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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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    #5042
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    For 65% of the public no or almost no threat (because herd immunity would mean little or no threat) wouldn't be enough to get rid of restrictions.

    Do you think there should be any restrictions, or any justification for them, at the moment in Ireland based on the present data? Not about potential variants. Just purely based on the number of hospitalisations in a population of 4 and a half million.

    Sorry, but couldn't decode what your answer to the question was there.

    Do you think that if there are continuing restrictions it will be due to the pandemic still being a risk to the population or not?


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    #5043
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    robinph wrote: »
    Sorry, but couldn't decode what your answer to the question was there.

    Do you think that if there are continuing restrictions it will be due to the pandemic still being a risk to the population or not?

    No. It will be because 65% of the public want restrictions to continue. And because there'll be no pressure put on the government to repeal the laws and the 'safety at all costs' society won't disappear. It's just not realistic to believe it will. But I'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong. I don't really care either way. The damage has been done.


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    #5044
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No. It will be because 65% of the public want restrictions to continue. And because there'll be no pressure put on the government to repeal the laws and the 'safety at all costs' society won't disappear. It's just not realistic to believe it will. But I'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong. I don't really care either way. The damage has been done.

    So you think that the population will deliberately ask for laws to be kept in place when the pandemic has clearly departed? The population will want additional restrictions to stay in place when clearly not needed and once other countries have dropped those same restrictions?

    I think you are reading way too much into the results of that survey you are quoting. They were not saying that they want permanent restrictions in place, it's more that they don't expect things to suddenly switch back to February 2020 way of doing things overnight and it will take a while for some things to return to normal.


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    #5045
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    robinph wrote: »
    So you think that the population will deliberately ask for laws to be kept in place when the pandemic has clearly departed? The population will want additional restrictions to stay in place when clearly not needed and once other countries have dropped those same restrictions?

    I think you are reading way too much into the results of that survey you are quoting. They were not saying that they want permanent restrictions in place, it's more that they don't expect things to suddenly switch back to February 2020 way of doing things overnight and it will take a while for some things to return to normal.

    I do because I believe that most people want to live in a zero risk society. Or at least a zero covid risk society. One shouldn't underestimate how much psychological damage has been done to people in 18 months. It used to be the case that every thing was permitted unless prohibited by law. Now it's nothing is allowed unless permitted by law.

    But maybe I am reading too much into it. I just don't understand why herd immunity being achieved wouldn't mean life resuming as normal for 65% of the population.


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    #5046
    eddie73
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭eddie73


    Gortanna wrote: »
    65% want it to continue even after most people have been vaccinated and herd immunity has therefore been achieved: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-times-poll-public-split-on-pace-of-lifting-covid-19-restrictions-1.4596630


    I didn't read this until now. I find it hard to believe this is the case, but there you are. Anyway, it probably would take a red see styled poll to get a more accurate reading.


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    #5047
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,164 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Why would 65% of people want restrictions kept in place once we reach herd immunity?
    Is that global or Irish herd immunity?


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    #5048
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Why would 65% of people want restrictions kept in place once we reach herd immunity?
    Is that global or Irish herd immunity?

    Herd immunity in Ireland.


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    #5049
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eddie73 wrote: »
    I didn't read this until now. I find it hard to believe this is the case, but there you are. Anyway, it probably would take a red see styled poll to get a more accurate reading.

    I'm not particularly surprised by the results of that poll. Masks are popular and signs are everywhere telling people to wear one and about how they keep everyone safe.

    In Moscow, those who don't get vaccinated are set to be refused routine medical treatment: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/18/moscow-hospitals-to-limit-treatment-to-vaccinated-patients-a74258

    Similar noises are being made in the UK: https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2021/06/18/delingpole-no-jab-no-nhs-treatment-suits-me-just-fine/

    I think something similar will happen in Ireland.


