KBC exiting Ireland

silver2020 · 14-05-2021 3:17pm

Bob24 wrote: »

The new lenders are small operations which are in it for profits. So they have no incentive massively reduce rates and they'll undercut retail banks just enough to acquire customers at a rate they can support. And I suspect they will never be allow to grab any significant share of the market (if it comes to a point whereby they are becoming too large, I would expect offers will be made which their owners can't refuse, as was done with UB and KBC).

Avant is part of BankInter of Spain with assets of €90 Billion
Finance Ireland is funded by M&G investments - parent of Prudential Insurance and has over €400 billion under investment.
Dillosk are also backed by two large investment houses.

Basically Avant and Finance Ireland have more firing power than Bank of Ireland and AIB. They may be small players here, but backed by giants.

Bob24 · 14-05-2021 3:43pm

silver2020 wrote: »

Basically Avant and Finance Ireland have more firing power than Bank of Ireland and AIB. They may be small players here, but backed by giants.

Yes I am talking about their Irish operations which are currently limited and how much they could grow.

On a side note, Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland are also both subsidiaries of very large foreign banks (NatWest Group and KBC Group). But they were not allowed to grow above a certain size (NatWest and KBC might be larger than AIB and BOI, but once Irish banks came to them with a fat cheque to kindly leave the Irish market alone, both accepted the offer).

silver2020 · 14-05-2021 4:16pm

Bob24 wrote: »

Yes I am talking about their Irish operations which are currently limited and how much they could grow.

On a side note, Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland are also both subsidiaries of very large foreign banks (NatWest Group and KBC Group). But they were not allowed to grow above a certain size (NatWest and KBC might be larger than AIB and BOI, but once Irish banks came to them with a fat cheque to kindly leave the Irish market alone, both accepted the offer).

Ulster is leaving because it simply could not see a long term profitable future and the Irish business is tiny in comparison to its main business. It was a pain in their backside and needed huge IT investment and had too many legacy issues

KBC are profitable, but again, because the parent is so big, KBC is not of strategic importance, so when an offer came along they saw it as an opportunity.

KBC's exit is opportunistic, Ulster's was strategic.

Bankinter is big, but not a giant, so a good Irish business (they manage credit cards and anpost loans too) would be a decent part of their overall business.

We'll wait and see, but the guys that manage my pension think these 3 will become long term main players in the market.

It also helps that these non-bank lenders don't have the same capital reserve requirements as the retail banks.

Back in 2019, it was said that this is what the market needed - now it's getting it and the customer is winning
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/non-bank-mortgages-key-to-cutting-irish-interest-rates-study-finds-1.3820799

Cabaal · 19-05-2021 7:19am

Decided I might as well get it over and done with, moving from KBC this week.
I have all but one thing switched over to new bank.

Shame to leave KBC as I've been happy with them since about 2018 after awful issues with Ulster

Mr Velo · 19-05-2021 7:42am

Cabaal wrote: »

Decided I might as well get it over and done with, moving from KBC this week.
I have all but one thing switched over to new bank.

Shame to leave KBC as I've been happy with them since about 2018 after awful issues with Ulster

What bank have you chosen to move to?

Cabaal · 19-05-2021 11:19am

Mr Velo wrote: »

What bank have you chosen to move to?

N26,
I've had an account with them since 2018 as a backup when traveling so I've now moved proper to it.

I don't need cheque's, cash lodgements or overdrafts. N26 unlike Revolut is of course a proper bank license wise so thats why I'm with it, also the N26 app is actually decent.

bonjurkes · 19-05-2021 11:53am

The problem with fintech banking is, for whatever reason, they have rights to froze your assets while they do investigation. This can be legit case, or something triggered by their internal system (their AI messing up and misflagging you). Then you will have to sit tight and wait till they come back to you. There is no one to discuss the matters with, as customer service will keep saying there is nothing they can do.

This kind of thing never happened to me with traditional banks but there is possibility with fintech banks. Especially the part that there is no human you can actually discuss your situation what worries me the most. Just visit N26 or Revolut subs on reddit and there is plenty of people having this issue. That's why I am not willing to store all my cash in some fintech bank. I can lose my monthly salary but no way I will keep my all savings there.

The J Stands for Jay · 19-05-2021 12:02pm

bonjurkes wrote: »

The problem with fintech banking is, for whatever reason, they have rights to froze your assets while they do investigation. This can be legit case, or something triggered by their internal system (their AI messing up and misflagging you). Then you will have to sit tight and wait till they come back to you. There is no one to discuss the matters with, as customer service will keep saying there is nothing they can do.

This kind of thing never happened to me with traditional banks but there is possibility with fintech banks. Especially the part that there is no human you can actually discuss your situation what worries me the most. Just visit N26 or Revolut subs on reddit and there is plenty of people having this issue. That's why I am not willing to store all my cash in some fintech bank. I can lose my monthly salary but no way I will keep my all savings there.

