what are the legal and financial benefits to being married.

tjc28 · 29-06-2021 8:13pm #1

The OH and I are together 14 years. Two kids, a mortgage and neither of us are overly pushed about marriage but she recently lost her job and I know I'm missing out on her tax credits. Now I'm wondering what other benefits we are missing out on? What are the advantages to getting the piece of paper from the state?

riclad · 29-06-2021 8:27pm

you get extra tax credits,
Also at some point one partner will die,
if you are not married to each other then there may be a large tax bill to pay for capital gains,inheritance etc
i read an article ,re 2 friends getting married simply for the tax benefits .
eg they are not in love, not in a relationship,
eg he wants to leave a friend his house in his will.
since marriage is open, anyone can marry anyone, regardless of sex .
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax/taxation_of_married_people.html#
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax/taxation_of_married_people.html

i presume you are getting childrens allowance

simple put you can use her tax credits if you are married

she can apply for a medical card whether she is single or married

EmmetSpiceland · 29-06-2021 8:36pm

XsApollo · 29-06-2021 8:39pm

Succession rights.
Tax bands, credits.
I think as you get older ,then being able to make decisions on your partners behalf might be of use.

If you are not in a registered partnership then I’m not sure on medical issues or having to make decisions on stuff if the other person isn’t capable, wouldn’t be up to you. ( open to correction on that one)

odyssey06 · 29-06-2021 8:41pm

One of you gets the life insurance

* This is the After Hours answer given while watching cop show

Capt'n Midnight · 29-06-2021 9:04pm

You can plant their hairs at a crime scene.

ulster · 29-06-2021 10:44pm

tjc28 wrote: »

The OH and I are together 14 years. Two kids, a mortgage and neither of us are overly pushed about marriage but she recently lost her job and I know I'm missing out on her tax credits. Now I'm wondering what other benefits we are missing out on? What are the advantages to getting the piece of paper from the state?

Why did they need to create a Taxation forum when we've got the most tax specialists in AH.

29-06-2021 10:58pm

tjc28 wrote: »

The OH and I are together 14 years. Two kids, a mortgage and neither of us are overly pushed about marriage but she recently lost her job and I know I'm missing out on her tax credits. Now I'm wondering what other benefits we are missing out on? What are the advantages to getting the piece of paper from the state?

Possibly tax credits, although in today's world where salaries are rising and the marginal cut-off is absurdly low, that increasingly doesn't apply anymore.

I don't see any benefit to marriage. I'll go along with it like, but I quietly object to being legally tied to a person, and having to ask the government's permission to separate if we both change our minds about the relationship. I'm not into libertarianism or anything ridiculous like that, it's just a weird thing to do. If marriage wasn't a tradition, we would never invent it in 2021.

My parents never married for a different reason that's not worth mentioning, but they always said they were 'common-law' husband and wife, which I thought was a legal thing until just recently when I googled it. Apparently it's just a informal expression with no legal meaning. I'd be happy with that.

Siblings only got married if their OH really wanted to. If it's very important to her, just go for it.

Another thing, it's borderline offensive that the State doesn't recognise any family as family, unless it is based on marriage. The courts have reaffirmed this even very recently.

McGinniesta · 29-06-2021 11:16pm

Marriage is a glorified business contract and tax arrangement.

Little more.

riclad · 29-06-2021 11:55pm

Not married equals maybe extra legal costs plus extra taxs to be paid when at some point one partner pass, s away. It's alot simpler if couple is married,
I don't understand why someone with children is not married unless you really want to pay extra tax every year

30-06-2021 12:06am

riclad wrote: »

Not married equals maybe extra legal costs plus extra taxs to be paid when at some point one partner pass, s away. It's alot simpler if couple is married,
I don't understand why someone with children is not married unless you really want to pay extra tax every year

Because woman and man often earn the same salary nowadays, often above the marginal cut-off, to a point where there is no tax benefit. That applies to modest salaries, we're not talking millionaires here.