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    #5050
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,482 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Gortanna wrote: »
    Ireland, and possibly the UK. We'll known on the 19th of July. If restrictions aren't aren't scrapped in the UK, or maybe it'd be more accurate to say England, on the 19th then I don't see how they could ever be scrapped. Because covid isn't going away.

    Nothing can be extrapolated from July 19th as the UK will not have reached herd immunity by then, you have admitted this is the criteria to drop mask wearing yet are holding the UK to a different standard, why are you doing that? I would also argue that the poll is for "most people" not "herd immunity" and we would see a different answer to the latter statement.

    Israel reached herd immunity and dropped the mask wearing requirement, other countries will follow suit as they reach that milestone themselves.

    Are you getting vaccinated in order to reach the herd immunity milestone?


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    #5051
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    astrofool wrote: »
    Nothing can be extrapolated from July 19th as the UK will not have reached herd immunity by then, you have admitted this is the criteria to drop mask wearing yet are holding the UK to a different standard, why are you doing that? I would also argue that the poll is for "most people" not "herd immunity" and we would see a different answer to the latter statement.

    Israel reached herd immunity and dropped the mask wearing requirement, other countries will follow suit as they reach that milestone themselves.

    Are you getting vaccinated in order to reach the herd immunity milestone?

    I wonder how the UK hasn't reached herd immunity yet. I read recently that 8 out of 10 adults have antibodies. If children have to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity then restrictions will drag on.

    Kind of dropped it. Still required on planes and in certain settings if unvaccinated.


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    #5052
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Dan Andrews wants to be able to lockdown the state over and over again. It's not a claim, it's happening. Why would lockdowns go away? They're very popular. Poll after poll tells us they are.
    You haven't answered my question.
    Why aren't you guys able to give a straight answer?

    Why does the government want to implement lockouts randomly for no reason?


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    #5053
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,482 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I wonder how the UK hasn't reached herd immunity yet. I read recently that 8 out of 10 adults have antibodies. If children have to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity then restrictions will drag on.

    Kind of dropped it. Still required on planes and in certain settings if unvaccinated.

    You answered precisely 0 questions there.

    At least you seem to have admitted in a round about way that the July 19th date means nothing.


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    #5054
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,800 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Gortanna wrote: »
    We've been living in a 'safety above all else' society for the past 18 months.

    You can't come up with a conspiracy to explain why measures will be permanent, so instead you've created this silly narrative that the public/government "want" the measures permanently.

    You cherry-pick examples, distort them, then ignore any posters pointing out the glaring faults

    Just the latest evolution of distilled nonsense on this thread


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    #5055
    buzzerxx
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭buzzerxx


    No further explanations required.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=538903794134113&set=a.114153246609172


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    #5056
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    buzzerxx wrote: »
    No further explanations required.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=538903794134113&set=a.114153246609172
    No, it's going to require a bit of explanation I think.

    Please explain what your point is. What do you believe this picture shows and indicates.

    Don't just dump a facebook link and parrot opinions told to you by facebooks. Express your own.

    Could you also maybe explain what measures you believe are going to be permanent?

    We've now crossed over 5000 posts and not a single measure has been shown to be permanent and no one seems willing to explain which might be and why.


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    #5057
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,800 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Gortanna wrote: »
    Look at all the YouGov polls. Large majorities support lockdowns and have consistently supported them. Same in Ireland.

    If something is consistently supported then it's popular.

    No.

    It's a choice between two evils. Lockdown vs letting the disease run rampant.

    Of the two, people have sided with lockdown. It has nothing to do with "popularity" and everything to do with choosing the least worst option.


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    #5058
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,800 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    King Mob wrote: »

    We've now crossed over 5000 posts and not a single measure has been shown to be permanent and no one seems willing to explain which might be and why.

