 on Sunday 27th June 2021. The Route 102 will now continue on Strand Road, along the coastline. It will no longer serve Wendell Avenue, Redfern Avenue, and Carrickhill Road. Changes towards Dublin Airport Normal route to Portmarnock Village – continues north east along Strand Road (coastline) to where it re-joins old route at Stop 3616. Stops removed: 3610, 3611 ,6135, 3612, 3613, 3615 New Stops: 3600, 3601, 3602, 3604, 3621, 7692 Changes towards Sutton Station Normal route to where Coast Road meets Strand Road – continues south along Strand Road (coastline) to Portmarnock Village, where it re-joins old route. Stops removed: 3605, 3606, 3607, 3608, 3609, 949 New Stops: 3593, 3594, 3595, 3596, 3597, 7725, 950

    Really should be listed on the front page of their website as well though and could do with being broken into paragraphs!


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    #6697
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    naheme8357 wrote: »
    Speak for yourself, a study by John Lahart, FF TD, suggested that many people use Dublin Bus because it is an iconic and well recognized brand.

    These are the facts, you are free to have your own opinion though, even if it is wrong.

    I like how he thinks we have a choice between bus operators historically, such that branding makes any difference whatsoever.


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    #6698
    Burt Renaults
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    naheme8357 wrote: »
    Speak for yourself, a study by John Lahart, FF TD, suggested that many people use Dublin Bus because it is an iconic and well recognized brand.

    These are the facts, you are free to have your own opinion though, even if it is wrong.

    This is one of the silliest things I've ever read on here. They use it because it gets them wherever they want to go. When 10% of routes were contracted to a private operator with a different (and let's be honest, absolutely hideous) livery, the passengers didn't abandon the service. Most didn't even notice.


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    #6699
    ax586
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭ax586


    Burt Renaults wrote: »
    This is one of the silliest things I've ever read on here. They use it because it gets them wherever they want to go. When 10% of routes were contracted to a private operator with a different (and let's be honest, absolutely hideous) livery, the passengers didn't abandon the service. Most didn't even notice.

    They still thought it was Dublin bus even tho the uniforms are completely different..sure people to this day still send in complaints to DB for GAI services.


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    #6700
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    BusDisconnects wrote: »
    Speak to your local TD or visit nbru.ie

    what do nbru have to do with anything? they are a union, they do not operate buses and have zero expertise or experience in planning and implementing anything related to providing a modern, fit for purpose bus service.
    BRAND Master View Post wrote:
    Indeed, the Dublin Bus brand is an iconic brand, which is widely recognised nationally and is a significant asset to the state. The value of this citizen brand should be utilised to the maximum, building on its strong performance to drive further customer growth

    widely recognised it may be but it is in no way iconic. Anyone who is in anyway familiar with the brand will attest to it being an awful one. Buses constantly late or not showing up, outdated ticketing and technology, hideous colour scheme, terrible industrial relations that tend to end up in the news frequently. The value of the brand is minimal, despite what the heads at DB may think. In fact it is probably a liability for any other operator looking at the Dublin market for the next rounds of tendering, having to deal with the baggage that comes with any hand over of assets or staff will put most off.


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    #6701
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    DB website, 2 days after the launch has a timetable for the bus routes that no longer exist up and there's a banner ad saying that it changed to the H1 eyc. on the 27th. This is very confusing for someone seeking information. They could easily ignore the banner ad as we all do and follow the now defunct timetable for the 31. Why don't they take down the old timetable?


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    #6702
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    cgcsb wrote: »
    DB website, 2 days after the launch has a timetable for the bus routes that no longer exist up and there's a banner ad saying that it changed to the H1 eyc. on the 27th. This is very confusing for someone seeking information. They could easily ignore the banner ad as we all do and follow the now defunct timetable for the 31. Why don't they take down the old timetable?

    It seems that there have been some complaints about the matter too:
    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1409774690797821953


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    #6703
    xper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭xper


    cgcsb wrote: »
    DB website, 2 days after the launch has a timetable for the bus routes that no longer exist up and there's a banner ad saying that it changed to the H1 eyc. on the 27th. This is very confusing for someone seeking information. They could easily ignore the banner ad as we all do and follow the now defunct timetable for the 31. Why don't they take down the old timetable?
    They'd have to put the new ones up first!
    This is fairly shambolic. The DB website normally handles the switch of timetables relatively smoothly, timing wise at least, so there is an established procedure that has not been followed here. Basic project management failure.