You're right about Capital Gains taxes, which I don't think have been mentioned, but that is solved by passing the property to the children in shares on the death of a surviving spouse, which isn't a big deal. It's already commonplace for married couples.

tjc28 · 30-06-2021 12:16am

thanks for all the replies so far.
the OH isn't fussy about marriage and neither am I but the CGT info is kind of frightening. am I right in saying if one of us dies and leaves the house to the surviving partner the house (or the half the deceased paid for) they are then stung for tax on it. maybe I've picked up on this point wrong but if not, what a load of crap.
We're both young enough and healthy thankfully but that'll change.

tjc28 · 30-06-2021 12:18am

riclad wrote: »

Not married equals maybe extra legal costs plus extra taxs to be paid when at some point one partner pass, s away. It's alot simpler if couple is married,
I don't understand why someone with children is not married unless you really want to pay extra tax every year

so what kind of extra tax are we paying every year if we collectively earn 80000

tjc28 · 30-06-2021 12:19am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

You can plant their hairs at a crime scene.

I've never thought about this before but I could do this now. We're not married and her hair can be found in most rooms in the house.

30-06-2021 12:19am

tjc28 wrote: »

so what kind of extra tax are we paying every year if we collectively earn 80000

It depends upon how evenly split is that income, but there is almost definitely a benefit here. Revenue will be able to tell you this over the phone, they're great for this stuff. Sometimes they split credits for married couples without the couple even asking.

tjc28 · 30-06-2021 12:20am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It depends upon how evenly split is that income, but there is almost definitely a benefit here. Revenue will be able to tell you this over the phone, they're great for this stuff. Sometimes they split credits for married couples without the couple even asking.

interesting. I'll make that call. thanks.

dxhound2005 · 30-06-2021 12:22am

tjc28 wrote: »

thanks for all the replies so far.
the OH isn't fussy about marriage and neither am I but the CGT info is kind of frightening. am I right in saying if one of us dies and leaves the house to the surviving partner the house (or the half the deceased paid for) they are then stung for tax on it. maybe I've picked up on this point wrong but if not, what a load of crap.
We're both young enough and healthy thankfully but that'll change.

Whatever about getting married, you should definitely make a will if you haven't done so already.

Geuze · 30-06-2021 12:23am

If both spouses earn over the SRCOP of 35,300, there are no income tax benefits.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/tax-relief-charts/index.aspx

tobsey · 30-06-2021 12:24am

tjc28 wrote: »

so what kind of extra tax are we paying every year if we collectively earn 80000

If one of you doesn’t earn enough to pay the top rate of tax, you’re losing out slightly. In a one income household the worker pays around 3k less in tax by taking the 1650 in tax credits and 1800 by paying 20% instead of 40% on the 9000 of the standard cut off you can transfer. If you both earn over 36k or so and both pay some tax at 40% then there’s no savings there.

Main advantages of marriage are next of kin rights, inheritance rights and legal guardianship of the kids. You could just enter a civil partnership and get those without it being a marriage.

Geuze · 30-06-2021 12:24am

tjc28 wrote: »

thanks for all the replies so far.
the OH isn't fussy about marriage and neither am I but the CGT info is kind of frightening. am I right in saying if one of us dies and leaves the house to the surviving partner the house (or the half the deceased paid for) they are then stung for tax on it. maybe I've picked up on this point wrong but if not, what a load of crap.

You are referring to CAT.

CGT is not the same as CAT.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/index.aspx

You may have heard about the case where two men married each other to avoid CAT!!

https://www.independent.ie/style/weddings/the-final-say/wedding-talk/straight-irish-pensioner-to-marry-his-male-carer-to-avoid-inheritance-tax-bill-36413401.html

30-06-2021 12:25am

tjc28 wrote: »

interesting. I'll make that call. thanks.

If you end up proposing, make sure to tell her you're doing it on Revenue advice.

Women love that.

beertons · 30-06-2021 12:27am

Hmmm, benefits.

None.

tjc28 · 30-06-2021 12:30am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If you end up proposing, make sure to tell her you're doing it on Revenue advice.

Women love that.

you're a proper romantic, I can tell

dxhound2005 · 30-06-2021 12:38am

McGinniesta wrote: »

Marriage is a glorified business contract and tax arrangement.

Little more.

And one thing which is absent from marriage legislation is any mention of romantic love.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/35/enacted/en/html

30-06-2021 3:41am

tjc28 wrote: »

you're a proper romantic, I can tell

I'm pretty sure the only reason my fiancee is still with me is that I do her Form-11 self-assessment tax returns.

