Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

sydthebeat · 16-06-2021 09:25AM

Posters seem to think there is one Welsh team significantly stronger than the others that's going to get 30 points from their pool games... Same for the Scallion pool...

That simply doesn't exist. Its actually much much more likely that the Irish pool will be the one that's lob sided... And the other 3 pools will be a dog fight with all teams taking points off each other

KBurke85 · 16-06-2021 09:42AM

At the end of the day if Connacht focus on themselves, improve the areas they need to, become more consistent they shouldn't have to worry about who's playing who. If they're good enough they'll get the results they need to make play offs and Champions Cup. If not they don't deserve to be there anyway.

Burkie1203 · 16-06-2021 09:58AM

connachta wrote: »

YES!

that was my point

I mixed it up but my idea was

- Not only one but two teams can eliminate us when behind us in the table (that's why I said 6/8 but it's 7h and 8th)

AND

- It's a total scandal Glasgow play Zebre and us Leinster. You can turn this as you want but facing different opposition with a huge level-gap and the same table in the end shouldn't exist in sport, except (and still, it's contestable..) based on past season merit (seeding). Not the case here, I keep my opinion, it shouldn't even be legal

Saying it this way, I think many reasonable guys would agree and certainly not an extreme point

Connacht also get to play Zebre. And Benetton, Dragons etc. Glasgow also have to play Leinster etc. Glasgow have also lost a heap of their good players and are nowhere near as good as they used to be. I suspect the 4 pool winners will be in the top 6/7 of the overall table.

Claiming it " shouldn't be legal" is utter nonsense. Cop onto yourself with that stuff. Most sport is unbalanced these days. Man City have more money then Norwich, Bournemouth etc. So they win more because they buy better players.

connachta · 16-06-2021 09:59AM

KBurke85 wrote: »

At the end of the day if Connacht focus on themselves, improve the areas they need to, become more consistent they shouldn't have to worry about who's playing who. If they're good enough they'll get the results they need to make play offs and Champions Cup. If not they don't deserve to be there anyway.

Utter nonsense

Connacht deserves Champions Cup even behind 3 Irish and Saffers (best teams in the world after 2,3 N-Z franchises) + 1 other

And still may be out because of the double unfairness

Before, we had to be better than Glasgow and Osperys, now because Saffers are admitted in "Europe" and the rules are tricked, we have to beat Munster and Sharks. FFS that's the end

Money gained by Saffers payment will be lost in lack of sponsorship because TV/Fans wants big French and English teams, not Worcester

Same will, in a lesser extent, happen to Munster and Ulster

this is the end of the Irish reign. French and Welsh were very jealous of the model, now a way is found to end the era

Burkie1203 · 16-06-2021 10:01AM

connachta wrote: »

Utter nonsense

Connacht deserves Champions Cup even behind 3 Irish and Saffers + 1 other

And still may be out because of the double unfairness

Before, we had to be better than Glasgow and Osperys, now because Saffers were admitted in "Europe" and the rules are tricked, we have to beat Munster and Sharks. FFS that's the end

Money gained by Saffers payment will be lost in lack of sponsorship because TV/Fan wants big French and English teams, not Worcester

Connacht don't deserve to be in champions Cup if they don't earn it

You are going on like it is an entitlement

RonnieL · 16-06-2021 10:06AM

I've always felt we (connacht fans, and the branch themselves) are too obsessed with champions/heineken cup qualification. It results in us constantly looking too far forward at a competition that we might be in the following season, rather than focusing on the current league campaign itself. When we do qualify, we get all excited about it, then invariably get ourselves out of contention after a couple of the group games, and the cycle starts again. The reason I mention this now is, I think we've done that because the league we're in has never really been seen as good enough, certainly when compared to the European competition. That's one of the reasons I'm excited about the URC, because with 4 new top quality teams, and less games, the overall quality should improve. If the TV companies do a good enough job at presenting it, the prestige of the competitions will grow, and maybe we'll care less about champions cup qualification. Also, if we are forced to improve in order to qualify for Europe, we should be more competitive when we do get there (and when we don't make the champions cup, we'll give ourselves a good chance of a run in the challenge cup).

Let's see how it all plays out.

OldRio · 16-06-2021 10:07AM

salmocab wrote: »

I don’t think the top 4 teams are all in one group to be fair and if they turn out to be then they’d probably all qualify anyway.

The top 4 teams based on last seasons conferences are in the same pool.
4 teams from the same pool qualifying? Seriously?

sydthebeat · 16-06-2021 10:19AM

youd swear connacht have a European pedigree a kin to Toulouse by the way Connachta is going on here...