    (And while you're at it lads, remove the broken link on the Timetable Options dropdown to "Network Driect" that exposes your debug information publicly ffs)


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    #6704
    Citrus_8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    xper wrote: »
    They'd have to put the new ones up first!
    This is fairly shambolic. The DB website normally handles the switch of timetables relatively smoothly, timing wise at least, so there is an established procedure that has not been followed here. Basic project management failure.

    (And while you're at it lads, remove the broken link on the Timetable Options dropdown to "Network Driect" that exposes your debug information publicly ffs)
    Someone in charge is clearly on holiday...


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    #6705
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    mamotol540 wrote: »
    It's one thing creating a new brand, but it's a completely different matter replacing an old brand. I'm not too sure if some of the iconic brands that we have in this country, like Guinness and Aer Lingus, would take kindly to someone coming in and taking their brand away from them.

    Or do you think that nobody travels with Aer Lingus because of the value of their brand and nobody drinks Guinness because of it's good name? This is basic business common sense at the end of the day. If someone has a repeat customer it's because they are happy with the service and even if you don't like it, many people customers who use Dublin Bus come back day after day after day, so much so some are so impressed that they by yearly passes.

    Customers return to Dublin Bus, just like Aer Lingus, because of it's unparalleled level of customer service, expert maintenance and exceptional operations policy and the fact it is a public service, run for the benefit of the customers and not for profit. Go and look at the English bus operations to see what the alternative is like with Sky High fares, no frequency and battered, dangerous vehicles.

    So of course people travel with Dublin Bus as an iconic brand, it gives an image of safety, reliability, customer service, community spirit and inclusion at a good price that serves the entire community. I'm proud of it, and so you should be.

    I have just hernia-ed myself laughing.

    Also quoting the entirety of the post for the benefit of others once he's banned again and his post deleted.
    It's one thing creating a new brand, but it's a completely different matter replacing an old brand. I'm not too sure if some of the iconic brands that we have in this country, like Guinness and Aer Lingus, would take kindly to someone coming in and taking their brand away from them.

    Or do you think that nobody travels with Aer Lingus because of the value of their brand and nobody drinks Guinness because of it's good name? This is basic business common sense at the end of the day. If someone has a repeat customer it's because they are happy with the service and even if you don't like it, many people customers who use Dublin Bus come back day after day after day, so much so some are so impressed that they by yearly passes.

    Customers return to Dublin Bus, just like Aer Lingus, because of it's unparalleled level of customer service, expert maintenance and exceptional operations policy and the fact it is a public service, run for the benefit of the customers and not for profit. Go and look at the English bus operations to see what the alternative is like with Sky High fares, no frequency and battered, dangerous vehicles.

    So of course people travel with Dublin Bus as an iconic brand, it gives an image of safety, reliability, customer service, community spirit and inclusion at a good price that serves the entire community. I'm proud of it, and so you should be.


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    #6706
    Burt Renaults
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    john boye wrote: »
    Guinness, Tayto, Jameson, Kerrygold, Dublin Bus. That's what pops into people's heads when they think of Ireland.

    If DB had cared enough about their brand to protect it from the beginning, then maybe, just maybe, streets lined with green buses would pop into people's heads when they think of Dublin.


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    #6707
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,843 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    cgcsb wrote: »
    DB website, 2 days after the launch has a timetable for the bus routes that no longer exist up and there's a banner ad saying that it changed to the H1 eyc. on the 27th. This is very confusing for someone seeking information. They could easily ignore the banner ad as we all do and follow the now defunct timetable for the 31. Why don't they take down the old timetable?
    God no, that would spoil The Brand™!


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    #6708
    Stephen Gawking
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭Stephen Gawking


    So where would one find timetables for H1,H2,H3 & route 6 out of interest?


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    #6709
    noelfirl
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    Stephen Gawking wrote: »
    So where would one find timetables for H1,H2,H3 & route 6 out of interest?

    Halfway down this page would probably be easiest.

    https://www.transportforireland.ie/h-spine/


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    #6710
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Stephen Gawking wrote: »
    So where would one find timetables for H1,H2,H3 & route 6 out of interest?

    See attached PDFs


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    #6711
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    cgcsb wrote: »
    DB website, 2 days after the launch has a timetable for the bus routes that no longer exist up and there's a banner ad saying that it changed to the H1 eyc. on the 27th. This is very confusing for someone seeking information. They could easily ignore the banner ad as we all do and follow the now defunct timetable for the 31. Why don't they take down the old timetable?

