Speeding is endemic in this country, what can be done about it?

Jeremy Sproket · 24-06-2021 1:13pm #1

In one year alone, 90,000 speeding fines were issued.
That's an offence of one every five minutes of every hour of every day. A disguising statistic.

There are 2,820,528 driving licences in Ireland so this works out at roughly one offence per 30 people per year. How many are speeding and not being caught?

This rubbishes the claim that they are revenue generators.

Speeders need stricter punishments, including jail time.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-tranom/to2016/dvt/

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sinn-fein-questions-high-profits-made-by-speed-camera-operator-as-gardai-pay-out-e14m-1146154.html

Vestiapx · 24-06-2021 1:14pm

Increase the limits, they are based on cars from the 60s.

Victor · 24-06-2021 1:21pm

Vestiapx wrote: »

Increase the limits, they are based on cars from the 60s.

The thing is, human biology hasn't evolved in that time. Same reaction times, same frailty, same vanity.

Paul_Mc1988 · 24-06-2021 1:24pm

Victor wrote: »

The thing is, human biology hasn't evolved in that time. Same reaction times, same frailty, same vanity.

But the cars are not as frial. Reaction times are dependent on the person and were probably not tested indept in the 70s. The limits are too tight on motorways IMO. Everywhere else they should stay the same.

yoke · 24-06-2021 1:25pm

Victor wrote: »

The thing is, human biology hasn't evolved in that time. Same reaction times, same frailty, same vanity.

Human biology is often not the causative factor it is made out to be in “speeding” accidents, far more often it is the fact that the brakes or handling of the car was insufficient.
Otherwise, every single aeroplane on this planet would be involved in a crash instantly upon takeoff.

Build cars with better brakes, better handling, and increase the speed limits!

Tyrone212 · 24-06-2021 1:26pm

I think eventually cars will be fitted with a device that prevents them from exceeding the speed limit depending on what road they are on and the speed limit for said road. In cases of emergency this can be overridden but it will be followed up with to make sure an actual emergency was underway.

Until then I don't think much of a dent can happen.

24-06-2021 1:27pm

A lot of speed limits are very low on some roads. Often, these are the roads the speed vans are placed.

listermint · 24-06-2021 1:27pm

This thread will be mute as driverless and driver aid technology becomes main stream. So something is being done about it. Now.

timmyntc · 24-06-2021 1:29pm

Speeding isnt the biggest cause of accidents though - its a money racket

Seth Brundle · 24-06-2021 1:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A lot of speed limits are very low on some roads. Often, these are the roads the speed vans are placed.

Examples?
Are you also considering other road users when deciding that the limits are very low?

Seth Brundle · 24-06-2021 1:30pm

timmyntc wrote: »

Speeding isnt the biggest cause of accidents though - its a money racket

Speed increases the likleihood of an incident and makes the incident worse than if it occurred at a lower speed.

timmyntc · 24-06-2021 1:32pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Speed increases the likleihood of an incident and makes the incident worse than if it occurred at a lower speed.

Yes and if we all went 50 everywhere thered be no speeding related crashes - that doesnt mean its a good idea.

As with all things its a trade off. But I think our speed limits err too much on the side of caution.

24-06-2021 1:35pm

Some of those speeders were caught up to 10km/h over and you want jail time?
Whilst there are people getting kicked in the face on the ground and the offender gets a fine or probation.

Uncle Pierre · 24-06-2021 1:36pm

Not a particularly serious suggestion (!), but here goes....

The one thing that encourages drivers to slow down more than any other is when somebody coming in the opposite direction flashes their lights at them.

How about if the Government paid people to drive around randomly flashing at oncoming drivers, whether or not there's actually a speed check ahead?

yoke · 24-06-2021 1:36pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Examples?
Are you also considering other road users when deciding that the limits are very low?

Driving a ferrari at 100kph is probably safer than driving a fiesta at 50.
Yet both have to obey the same speed limits.
The Ferrari can easily dodge other road users who may make a mistake, or a motorbike that skids - the Fiesta can’t.

He/she probably thinks the speed limits are too low based on the car he/she is driving.