The regulations say that if your account has been frozen, they can't tell you why and they can't discuss it with you. The real question is whether the fintechs are flagging accounts too easily, or if the trad banks are too lax.

Cabaal · 19-05-2021 12:44pm

I certainly don't plan on keeping all my savings on N26 so I'm not worried.

I would urge caution of perhaps just how many people might be actually doing dodgy stuff via N26 accounts which is causing them to be legit flagged, of course if these same people post online they'll never want to admit what they've done is dodgy

Bob24 · 19-05-2021 1:17pm

McGaggs wrote: »

The regulations say that if your account has been frozen, they can't tell you why and they can't discuss it with you. The real question is whether the fintechs are flagging accounts too easily, or if the trad banks are too lax.

Agree. I think it is pretty easy to answer the question though.

Basically it is a trade-off between how the want to spend in this and the corresponding fraud detection/review capabilities. I.e. fintechs tend to had fewer staff and spend less on this, leading to more false positives and longer review times (if their capability to inquire about potential cases is lower, the safe choice is to put any account which was flagged as potentially problematic on hold until an actual person can look into it, whereas in a traditional bank the account might have been reviewed and cleared immediately).

Sam W · 19-05-2021 5:07pm

bonjurkes wrote: »

The problem with fintech banking is, for whatever reason, they have rights to froze your assets while they do investigation. This can be legit case, or something triggered by their internal system (their AI messing up and misflagging you). Then you will have to sit tight and wait till they come back to you. There is no one to discuss the matters with, as customer service will keep saying there is nothing they can do.

This kind of thing never happened to me with traditional banks but there is possibility with fintech banks. Especially the part that there is no human you can actually discuss your situation what worries me the most. Just visit N26 or Revolut subs on reddit and there is plenty of people having this issue. That's why I am not willing to store all my cash in some fintech bank. I can lose my monthly salary but no way I will keep my all savings there.

Absolutely spot on. N26 froze some of my assets and there was never any proper investigation for 2 months despite countless calls, emails, chats and letters.

I would be left with no cash flow for my business for 2 months had I got no other accounts.

The biggest problem is that such ‘digitised’ banks are unreachable at all (even though they claim they have 24/7 support) when an issue needs a bit of expertise knowledge. I would be able to just walk into an AIB branch and ask to talk to an account manager, or make a complaint on their online platform which someone will be able to discuss the case with me within a day or two. With a foreign and digital bank like N26, the only thing you could do is to wait and hope you still have cash left to feed yourself and your family whilst they play their wait game.

unkel · 26-05-2021 12:49am

Cabaal wrote: »

Decided I might as well get it over and done with, moving from KBC this week.
I have all but one thing switched over to new bank.

Shame to leave KBC as I've been happy with them since about 2018 after awful issues with Ulster

Cabaal wrote: »

N26,
I've had an account with them since 2018 as a backup when traveling so I've now moved proper to it.

I don't need cheque's, cash lodgements or overdrafts. N26 unlike Revolut is of course a proper bank license wise so thats why I'm with it, also the N26 app is actually decent.

+1

Getting my finger out whenever I have a bit of time in the next few days. Have exactly the same history as yourself and decided this evening that I will make N26 my main current account (and also keep using Revolut exactly like I am using it now)

unkel · 26-05-2021 3:53pm

Done now. Was not as bad as when I switched to KBC in early 2018, but Jaysus some of people have no idea that you should be able to use an IBAN that doesn't start with "IE" these days :rolleyes:

Cabaal · 27-05-2021 11:37am

unkel wrote: »

Done now. Was not as bad as when I switched to KBC in early 2018, but Jaysus some of people have no idea that you should be able to use an IBAN that doesn't start with "IE" these days :rolleyes:

The only problem I've had so far is Vodafone's website wouldn't take it,
Its funny cause I expected my local credit union to be an issue but it was no problem at all!

unkel · 27-05-2021 12:01pm

Yeah similar here. One of the easiest sites was the Revenue Commissioners. Wasn't expecting that. Easy online job, same with the likes of GoMo and Energia. Most others required a phone call, one (Flogas) required me to fill in a direct debit paper form and return it to them.

krissovo · 29-05-2021 11:23am

I am looking at leaving KBC and N26 looks good but I do make a few annual large transactions. With KBC if I exceeded their limits I could go to the hub show ID an then complete the transaction. I have 2 scenarios bank transfers of >€20k, in KBC I need to goto the branch and in N26 this looks unlimited. The 2nd is card transactions >€5k which is the limit for for N26, how do I get around this?

Sam W · 29-05-2021 12:43pm

krissovo wrote: »

I am looking at leaving KBC and N26 looks good but I do make a few annual large transactions. With KBC if I exceeded their limits I could go to the hub show ID an then complete the transaction. I have 2 scenarios bank transfers of >€20k, in KBC I need to goto the branch and in N26 this looks unlimited. The 2nd is card transactions >€5k which is the limit for for N26, how do I get around this?