    This thread has gone from: "measures will be permanent because Covid is all a ploy to install global Communism", all the way down to: "it'll be permanent because wearing masks and not seeing your family is "popular" among people and the government"


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    #5059
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    buzzerxx wrote: »
    No further explanations required.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=538903794134113&set=a.114153246609172

    "Don't be a boiling frog, top hats will become permanent. "

    Is that correct?


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    #5060
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    You can't come up with a conspiracy to explain why measures will be permanent, so instead you've created this silly narrative that the public/government "want" the measures permanently.

    You cherry-pick examples, distort them, then ignore any posters pointing out the glaring faults

    Just the latest evolution of distilled nonsense on this thread

    65% of the public want mask wearing to continue indefinitely. That's what the majority wants. The surprising thing for me is that people are surprised by that. I'm surprised it's not higher. But, as I said, I don't care. The damage has been done. I don't know why it's odd to say that they're popular. One sees people wearing them while alone in their car, while alone in the countryside. I don't know why it's such a bad thing for them to be popular. They clearly are popular.

    I'm more concerned about a cyber attack. The WEF is about to run a simulation of one. The last simulation they were involved in, Event 201, which was a simulation of a coronavirus pandemic, was followed by a coronavirus pandemic. Dave Cullen has a good video on Bitchute about the recent cyber attacks.


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    #5061
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Gortanna wrote: »
    65% of the public want mask wearing to continue indefinitely. .
    That's not true though.

    You keep changing what you believe is happening.

    You've gone from the government secretly plotting to make masks permenant.
    Now, after you failed to explain why they wanted to do this, you've changed your reality to claim that the government is only doing what the population want.

    Now of course, if we ask you why you believe all these people want masks to be permanent, you'll avoid the question, run away and change your mind when you find something new on twitter.

    It even seems that you're changing away from Covid conspiracies and inventing new ones about cyber attacks.
    Is this because the covid conspiracy theories have completely failed, or did you just get bored with them?


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    #5062
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,800 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Gortanna wrote: »
    65% of the public want mask wearing to continue indefinitely. That's what the majority wants.

    Horse****.

    Here is the poll
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-times-poll-public-split-on-pace-of-lifting-covid-19-restrictions-1.4596630

    image.png

    Note the question, "which of the following is closest to your view?". When offered those two choices, I am absolutely in favour of continuing certain precautions after most people have been vaccinated - that does not mean I am in favour of continuing them permanently.

    So why are you disingenuously trying to twist the results to infer that people do?


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    #5063
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I am absolutely in favour of continuing certain precautions after most people have been vaccinated - that does not mean I am in favour of continuing them permanently.

    So why are you disingenuously trying to twist the results to infer that people do?
    But then what other straw can conspiracy theorists grasp?


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    #5064
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,800 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    King Mob wrote: »
    But then what other straw can conspiracy theorists grasp?

    Forgetting what words mean, seeing things in photos that aren't there, changing the conspiracy 10 times - seen it all before. People with irrational beliefs will go to any and all lengths to validate those beliefs.


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    #5065
    Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Essien


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    People with irrational beliefs will go to any and all lengths to validate those beliefs.

    While this is 100% correct in most cases, do conspiracy theorists even have beliefs anymore?

    All I can see is a lot of incoherent rambling about how every one else's beliefs are wrong. Yet none of them are willing to risk sharing their own beliefs.


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    #5066
    Tired332
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Tired332


    buzzerxx wrote: »
    No further explanations required.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=538903794134113&set=a.114153246609172

    Absolute scumbags not giving a **** about society and the vulnerable people. The cases and hospitalizations will be through the roof !!! How could they be so selfish. . Stop their payments that will show em , not one mask between them or any social distancing .. are they not worried about this new transmissable variant called delta that could kill all our young people


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    #5067
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Gortanna wrote: »
    65% of the public want mask wearing to continue indefinitely. That's what the majority wants.
    The surprising thing for me is that people are surprised by that. I'm surprised it's not higher.