    I've just noticed that if you load the timetable section of the Dublin Bus website up via mobile, then there is no banner ad and no way to actually know that the old routes are not running, the timetables appear as normal like they did before BusConnects was even dreamed of, which is even worse.


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    #6712
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    So the main change for H1 is that the frequency is now every 15 minutes instead of every 20 minutes and it starts an hour earlier in the morning. Is that it or have I missed something?


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    #6713
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    So the main change for H1 is that the frequency is now every 15 minutes instead of every 20 minutes and it starts an hour earlier in the morning. Is that it or have I missed something?

    The H Spine is now co-ordinated in a way that is designed to keep more even headway between services in order to try and prevent bunching.

    Also there are a fair amount of improvements to weekend services.


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    #6714
    Citrus_8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    So the main change for H1 is that the frequency is now every 15 minutes instead of every 20 minutes and it starts an hour earlier in the morning. Is that it or have I missed something?
    These are the main. Keep in mind that originally there was no H spine and routes were planned to work separately with unsynced timetables. At a later stage it has been change to a spine without a bus corridor. It's the only spine without a corridor and has been launched first as it doesn't require much of a preparation, comparing to the other spines. I believe, better frequency and earlier starting times is a big achievement, knowing how resilient and uninterested Dublin Bus were about the earlier starting times (because they care about drivers more than about passengers).


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    #6715
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    devnull wrote: »
    The H Spine is now co-ordinated in a way that is designed to keep more even headway between services in order to try and prevent bunching.

    Also there are a fair amount of improvements to weekend services.
    Citrus_8 wrote: »
    These are the main. Keep in mind that originally there was no H spine and routes were planned to work separately with unsynced timetables. At a later stage it has been change to a spine without a bus corridor. It's the only spine without a corridor and has been launched first as it doesn't require much of a preparation, comparing to the other spines. I believe, better frequency and earlier starting times is a big achievement, knowing how resilient and uninterested Dublin Bus were about the earlier starting times (because they care about drivers more than about passengers).

    Thanks for the info. a definite improvement in the service and one that is very welcome. The weekend changes, sunday in particular, are a real step up from what was there before.


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    #6716
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Citrus_8 wrote: »
    It's the only spine without a corridor


    Sorry, what's the difference between a spine and a bus corridor? I thought they're the same thing


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    #6717
    Breezer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Sorry, what's the difference between a spine and a bus corridor? I thought they're the same thing

    I presume what’s meant is the spine is the route (with branches off at the ends), whereas the corridor is the infrastructure along that route.


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    #6718
    Citrus_8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Breezer wrote: »
    I presume what’s meant is the spine is the route (with branches off at the ends), whereas the corridor is the infrastructure along that route.
    Exactly! A spine is a collection of frequent bus services (routes) which branches at the end. While a corridor is a bus priority (full or a compromised part priority) roads or roads along the corridor which can include pedestrian and cycling paths - that's an infrastructure.


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    #6719
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    There’s a couple of new bus stops between portmarnock and Malahide that have so many route variations you’d wonder what’s going on.

    There seems to be a 102, 102p, 102s and 102t. Seems a bit ridiculous.


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    #6720
    p_haugh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    There’s a couple of new bus stops between portmarnock and Malahide that have so many route variations you’d wonder what’s going on.

    There seems to be a 102, 102p, 102s and 102t. Seems a bit ridiculous.

    Those 102 variants are school routes being run by GoAhead on behalf of the NTA, each with a few services in the morning and afternoon most weekdays.


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    #6721
    Citrus_8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    p_haugh wrote: »
    Those 102 variants are school routes being run by GoAhead on behalf of the NTA, each with a few services in the morning and afternoon most weekdays.
    I agree. That's a bad practise. Ireland has very little experience in providing a good service to public transport passengers. While relatively new buses and relatively polite drivers are great, a standard of providing information to the passengers is pretty low. The biggest issue prior TFI (I actually should say NTA) was that each operator provided info the way they imagined is best which meant no standard. This is still an issue, hopefully, TFI will fix this in time (it's going very slow, though).

    I would name them as "102..." or "All 102". Alternatively, school routes shouldn't be advertised on the bus stop signs at all - this information should be available on the separate TFI school bus routes' page and available through relevant schools only.


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