You can’t. The limits in the app are already the highest they can grant.

krissovo · 29-05-2021 12:52pm

Sam W wrote: »

You can’t. The limits in the app are already the highest they can grant.

Thanks, looks like I will have to stay and transfer over to our BOI overlords :mad:

unkel · 29-05-2021 1:42pm

krissovo wrote: »

Thanks, looks like I will have to stay and transfer over to our BOI overlords :mad:

Is there no way around it? I seem to remember that with Revolut you could pre-arrange larger transfers. I paid for my Tesla with Revolut. I presume you have Revolut too? My plan is to keep using that for its unique benefits

Rock Steady Edy · 29-05-2021 5:00pm

Sam W wrote: »

Absolutely spot on. N26 froze some of my assets and there was never any proper investigation for 2 months despite countless calls, emails, chats and letters.

I would be left with no cash flow for my business for 2 months had I got no other accounts.

The biggest problem is that such ‘digitised’ banks are unreachable at all (even though they claim they have 24/7 support) when an issue needs a bit of expertise knowledge. I would be able to just walk into an AIB branch and ask to talk to an account manager, or make a complaint on their online platform which someone will be able to discuss the case with me within a day or two. With a foreign and digital bank like N26, the only thing you could do is to wait and hope you still have cash left to feed yourself and your family whilst they play their wait game.

This review has completely put me off ever opening a digitised non-Irish based bank account. I would even rather pay something towards the cost of an Irish bank account than potentially have this hassle.

Jim2007 · 29-05-2021 7:17pm

Rock Steady Edy wrote: »

This review has completely put me off ever opening a digitised non-Irish based bank account. I would even rather pay something towards the cost of an Irish bank account than potentially have this hassle.

This can happen with any bank and as all banks become more digitized and the cost cutting goes on the differences will reduce.

But there are things you can do to reduce the chance of this happening:
- Always responded to ID requests promptly with the requested documents
- Inform the bank of expecting unusual transactions
- Make sure that people paying you have all your payment details not just the IBAN number

I can’t emphasize this last point enough because banks often use these additional fields to flag up transactions for review. For example, if you are commonly known as John Smith, but the account name is John K. Smith make sure the payer knows this.

The J Stands for Jay · 14-06-2021 1:37pm

KBC have just sent out an email saying they're adding push notifications for payments to their app.

bonjurkes · 14-06-2021 1:41pm

That's great news, they can send a push notification to their customers before they are closing their doors officially

KBC Bank - 5 minutes ago
Bye lads!

unkel · 14-06-2021 1:57pm

LOL yeah same here. KBC just rang to confirm my account is now officially closed. Adios!

N26 is my current account now...

feelings · 14-06-2021 1:58pm

Strange one alright. Presume it was in the pipeline but would have thought they'd haved killed any future updates.

The thoughts of moving banks again. *sigh*

Yyhhuuu · 14-06-2021 8:14pm

unkel wrote: »

LOL yeah same here. KBC just rang to confirm my account is now officially closed. Adios!

N26 is my current account now...

Please update us as to how you find N26.

unkel · 14-06-2021 10:51pm

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Please update us as to how you find N26.

I've had N26 for years, just didn't use it much. They have a full EU banking license and your balance is covered by the German government €100k deposit guarantee. Unlike Revolut.

What else can I say? It's an online bank account, it's free with free ATM withdrawals. They have no branches. I've moved all my direct debits to them, without issue. They have an app for your phone.

I'm still keeping Revolut as it's the cheapest way to make payments in foreign currencies and it's a generally quite well accepted way of making and receiving instant payments to and from other people

Quazzie · 17-06-2021 8:55pm

unkel wrote: »

.

I'm still keeping Revolut as it's the cheapest way to make payments in foreign currencies

How accurate is this?

Me and my sister both purchased a product on Amazon and I paid with Revolut and she used her PTSB bank card. A quick check and she paid about 2% less when converted to euro.

unkel · 17-06-2021 10:27pm

Quazzie wrote: »

How accurate is this?

Me and my sister both purchased a product on Amazon and I paid with Revolut and she used her PTSB bank card. A quick check and she paid about 2% less when converted to euro.

Was that at a weekend? Revolut charges the interbank rate, which is the cheapest possible rate. No main bank offers this. But at weekends they charge a premium.

And I presume you both paid in GBP? If you pay in EUR then Amazon takes the FX rate difference

Quazzie · 17-06-2021 11:03pm

unkel wrote: »

Was that at a weekend? Revolut charges the interbank rate, which is the cheapest possible rate. No main bank offers this. But at weekends they charge a premium.

And I presume you both paid in GBP? If you pay in EUR then Amazon takes the FX rate difference

Wednesday 9th June. Both bought the same product. Both prime members. Both paid in Sterling allowing our respective banks make handle the currency exchange. I was always of the belief like the claims that Revolut was cheaper and definitely when compared to my own AIB card on any time I've tested it, it was. Maybe PTSB have a better rate though

KBC exiting Ireland

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