Connacht "deserve" absolutely nothing beyond what they earn

thomond2006 · 16-06-2021 10:23AM

OldRio wrote: »

The top 4 teams based on last seasons conferences are in the same pool.
4 teams from the same pool qualifying? Seriously?

They were the top 4 teams partly because the internationals missed most of the games and the provinces can absorb those absentees better than others thanks to depth/money. The Scots and Italians were doomed.

SA teams aside, I don't think the provinces will dominate to the same degree but I'd be surprised if three teams at least do not qualify.

OldRio · 16-06-2021 10:57AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

They were the top 4 teams partly because the internationals missed most of the games and the provinces can absorb those absentees better than others thanks to depth/money. The Scots and Italians were doomed.

SA teams aside, I don't think the provinces will dominate to the same degree but I'd be surprised if three teams at least do not qualify.

I never mentioned the how's and whys and whatever. I stated the 4 top teams in the conferences based on last seasons results are in the same pool.

I'm all for this new competition it will be like a breath of fresh air. IMHO the only change I would make is a seeding system for the pools. If this means a dilution of the inter pros so be it. Far too many last season for my liking.

ClanofLams · 16-06-2021 10:58AM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Connacht don't deserve to be in champions Cup if they don't earn it

You are going on like it is an entitlement

The post you are responding to is obviously making the point that meritocracy, as the IRFU wanted, should be in place. Connachta isn’t suggesting Connacht are entitled to anything rather that it should simply be top 8 teams qualifying.

There’s valid reasons why people can disagree but at least do so in good faith.

connachta · 16-06-2021 10:59AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

They were the top 4 teams partly because the internationals missed most of the games and the provinces can absorb those absentees better than others thanks to depth/money. The Scots and Italians were doomed.

SA teams aside, I don't think the provinces will dominate to the same degree but I'd be surprised if three teams at least do not qualify.

If "3" we all know which will be the 4th

But Munster/Ulster can and will be IMO badly surprise by the "format".

That's why IRFU reacts, and will react more in 2 years

connachta · 16-06-2021 11:01AM

ClanofLams wrote: »

The post you are responding to is obviously making the point that meritocracy, as the IRFU wanted, should be in place. Connachta isn’t suggesting Connacht are entitled to anything rather that it should simply be top 8 teams qualifying.

There’s valid reasons why people can disagree but at least do so in good faith.

Yes:)
I'd say top 8 without the current unfair pool repartition, but IRFU at least will fight for top 8 in 2 years..

evil_seed · 16-06-2021 11:30AM

Use your ignore lists guys.

salmocab · 16-06-2021 11:54AM

OldRio wrote: »

The top 4 teams based on last seasons conferences are in the same pool.
4 teams from the same pool qualifying? Seriously?

I said if they were the top 4 teams in the competition they would probably qualify and I’d stand by that. They won’t be the top 4 teams though.

connachta · 16-06-2021 12:11PM

I thought about it again.
The point is even simplier based on this season table
Connacht are 4th

The 4 Saffers are big guns, but even with 3 only above us, with the current table, 1 Welsh and 1 Scot are magically picked and Connacht are out

Right?

FACECUTTR · 16-06-2021 12:24PM

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/06/16/squad-update-departing-players-complete-their-time-at-munster/

From this article it says Cronin is gone. The story about Munster matching he Connacht offer must have only been agent ****housery.

Jump_In_Jack · 16-06-2021 12:27PM

connachta wrote: »

I thought about it again.
The point is even simplier based on this season table
Connacht are 4th

The 4 Saffers are big guns, but even with 3 only above us, with the current table, 1 Welsh 1 Scot are magically picked and Connacht are out

Right?

Correct. If the other 3 Irish provinces plus 3 of the SA teams take the top 6 places in the league, Connacht cannot qualify for H Cup.

What is more interesting to me is that after the coming season, the Heineken Cup may revert to the old system, where 7 teams will qualify from this league.
So after that, it really would be very difficult the following year, as it would mean the top 5 teams (assuming all a mix of Irish teams (besides Connacht) and SA teams) plus a Welsh plus a Scot/Italian team will take the 7 places.
So Connacht might have to finish top 5 then.
Likely the top 5 would be Leinster, Bulls, and three from Munster/Stormers/Ulster/Sharks.
Connacht would have a lot to do in the second year of this new qualification system.
After that however, returning to a meritocratic system will mean Connacht would need to finish in the top 7 at least, so probably will be in a dogfight with Scarlets, Lions, Glasgow and Benetton every year, assuming those mentioned above always fill the top 6 places.
Hopefully Connacht will continue to improve and may finish higher up than barely qualifying for the Heineken Cup.
All in all, at least it's far superior to the non-competitive league of the past season, 4 Irish teams easily the best of the 12 teams, not much for a spectator to watch.