Peregrinus · 30-06-2021 4:37am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't see any benefit to marriage. I'll go along with it like, but I quietly object to being legally tied to a person, and having to ask the government's permission to separate if we both change our minds about the relationship. I'm not into libertarianism or anything ridiculous like that, it's just a weird thing to do. If marriage wasn't a tradition, we would never invent it in 2021.

To be fair, if you both change your minds about the relationship and are in agreement about the terms of your separation then you don't have to ask anyone's permission to separate. It's when the couple are not in agreement that these things end up in the courts. And, if it's acrimonious, not being formally married won't prevent you from ending up in the courts.

The main restraint that being married places on you is that, so long as you're you're married to A, you can't marry B. But if being married isn't something that attracts you to begin with, not being free to marry B presumably won't bother you greatly.

woodchuck · 30-06-2021 7:39am

We've had to postpone our wedding twice due to the pandemic and I'm starting to get nervy for the following reasons:

1. Inheritance tax. We recently jointly bought a house together. If one of us dies before we're married, the morgage is paid off by the morgage protection policy and the surviving partner inherits the other half of the house, but has to pay inheritance tax. The amount of inheritance tax depends on the cost of the house, it would be ~100k in tax in our case. But if we're married and one of us dies, the morgage is paid off by the morgage protection policy and the other person inherits the house without being stung for a 100k bill. Source: We got legal advice from a solicitor.

2. Tax credits. This is particularly relevant if one person is out of work or takes unpaid maternity leave. Definitely worth taking advantage of, particularly at a time when money is tight. If/when we have a baby, I want to make sure we have that financial protection in place.

For those reasons, I have no intention of postponing our wedding again. We're getting married come hell or high water this year, even if it's just signing a piece of paper with 2 witnesses. I'd obviously love a proper wedding celebration, but also I have my head screwed on about the importance of the legal/financial side of marriage.

Peregrinus · 30-06-2021 7:47am

FWIW, you could solve problem 1 with life insurance - just as you insure for the cost of paying off the mortgage should one of you die, so each of you can insure the other's life for an amount equal to the CAT exposure you would face if the other died. Particularly if this is something you only need temporarily, until you can marry, this won't be expensive insurance to effect.

But problem 2 is not so easily solved. So your solution - basic registry office job now, and a big shindig when pandemic control measures permit, is probably the better course.

woodchuck · 30-06-2021 8:11am

Peregrinus wrote: »

FWIW, you could solve problem 1 with life insurance - just as you insure for the cost of paying off the mortgage should one of you die, so each of you can insure the other's life for an amount equal to the CAT exposure you would face if the other died. Particularly if this is something you only need temporarily, until you can marry, this won't be expensive insurance to effect.

Thanks, we considered that, but there are also other issues like next of kin and inheritance around that (re savings etc), so we'd also need a will and that also doesn't avoid the inheritance tax issue. The most straight forward thing really is to just get married. It's more of a "cover all" compared to getting separate life insurance policies, wills etc, which still don't actually fully solve the issue of inheritance tax.

woodchuck · 30-06-2021 8:15am

Peregrinus wrote: »

But problem 2 is not so easily solved. So your solution - basic registry office job now, and a big shindig when pandemic control measures permit, is probably the better course.

We've a date booked for September, so we're going ahead with that regardless. We never wanted a big shindig anyway. We'd be happy with 25-50 guests. Safety is a bigger priority for us, but we expect all/most of our guests to be vaccinated by then.

A basic registry office job is more difficult these days - I've heard that they're completely booked out for months on end because so many people are going down that route and even those who are booked in are having serious issues still due to the cyber attack.

30-06-2021 8:22am

If anything happens to either of you, where a decision has to be made about medical care, ie. switching off the machines, or waiting until you come out of a coma (worst case scenario, sorry!), next of kin will be your parents, afaik.

Also, if I was a man with kids, I'd be marrying asap - lock in your guardian rights now and make your life easier if anything happens, ie. partner dies, becomes incapacitated, or you split up.

I know both those reasons are in the event of something bad happening and possibly will never happen, but consider a marriage license as a much simpler version of a will, where your rights and assets are shared.
You don't need to have a big day - 2 witnesses and a bit of paperwork and it can be done in 20 minutes (after the wait time - 3 months, I think).

what are the legal and financial benefits to being married.

Comments