Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

VinLieger wrote: »

How are they this blind that they cannot understand this only does more to hurt them?

"Never interrupt your opponent when they're making a mistake..... or when they're pouring petrol on a fire of their own making!

Seriously I was laughing when i heard that they'd kicked Poots to the kerb after less than a month because they just keep deluding themselves into thinking that incoherent threats and delusional threats of riots incited by THEM is going to get them their own way.

The only thing more hillarious I could hear tonight is if Boris turned around and threatened them with a Border Poll if they kept it up as a counter argument against them.

Infini wrote: »

"Never interrupt your opponent when they're making a mistake..... or when they're pouring petrol on a fire of their own making!

Seriously I was laughing when i heard that they'd kicked Poots to the kerb after less than a month because they just keep deluding themselves into thinking that incoherent threats and delusional threats of riots incited by THEM is going to get them their own way.

The only thing more hillarious I could hear tonight is if Boris turned around and threatened them with a Border Poll if they kept it up as a counter argument against them.

Or Sammy Wilson getting the job!

https://twitter.com/dmcbfs/status/1405624037829644289

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Or Sammy Wilson getting the job!

https://twitter.com/dmcbfs/status/1405624037829644289

Please please please let it be Sammy.

If we have to listen to their drivel it might as well be entertaining!!

RobMc59 wrote: »

If countries like the US and Japan for example have a different approach to privacy laws,why is it wrong?

Have you ever experienced US "privacy" laws? I think it's very, very wrong that I can find out more about friends of friends of Americans I've never spoken to than about my real world European neighbours down the lane.

As for the EU insisting that all member states "fall into line", that's another peculiarly British misconception. The EU lays down (or attempts to lay down) minimum standards for all member states. There's rarely anything stopping individual members from enacting tougher/better rules - e.g. the privacy laws in Germany are much stricter than in France or Ireland (try finding Google Streetview info for some addresses of interest - there are huge swathes of the country where the images are not available).

RobMc59 wrote: »

There are a lot of British people unhappy about brexit.
Having said that,some things about the way the EU operates,demanding all members fall into line and follow brussels lead is disturbing and certainly one of the concerns I`ve always had. The discussion earlier today regarding the trade deal between the UK and Japan is an example of `EU or nothing`attitude from many posters here.If countries like the US and Japan for example have a different approach to privacy laws,why is it wrong? Just because it differs from EU privacy laws is`nt a good enough reason imo,whose to say the EU approach is`nt OTT?

Do you understand why the expect members to implement agreed rules and regulations? And why they push for 3rd countries to adopt the same?

Or do you think that it just the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels do it for fun?

How can you have free trade and open borders without agreed rules? It couldn't possibly work.

What level of rules setting do you think is right? County Council level? Country, province? Does a country wide regulation make sense? What about within a trade agreement?

RobMc59 wrote: »

There are a lot of British people unhappy about brexit.
Having said that,some things about the way the EU operates,demanding all members fall into line and follow brussels lead is disturbing and certainly one of the concerns I`ve always had.

Heaven forbid that member states abide by the very rules that they themselves agreed to not only abide by but had a say in crafting too. The UK _was_ Brussels, proverbially speaking. Honestly, this is what-is-the-EU-and-how-does-it-work 101 level stuff Rob.

RobMc59 wrote: »

There are a lot of British people unhappy about brexit.
Having said that,some things about the way the EU operates,demanding all members fall into line and follow brussels lead is disturbing and certainly one of the concerns I`ve always had. The discussion earlier today regarding the trade deal between the UK and Japan is an example of `EU or nothing`attitude from many posters here.If countries like the US and Japan for example have a different approach to privacy laws,why is it wrong? Just because it differs from EU privacy laws is`nt a good enough reason imo,whose to say the EU approach is`nt OTT?

Do you mean like how countries had to fall in line and drop roaming charges? Nasty EU, doing good for you and me. How about ensuring airlines could not palm you off if their flight is delayed? How dare they tell the UK to implement these rules when they were doing it at the time, right? You are on slippery territory when you make these pronouncements without having the full picture and seem to parrot the Brexit cheering media talking points.

As for our position on data privacy, do you think the EU standards are too lax and do you agree it should be easier for those interested in gaining your information to get it? Also, just out of interest, are you backing out of the NHS sharing your data?

RobMc59 wrote: »

There are a lot of British people unhappy about brexit.
Having said that,some things about the way the EU operates,demanding all members fall into line and follow brussels lead is disturbing and certainly one of the concerns I`ve always had. The discussion earlier today regarding the trade deal between the UK and Japan is an example of `EU or nothing`attitude from many posters here.If countries like the US and Japan for example have a different approach to privacy laws,why is it wrong? Just because it differs from EU privacy laws is`nt a good enough reason imo,whose to say the EU approach is`nt OTT?

Rob what's your opinion of Jacob Rees Mogg telling the DUP they either need to pass the ILA or Westminster will do it for them because that's how the United Kingdom works? How is that different to your problem with the EU demanding all members fall in line and follow Brussels lead?

