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Electricity prices

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24

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    #32
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,927 ✭✭✭alps


    MAULBROOK wrote: »
    Holy fxxk if anyone needs solar PV fitted its you.
    6k a year on power you would have pay back on a decent setup in less than 5 years or less.

    6K would be pretty standard for 100 cow herd..


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    #33
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,078 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    blue5000 wrote: »
    What percentage are you able to use at night rate? I'm guessing the bulk tank is direct expansion? It's a fair whack of a bill alright. Would a gas heater in the dairy work out better I wonder?

    50 % night rate


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    #34
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Got a whopper of a bill this week so as the morning was so s##t i pulled out the bill and started ringing.bord gais 15.6 day and night 7.75.12 month contract dd and paperless billing.thats well over a 100 e a month saved for us.plus vat at 13.5


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    #35
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,078 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Who were you with previously?


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    #36
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Who were you with previously?

    Ifa (bord gas).ifa doesn't suit larger users.we use 38 000 units a year


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    #37
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Anyone using solar pv, any idea what the ROI would be on a dairy farm?


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    #38
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,071 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    I have used utility solutions for over a year ,he dose all the work setting up account checking tariffs and getting a deal .I just submit a reading every month .I’ve tried bonkers etc and none come close to the unit price I’m paying .there’s a small yearly fee involved but we’ll worth it as I’ve saved a significant amount on what I would of been paying if I hadn’t got this guy involved .for reference on my house I’m paying 12.50 per unit snd on farm paying a day rate of 13.70 and night rate of 6.55.if anyone wants a contact number drop me a dm ,most here on Twitter will probably already know


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    #39
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,078 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    I have used utility solutions for over a year ,he dose all the work setting up account checking tariffs and getting a deal .I just submit a reading every month .I’ve tried bonkers etc and none come close to the unit price I’m paying .there’s a small yearly fee involved but we’ll worth it as I’ve saved a significant amount on what I would of been paying if I hadn’t got this guy involved .for reference on my house I’m paying 12.50 per unit snd on farm paying a day rate of 13.70 and night rate of 6.55.if anyone wants a contact number drop me a dm ,most here on Twitter will probably already know

    It's just the same as looking up bonkers.ie and no fee. I said that to him when he rang me


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    #40
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,078 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    K.G. wrote: »
    Ifa (bord gas).ifa doesn't suit larger users.we use 38 000 units a year

    It's a bit of a joke really, not really working for the farmer are they?


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    #41
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,071 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    whelan2 wrote: »
    It's just the same as looking up bonkers.ie and no fee. I said that to him when he rang me

    I tried bonkers and he was a bit cheaper


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    #42
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,071 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    whelan2 wrote: »
    It's a bit of a joke really, not really working for the farmer are they?

    Tbh I think the ifa should have nothing to do with this and just represent all farmers ,take on the coops ,meat factories ,lobby govt etc


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    #43
    orm0nd
    Registered Users Posts: 4,174 ✭✭✭orm0nd


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Tbh I think the ifa should have nothing to do with this and just represent all farmers ,take on the coops ,meat factories ,lobby govt etc

    I have changed broadband/landline/mobile providers a good few times over the years and the most clueless, ignorant & unqualified staff I have ever come across were the crowd at ifa telecom.


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    #44
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,078 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Tbh I think the ifa should have nothing to do with this and just represent all farmers ,take on the coops ,meat factories ,lobby govt etc

    Wasn't that Pat smith's baby?


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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Anyone here a customer of Waterpower down in kanturk ?
    How do you find them?

    http://www.waterpower.ie/


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    #46
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Mooooo wrote: »
    Anyone using solar pv, any idea what the ROI would be on a dairy farm?

    Its a little off-topic but its worth a reply.

    Any farmer, particularly dairy, who has some capital to spend now for a long term gain should take a serious look at Solar PV.

    Dairy farmers, in particular, because the sun is shining most at the time that dairy farms have the ability to utilise it (self-consumption is critically important for ROI), which is ~10:00-19:00 during the summer months..... what with plate coolers, bulk tanks, milking machine, compressors, hot water, water pumps etc. In addition farmers have loads of wide open roof space with no shading which is quite important to maximise the output. Ideally south facing.