24-06-2021 1:37pm

Doesn't help with older cars, but it's my understanding that the EU has passed an agreement that all new cars sold in the union from the year 2022 will be fitted with what they are calling a Intelligent Speed Assistance system (ISA)

Although it's a shame they are allowing drivers to turn off the system if they choose to. It would have been better in my opinion, if they had made it mandatory to be on for the entire journey or only allow you to turn it off for a temporary period.

https://etsc.eu/intelligent-speed-assistance-set-for-launch-on-all-new-eu-vehicle-types-from-2022/

24-06-2021 1:41pm

yoke wrote: »

Driving a ferrari at 100kph is probably safer than driving a fiesta at 50.
Yet both have to obey the same speed limits.
The Ferrari can easily dodge other road users who may make a mistake, or a motorbike that skids - the Fiesta can’t.

He/she probably thinks the speed limits are too low based on the car he/she is driving.

Wow, I've come across some pretty dumb arguments on my time reading Internet forums, but this has to be up there amongst the top. I hope you are taking the piss and not seriously arguing that a Ferrari somehow gives the driver enhanced reflexes and the ability to dodge other traffic.

At the end of the day it's simple physics, the Fiesta travelling at 50 km an hour will have less kinetic energy than a car, even a lightweight one travelling at twice the speed.

Seth Brundle · 24-06-2021 1:42pm

yoke wrote: »

Driving a ferrari at 100kph is probably safer than driving a fiesta at 50.
Yet both have to obey the same speed limits.
The Ferrari can easily dodge other road users who may make a mistake, or a motorbike that skids - the Fiesta can’t.

He/she probably thinks the speed limits are too low based on the car he/she is driving.

What about the person they hit? Would they appreciate the fact that the car was able to go twice as fast as a Fiesta?

cdeb · 24-06-2021 1:44pm

Jeremy Sproket wrote: »

In one year alone, 90,000 speeding fines were issued.
That's an offence of one every five minutes of every hour of every day. A disguising statistic.

It's a meaningless statistic. There are a lot of people. I'd say in a country five times our population, you'd see a person being given a ticket every minute. It's an outrage Joe!

You then say -

Jeremy Sproket wrote: »

There are 2,820,528 driving licences in Ireland so this works out at roughly one offence per 30 people per year.

So hold on - your average driver gets caught speeding twice in their lifetime? That's hardly disgusting now, is it? (I presume this is what you meant as "a disguising statistic" doesn't mean anything)

Of course not all speeding cases are caught, and the real figures are higher. But your post really less flagrant abuse of statistics to lead to a worthwhile discussion.

DriveSkill · 24-06-2021 1:47pm

Jeremy Sproket wrote: »

In one year alone, 90,000 speeding fines were issued.
That's an offence of one every five minutes of every hour of every day. A disguising statistic.

Source ? What year ?

According to other reports approx 197,000 penalty points were issued and even it ALL of those were for speeding and all only 3 points then that is only approx 65,000 and that is 2020 which is higher than 2019.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40243001.html

In any case I think the biggest issue we have is inappropriate speed limits which never get reviewed properly (generally too low). We have lots of cases of <10 km over and in my view the current penalty of 3 points is too much. On the flip side I agree some guy doing 170+ even on a motorway should not just be getting away with just the 3 points. Equally strict enforcement around schools etc. We need a proper graduated system of fines and points not like the completely flawed system that was proposed a few years ago.

24-06-2021 1:50pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Are you also considering other road users when deciding that the limits are very low?

No. I often drive at 80kph on footpaths and through schoolyards because I am completely oblivious to everyone but myself.

:rolleyes:

Seth Brundle · 24-06-2021 1:54pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No. I often drive at 80kph on footpaths and through schoolyards because I am completely oblivious to everyone but myself.

:rolleyes:

Ok so ignoring the silly sarcasm, give us an example of a road whose limit is very low.

Uncle Pierre · 24-06-2021 1:55pm

Not sure a Ferrari versus a Fiesta is the kind of example that the other poster was asking for.