RobMc59 wrote: »

I hoped to provide a link suggesting EU privacy laws hinder the fight against terrorism but unfortunately the article by bloomsberg is paywalled.

You probably meant this one (not paywalled for me) which, as you point out, is only an opinion - specifially the opinion of someone who would like access to everyone's personal data.

This has nothing to do with Brexit; it's more akin to the infamous 2nd Amendment argument in the US "to kill a bad guy with a gun, you need a good guy with a gun." In other words, let's avoid dealing with the root cause and just treat everyone as an armed suspected terrorist.

And yet there are howls of protest when we apply that logic to the import of food and other agricultural products from the very same regions that apply this kind of guilty-till-proven-innocent attitude.

Nody wrote: »

I'll do something unusual for me in regards to Rob but I honestly don't think Rob is a Brexiteer exactly as he says. While I do disagree with Rob on quite a few topics as shown in this thread I think he's looking at it from a UK perspective of "Well we're here and have to do the best of it". He's clearly articulate and informed enough to know being in EU had preferable agreements (and has stated as much several times) but try to deal with the hand given, UK (in what ever form it may be at the time) is not rejoining EU any time soon. I simply think that he get biased sources tilted one way in the same way a lot of us are tilted in the other direction and in the same way we read things into what Boris and his Brexit cabal say/do/claim (and speculate/state their reasons) he's doing from the "other side" of the argument of EU actions.

I agree with reading Rob's posts he is more patriotic than a brexiteer.

With regard to the perspective of "having to do the best of it".

That should be the UK take on it but what if feels to the rest of us the attitude is "we've done what we wanted and everyone else has to deal with it and we don't really care how it impacts any of you".

And it's this attitude coming from the Tory government that is forming peoples attitude to the UK, especially when through their Brexit process they kept using the "will of the people" defence, in other words it's the UK people that feel this way towards the EU and we, the Tory government, are just giving the UK people what they want.

Kate (Baroness) Hoey is saying that "The next logical step" for the Republic of Ireland to take would be to leave the EU in the near future.

She made the comments on today's (June 18th) Chopper's Politics podcast hosted by the Daily Telegraph's chief political correspondent Chris "Chopper" Hope.

You can download and/or listen to the whole thing here (she says it after about 30 mins 20 seconds).

She claims there is a "Big debate going on" in Ireland now about leaving the EU "Now that they have become a contributor".

Is there really a big debate going on, underground, that we don't hear about because of the (HISS BOOO) "Main Stream Media" or is this just wishful thinking from increasingly desperate Brexiteers?

Maybe they have spent all their time talking to a small group of people, eg Ray Bassett the doughty voice of Irish Euroscepticism who has been quoted or mentioned in the Daily Express 88 times in the five years since the Brexit referendum, according to a detailed Google Search of that paper's site. That's once in every 3 weeks on average, sustained over half a decade which is quite a tally for a "retired Irish diplomat". They must REALLY like what he has to say!!

I think anyone with a knowledge of Irish history (perfunctory or detailed) who compares this country's performance and conditions since joining the EEC/EC/EU with its fate under British administration would NEVER want to return to a relationship with Britain where that country held the whip hand. They'd only get a taste for using it.

But still, if there's a debate, I'd love to participate. Where is it taking place and who are the Irexiteers? (Apart from Gemma, John and Herman the German)

Snickers Man wrote: »

Kate (Baroness) Hoey is saying that "The next logical step" for the Republic of Ireland to take would be to leave the EU in the near future.

She made the comments on today's (June 18th) Chopper's Politics podcast hosted by the Daily Telegraph's chief political correspondent Chris "Chopper" Hope.

You can download and/or listen to the whole thing here (she says it after about 30 mins 20 seconds).

She claims there is a "Big debate going on" in Ireland now about leaving the EU "Now that they have become a contributor".

Is there really a big debate going on, underground, that we don't hear about because of the (HISS BOOO) "Main Stream Media" or is this just wishful thinking from increasingly desperate Brexiteers?

Maybe they have spent all their time talking to a small group of people, eg Ray Bassett the doughty voice of Irish Euroscepticism who has been quoted or mentioned in the Daily Express 88 times in the five years since the Brexit referendum, according to a detailed Google Search of that paper's site. That's once in every 3 weeks on average, sustained over half a decade which is quite a tally for a "retired Irish diplomat". They must REALLY like what he has to say!!

I think anyone with a knowledge of Irish history (perfunctory or detailed) who compares this country's performance and conditions since joining the EEC/EC/EU with its fate under British administration would NEVER want to return to a relationship with Britain where that country held the whip hand. They'd only get a taste for using it.

But still, if there's a debate, I'd love to participate. Where is it taking place and who are the Irexiteers? (Apart from Gemma, John and Herman the German)

Hoey is not mistaken. She is lying.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Hoey is not mistaken. She is lying.

The nutty thing about her argument is that most Eurosceptics across the continent have no desire to smash the relationship with Europe. To SNIP. No insults. like her and her pal Farage, if you have some issues with EU membership, your first course of action should be to tell them to F off and that you are leaving the union and the single market forever.

It would be like having an argument with your wife over who is drying the dishes and then filing for divorce.