    There are several threads in the Renewable forum that you should look at for costs and consider getting some installers out to quote you.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=117396876

    As for your ROI question... thats a very difficult one to answer definitively as it depends on what exactly you go for and what your usage profile is like.
    e.g. How many panels, what direction they are facing, how much of the electricity you can use, have you got batteries, have you got 3-phase... lots of variables but the payback should be, for a dairy farmer, somewhere around 5-7yrs. After that its money in the bank and SolarPV has no moving parts or servicing required. It either works or it doesnt. The panels are good for decades (25+ years). The weak link is the inverter which will die eventually (10 year warranty usually) but they are relatively cheap (€hundreds) to replace.

    Alot of farms have their electricity supply connected to their house in which case you'd be able to apply for the domestic SolarPV grant
    https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/solar-electricity-grant/

    Im not sure if you can apply for a grant if the farm supply is separate but you dont need the grant to make it viable and I'm sure you'd be able to claim other tax reliefs since it is a capital expenditure.

    Finally, as a headsup, there is a Feed-In-Traiff coming in the next month or so. A FiT is where you get paid for any generation that you dont use. That energy gets sent to the grid and at the moment Eirgrid get to use it for free!

    There will be a new microgeneration scheme put in place next month which will allow you to get paid for the unused energy... probably around the night rate value. It requires the installation of a smart meter which might be a double edged sword as the rates so far on smart meters are higher than standard day/night tariffs. If that occurs then you just let it go to the grid for free and do your best to use it all by dumping the excess to heat hot water or any other means possible (timing ice generators etc).


    Come on over to the renewable forum for further discussion, there are some farmers over there! ;)


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    #47
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    The big problem with dairy farms is the demand peaks-troughs. There is a huge demand at milking, the rest of the day it's like a normal house, unless cooling with an ice bank at night rate. I think wind would be a better option on a dairy farm. There's not too many lads still milking at 10am.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #48
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,071 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    blue5000 wrote: »
    The big problem with dairy farms is the demand peaks-troughs. There is a huge demand at milking, the rest of the day it's like a normal house, unless cooling with an ice bank at night rate. I think wind would be a better option on a dairy farm. There's not too many lads still milking at 10am.

    You’d be surprised …..know a few lads who still milk at 10 or later …..and 7/8 maby 9 in evening ….everyone to there own but jaysus …


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    #49
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,047 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    blue5000 wrote: »
    The big problem with dairy farms is the demand peaks-troughs. There is a huge demand at milking, the rest of the day it's like a normal house, unless cooling with an ice bank at night rate. I think wind would be a better option on a dairy farm. There's not too many lads still milking at 10am.

    A dairy neighbour with solar and wind generation claims to be running the farm totally on on farm generation.
    It would make you think though.
    Especially now with electric cars, motorbikes and quads out. People even using cars now for battery storage to run the house.


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    #50
    cute geoge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    How can you use a car for battery storage ,is it just by leaving it parked up and hooked on to it with cables???
    Every year they are becoming more efficent with battery storage so would be reluctant to splash out on renewables just yet ,what you pay dear for this year will be probably reduntant in 3 years time in regard battery storage


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    #51
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    blue5000 wrote: »
    The big problem with dairy farms is the demand peaks-troughs. There is a huge demand at milking, the rest of the day it's like a normal house, unless cooling with an ice bank at night rate. I think wind would be a better option on a dairy farm. There's not too many lads still milking at 10am.

    That peak-trough issue is the gotcha for all electricity usage, not just dairy farmers.

    Wind doesnt really pay that well and is as likely to be producing nothing at 12pm as Solar so that peak-trough issue will still be there for wind turbines.

    Turbines are also significantly more expensive, require alot of ongoing maintenance and they need a suitable site which alot of farms wouldnt have. It isnt just a case of stick it in the middle of a field with nothing around it and it'll be grand.

    You can stick 20 Solar panels on a shed roof and forget about it for the next 20 years!


    I'm not saying every dairy farmer should spend on Solar PV. I am saying they should consider it. A simple €30 energy monitor on their main supply over the course of one summer and you'll quickly learn how much you are using during the 10-19:00 timeframe and whether it will be worth it or not.