Here's an example of a different type. This stretch of the N59 just outside Letterfrack in Galway has what's probably one of the longest continuous white lines in Ireland, but the speed limit there is 100 km/h:
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5544496,-9.9456096,3a,75y,75.01h,78.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7crT8guPIvhiG8cSnr28VQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Yet this stretch of what used to be the N11 just outside Enniscorthy in Wexford has a speed limit of just 80 km/h:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5398746,-6.5521706,3a,75y,207.26h,68.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss3qd9hYCau4L7kPisnRrRg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I obviously don't know the full breakdown of how many fines are issued where, or for what speeds. But wouldn't surprise if at least a couple of hundred are issued for speeds like 90 to 95 km/h on that road near Enniscorthy, even thought driving at 90 km/h there is surely much safer than driving at the same speed on the other one.

24-06-2021 1:57pm

Since I was bored I decided to work out the difference in kinetic energy between a Ferrari travelling at 100 km/h and a Fiesta travelling at 50 km/h

Ferrari kinetic energy at 100 km/h

604,000 J

Ford Fiesta kinetic energy at 50 km/h

116,000 J

The Ferrari has just over five times the kinetic energy compared with the Fiesta. Or expressed in terms of a percentage. The Ferrari has 420% more kinetic energy than the Fiesta*.

The weights of both cars were taken from Wikipedia and the Ferrari in question is a 420 model.

Uncle Pierre · 24-06-2021 1:59pm

And just to show you can prove anything with statistics, here's a Garda tweet from what I believe to be the last "National Slow Down Day":

https://twitter.com/gardatraffic/status/1375725086657875968?lang=en

Just 994 vehicles detected speeding out of a total of 150,605 checked. That's just 0.66%. Or in other words, at any given time, more than 99% of drivers are obeying the speed limit.

If you just took that stat by itself, it hardly suggests that speeding is endemic?

Calahonda52 · 24-06-2021 2:04pm

Jeremy Sproket wrote: »

In one year alone, 90,000 speeding fines were issued.

of which 89,999 were dismissed/ineffective because
the van had no permission to be there.
It was too well hidden
the record was erased in the pulse system
garda not present in court.
and then nobody brings their licence to be updated
etc

Avon8 · 24-06-2021 2:08pm

Jeremy Sproket wrote: »

In one year alone, 90,000 speeding fines were issued.
That's an offence of one every five minutes of every hour of every day. A disguising statistic.

There are 2,820,528 driving licences in Ireland so this works out at roughly one offence per 30 people per year. How many are speeding and not being caught?

Is this statistic meant to shock us or something? It looks like something to be celebrated. 3.33% of holders in an entire year?

Uncle Pierre · 24-06-2021 2:12pm

Finally, just anecdotally:

Happened to drive to Dublin and back yesterday from where I live in North Wexford, for the first time in ages. It's motorway most of the way to the Loughlinstown Roundabout.

I had cruise control set to 120 km/h for the motorway and 100 km/h for the stretches were the lower limit applies (and yes, before anybody asks, I slowed down while going through Kilmac too!

)

I'd say that in the whole way there and back, no more than four or five vehicles overtook me, of what must have been hundreds I saw altogether. This also suggests that the overwhelming majority of drivers stick to the limit or drive underneath it.

Am not denying there's a problem with small minority driving at excessive speeds, but that's a different thing to claiming that speeding is endemic.

24-06-2021 2:18pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Ok so ignoring the silly sarcasm, give us an example of a road whose limit is very low.

I could give several examples, but I honestly am not wasting the time, as no matter what I supply you'll respond with "that's not low at all" or similar.

Any 30kph road outside of a house estate is a good starting point, though.

magicbastarder · 24-06-2021 2:26pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Just 994 vehicles detected speeding out of a total of 150,605 checked. That's just 0.66%. Or in other words, at any given time, more than 99% of drivers are obeying the speed limit.

If you just took that stat by itself, it hardly suggests that speeding is endemic?

but what if i don't believe that stat? and i don't, not for a second. did you believe the gardai when it came to the number of breathalyser tests they 'performed'?

Seth Brundle · 24-06-2021 2:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I could give several examples, but I honestly am not wasting the time, as no matter what I supply you'll respond with "that's not low at all" or similar.

Any 30kph road outside of a house estate is a good starting point, though.

Aah, don't go off in a huff because I asked you a tough question.
Surely you can tell us a particular road and we can debate your point like adults?

Speeding is endemic in this country, what can be done about it?

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