KBurke85 · 16-06-2021 12:27PM

connachta wrote: »

I thought about it again.
The point is even simplier based on this season table
Connacht are 4th

The 4 Saffers are big guns, but even with 3 only above us, with the current table, 1 Welsh and 1 Scot are magically picked and Connacht are out

Right?

Lets just wait and see what happens on the pitch. The current table, past tables are irrelevant. It will be a new season new competition and if Connacht get good enough results to qualify great if not they focus on improving and try again the following year.

thomond2006 · 16-06-2021 12:31PM

FACECUTTR wrote: »

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/06/16/squad-update-departing-players-complete-their-time-at-munster/

From this article it says Cronin is gone. The story about Munster matching he Connacht offer must have only been agent ****housery.

Hopefully Connacht can manage to sign Cronin. He's proven and will great competition when Buckley returns.

connachta · 16-06-2021 12:33PM

FACECUTTR wrote: »

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/06/16/squad-update-departing-players-complete-their-time-at-munster/

From this article it says Cronin is gone. The story about Munster matching he Connacht offer must have only been agent ****housery.

Good chance he comes :cool:

FACECUTTR · 16-06-2021 12:34PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Hopefully Connacht can manage to sign Cronin. He's proven.

Was actually half expecting to see him named in the ireland squad with how he has played this season.

KBurke85 · 16-06-2021 12:38PM

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Was actually half expecting to see him named in the ireland squad with how he has played this season.

Unless the irfu know he's signing for someone abroad

connachta · 16-06-2021 12:40PM

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Was actually half expecting to see him named in the ireland squad with how he has played this season.

That's in contradiction with your "thank you" when we talk about him signed. If he's Connacht, he won't be capped:pac:

Kidding, though I did not agree with Farrell not picking Connacht lads for 6 nations.
Looks better now but they are quite meaningless games.

It's Blade who'll be the indicator, Heff, Bealham and so on I can get why they're not in the 2 first pick in their positions, I can't about Coalin

ClanofLams · 16-06-2021 12:41PM

Heard a rumour that London Irish were interested in Cronin but deal fell through for some reason. Connacht seemed to be in pole position then. Then the Munster back in stories appeared which guess might have been agent trying to drum up few offers.

Hopefully he comes west, would be great and much needed boost.

connachta · 16-06-2021 12:47PM

ClanofLams wrote: »

Heard a rumour that London Irish were interested in Cronin but deal fell through for some reason. Connacht seemed to be in pole position then. Then the Munster back in stories appeared which guess might have been agent trying to drum up few offers.

Hopefully he comes west, would be great and much needed boost.

With "only" a dozen of games before Buckley coming back (new light schedule), I think we could have him starting 90% of the time, if he doesn't play added games with Ireland.
Duggan is able to start 2 or 3 and bench every other.
Then the scrum would be ok!

Dubinusa · 16-06-2021 12:48PM

Cronin will probably leave Ireland and go for the money. At this stage in his career, the salary would most likely be the driving factor. Unless, there's no offers from abroad. I think he's a very good player and would be a great addition for Connacht. I'm surprised he didn't get called up to the international squad.

connachta · 16-06-2021 12:50PM

Dubinusa wrote: »

Cronin will probably leave Ireland and go for the money. At this stage in his career, the salary would most likely be the driving factor. Unless, there's no offers from abroad. I think he's a very good player and would be a great addition for Connacht. I'm surprised he didn't get called up to the international squad.

As said above, not until next summer please, we need him to start again and again, so short until March ...
But as you said, not done yet...

Dubinusa · 16-06-2021 01:11PM

If Duggan gets a run, who knows... he may be up to it. Cronin would be great for Connacht. He's still got a few years left and is very good. I'd have him at Leinster in a heartbeat.

fatgav · 16-06-2021 08:59PM

With the Champions Cup seedlings confirmed today, and Connacht fourth from the Pro12, it means Connacht will play Northampton/Leicester and Stade Francais/Clermont in the pool stage next year

This is on the assumption that the format for the draw and tournament doesn’t change, but the dates announced today for the fixtures correspond to last season, as it was initially planned

Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

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