    You can dump alot of your excess electricity to hot water. I know that runs on night rate but its still saving you money. The Feed-in-tariff can then also come into play to soak up any excess beyond that but that FiT is a bit of an unknown yet.

    The main thing that farmers have going for them is loads of unobstructed roof space and high energy bills. Its worth looking at.


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    #52
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,047 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    cute geoge wrote: »
    How can you use a car for battery storage ,is it just by leaving it parked up and hooked on to it with cables???

    Seemingly that's it.

    If your home is run by renewables and your car is fully charged up and the renewables start to fade. You can use the power from the car's battery.


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    #53
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Say my name wrote: »
    Seemingly that's it.

    If your home is run by renewables and your car is fully charged up and the renewables start to fade. You can use the power from the car's battery.

    Thats the theory. That tech is in trial but not commercially available at reasonable cost yet.... It will happen though... when is the unknown.

    Its called Vehicle-To-Home and also Vehicle-To-Grid.


    Some EV owners, during power cuts, connect 3rd party 12V inverters to the cars 12V battery and use that to power a few critical items. Once you have the car turned on it will keep the 12V battery charged up so you are in effect running "your house" from the cars high-voltage battery which would last for days..... you could do the same with a petrol/diesel car too as long as you have the car running.

    This vehicle-to-home technology would be a bit slicker in that you would simply come home, plug the car in as you normally would to charge the car and if there is a power cut it will automatically (via a bi-directional charge point) start feeding power back to the house. No need to get any inverters or cables out or popping the bonnet etc and it would drive the entire house rather than just a few essential items. Its in the future...


  • Options
    #54
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    KCross wrote: »
    Thats the theory.
    This vehicle-to-home technology would be a bit slicker in that you would simply come home, plug the car in as you normally would to charge the car and if there is a power cut it will automatically (via a bi-directional charge point) start feeding power back to the house. No need to get any inverters or cables out or popping the bonnet etc and it would drive the entire house rather than just a few essential items. Its in the future...

    Sounds great but what happens if the power goes and doesn't come back for hours could you end up stranded at home because your house has flattened the cars battery.


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    #55
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Sounds great but what happens if the power goes and doesn't come back for hours could you end up stranded at home because your house has flattened the cars battery.

    Technically yes.
    But new EV's would have a battery that would power an average house for many many days... maybe even weeks, so it would want to be one hell of a power cut.

    The longest power cut I've had was storm Ophelia and I was down for 5 days.... an EV would have powered the house for that time period no problem. Most power cuts in reality are a few hours, maybe a day or two.

    And nobody is stopping you from disconnecting the car from the house. Pick your poison, lights in the house or the ability to drive somewhere.

    You could also let the car run down just to a point where you could get to a nearby charger that does have power and charge the car up for 30mins and come back to your house to power it away again for another few days!


  • Options
    #56
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    KCross wrote: »
    Technically yes.
    But new EV's would have a battery that would power an average house for many many days... maybe even weeks, so it would want to be one hell of a power cut.

    The longest power cut I've had was storm Ophelia and I was down for 5 days.... an EV would have powered the house for that time period no problem. Most power cuts in reality are a few hours, maybe a day or two.

    And nobody is stopping you from disconnecting the car from the house. Pick your poison, lights in the house or the ability to drive somewhere.

    You could also let the car run down just to a point where you could get to a nearby charger that does have power and charge the car up for 30mins and come back to your house to power it away again for another few days!

    Didn't realise batteries would have that much power. I was more thinking of hours and you could have the battery fairly well run down before you realise it's running off the car.


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    #57
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Didn't realise batteries would have that much power. I was more thinking of hours and you could have the battery fairly well run down before you realise it's running off the car.

    For perspective...
    EV's nowadays have between 60-100kWh's of available energy.
    An average domestic house in Ireland would use about ~10kWh's per day. Every house is different of course, but it gives you an idea.


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    #58
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    KCross wrote: »
    Its a little off-topic but its worth a reply.

    Any farmer, particularly dairy, who has some capital to spend now for a long term gain should take a serious look at Solar PV.