    But you're leaving out a lot of context here, and misrepresenting reality.
    You make it sound like people like wearing masks, and 65% want to wear them indefinitely.

    The reality is that it's likely 0% like wearing them, and 0% want to wear them indefinitely,
    However 65% of respondents think that once most people are vaccinated some precautions
    should remain, and one of those precautions is masks in shops.

    This is clearly in the context of covid still circulating,
    and until we see what happens once most are vaccinated.
    I personally agree with this, ie. proceeding with caution.

    I would guess you think there is something wrong with 65% thinking that
    because you don't think the virus is a threat at all?

    In that regard, I saw first hand one small business that had to close in May,
    due everyone catching covid, with one person ending up in hospital.
    That's not normal for May, and even in January that would not be expected.
    But you seem to think that it would be ok for the virus to be let loose without restraint!
    Gortanna wrote: »
    But, as I said, I don't care. The damage has been done.
    What damage has been done?
    And who do you think is responsible for the damage?
    Gortanna wrote: »
    I'm more concerned about a cyber attack. The WEF is about to run a simulation of one.
    The last simulation they were involved in, Event 201,
    which was a simulation of a coronavirus pandemic, was followed by a coronavirus pandemic.
    Dave Cullen has a good video on Bitchute about the recent cyber attacks.

    When you say you're concerned about a cyber attack, are you concerned about a future one,
    or the one we've just had on the HSE,
    or the cyber attacks that have been happening regularly around the world for many years?

    What does Dave Cullen say in his video about the recent cyber attacks?


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    #5068
    brianhere
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭brianhere


    Anyway they said it at last, its official now. When a senior official at SAGE, the UK equivalent of NPHET, Professor Susan Michie, was asked how long the changes will remain, like social distancing and masks etc, she said:
    "I think forever, to some extent..."
    ( https://www.bitchute.com/video/FFCb7pFcISVy/ 1:05.)
    You see the clue is that she is also the Director of The Centre for Behaviour Change, and that's what its all about: Changing the patterns of society to limit social discourse in a way that isolates people and makes them more vulnerable to state diktat.

    http://www.orwellianireland.com



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    #5069
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,800 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    brianhere wrote: »
    Anyway they said it at last, its official now. When a senior official at SAGE, the UK equivalent of NPHET, Professor Susan Michie, was asked how long the changes will remain, like social distancing and masks etc, she said:

    You see the clue is that she is also the Director of The Centre for Behaviour Change, and that's what its all about: Changing the patterns of society to limit social discourse in a way that isolates people and makes them more vulnerable to state diktat.

    Translation:

    It's official, someone on an advisory council said “I think forever, to some extent.” That's it, proof these measures were always meant to be permanent. It's as good as legislation passed. And of course it was their plan all along, to breed compliance, now we finally have confirmation of it, Chinese social credit system next followed by the internment camps. Nothing to do with my personal belief that Communism is taking over, visit my blog about it.


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    #5070
    brianhere
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭brianhere


    But its a very significant and deliberate statement, she said 'forever', much to the surprise of the interviewer actually and then elaborated on it, talking about how going forward you will leave the house with your keys and your bits and bobs and your mask 'forever'. And as I said, she is a senior official in SAGE who are the people running the show in the UK in the way that NPHET have become our dictators in Ireland over the past 18 months. She personally even convened the sub group of SAGE called the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Behaviour group.

    http://www.orwellianireland.com



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    #5071
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    brianhere wrote: »
    ... and then elaborated on it, talking about how going forward you will leave the house with your keys and your bits and bobs and your mask 'forever'....

    Or how people always leave the house carrying their mobile phone these days, or how some people would always carry an umbrella if it looks like it might rain, or how in days gone by no respectable citizen would leave the house without wearing their hat or having a hanky in their pocket.

    So not a restriction, not permanent, not going to be a requirement to carry a mask about your person, and once time passes people will stop bothering and whatever we carry on us leaving the house will change to some other combination of items.


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