    Dairy farmers, in particular, because the sun is shining most at the time that dairy farms have the ability to utilise it (self-consumption is critically important for ROI), which is ~10:00-19:00 during the summer months..... what with plate coolers, bulk tanks, milking machine, compressors, hot water, water pumps etc. In addition farmers have loads of wide open roof space with no shading which is quite important to maximise the output. Ideally south facing.

    There are several threads in the Renewable forum that you should look at for costs and consider getting some installers out to quote you.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=117396876

    As for your ROI question... thats a very difficult one to answer definitively as it depends on what exactly you go for and what your usage profile is like.
    e.g. How many panels, what direction they are facing, how much of the electricity you can use, have you got batteries, have you got 3-phase... lots of variables but the payback should be, for a dairy farmer, somewhere around 5-7yrs. After that its money in the bank and SolarPV has no moving parts or servicing required. It either works or it doesnt. The panels are good for decades (25+ years). The weak link is the inverter which will die eventually (10 year warranty usually) but they are relatively cheap (€hundreds) to replace.

    Alot of farms have their electricity supply connected to their house in which case you'd be able to apply for the domestic SolarPV grant
    https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/solar-electricity-grant/

    Im not sure if you can apply for a grant if the farm supply is separate but you dont need the grant to make it viable and I'm sure you'd be able to claim other tax reliefs since it is a capital expenditure.

    Finally, as a headsup, there is a Feed-In-Traiff coming in the next month or so. A FiT is where you get paid for any generation that you dont use. That energy gets sent to the grid and at the moment Eirgrid get to use it for free!

    There will be a new microgeneration scheme put in place next month which will allow you to get paid for the unused energy... probably around the night rate value. It requires the installation of a smart meter which might be a double edged sword as the rates so far on smart meters are higher than standard day/night tariffs. If that occurs then you just let it go to the grid for free and do your best to use it all by dumping the excess to heat hot water or any other means possible (timing ice generators etc).


    Come on over to the renewable forum for further discussion, there are some farmers over there! ;)

    With solar, is there an ideal roof slope and direction to face it in? And would there be any issues with additional weight on the roof?
    Just thinking about setting up buildings to maximise efficiency if I was to ever go down that road. I presume it would be an ideal setup for hydrogen if we start to see them become commercialised


  • Options
    #59
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    With solar, is there an ideal roof slope and direction to face it in?

    Like most things... depends!

    To get the max generation it would be ~30° angle South facing.

    However, its not always best to position your panels for max generation.
    For example, dairy farmers would be milking early morning and late afternoon so it would be better in that case to split your panels to two arrays, one facing east and one facing west. You'll get less generated overall but more of it will be generated at the time you need it.... i.e. more self consumption, which is what you should aim for.

    If you have one array all facing south you will get a massive spike around midday when all panels are generating at their max and you might not be able to use it all and then you are relying on the Feed-in-tariff to pay you for the excess. Splitting into two arrays will reduce the peak you get but will give you more early morning and late evening generation when you are better able to use it.

    There is no one right solution. It depends on your usage, what sheds you have etc.

    As I mentioned above, an energy monitor over one summer to see what your usage is like and then a Solar installer to guide you on what is best to match that.
    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    And would there be any issues with additional weight on the roof?

    If installed correctly, no, unless the roof is ready to fall in already! :)
    The panels are not particularly heavy.

    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    Just thinking about setting up buildings to maximise efficiency if I was to ever go down that road. I presume it would be an ideal setup for hydrogen if we start to see them become commercialised

    There are some plans to generate Hydrogen using excess renewable in the country in Cork and Shannon. Not sure its something farmers need to be worried about though! You need masses of power for that!

    If you are interested in Solar PV you need to be thinking along the lines of utilising as much of what you generate as you can. Thats the best bang for the buck!


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    #60
    Hard Knocks
    Registered Users Posts: 3,921 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    KCross wrote: »
    As I mentioned above, an energy monitor over one summer to see what your usage is like and then a Solar installer to guide you on what is best to match that.!

    Can you give a link to the monitor
    Do you just plug in or do you need it installed


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    #61
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,071 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Hard Knocks wrote: »
    Can you give a link to the monitor
    Do you just plug in or do you need it installed

    If u just submit a meter reading monthly and keep track of it yourself is this not the same and cutting the expense


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