otmmyboy2 wrote: »

I'd be in the millennial bracket too, but I do have to agree, a lot of people my age are very left leaning politically, up to and including embracing communism.

Somewhat understandable since they rarely dig much deeper than the "free" stuff offered, or made to be "rights".

At my current career level("good" industry, educated, job security, etc) and with the housing market as it is here there is zero chance I'd be able to afford a mortgage for anything even half decent in the foreseeable future, and because of this I can empathize more with those who turn to socialism/communism, particularly when a "right" to housing is being discussed.

However I cannot agree with them knowing the extensive cons of that ideology.
Empathize, yes, but never agree.

100%. There was a thing on the news channel about young people and unemployment in europe. Most were saying the same, they cannot get work, when they do its not well paid and the notion of buying a house is just a dream. The lot here letting every vulture fund in to fleece the place and buy up housing estates, apartment blocks and now i hear, farms.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

They did give you "free housing" in Soviet Russia.Crappyily built,damp,falling down before it was half finished one room state apartments with rubbish plumbing and heating.

Well, the new version is of course "pod living" Communal living with a rented bed space.No need for a mortgage,you wont own property at all,or anything for that matter,and like it.Should appeal to the plebian collective mindset of the Socialist/Communist espousers.:rolleyes:

https://youtu.be/baNt9GuwjfE

Yup, but people having a difficult time getting somewhere affordable to live, means they don't have families as they cannot live with the insecurity, then the EU wonders why places like Italy are dying. Its reckoned Italys population is dropping by 350k a year !

People end up turning to the extremes, its what happened with the Weimar republic in Germany in the 30's. Need two wheelbarrows of cash to buy a loaf of bread ? Hmmmmm, that Mr.Hitler fella has some interesting ideas.

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

... there is zero chance I'd be able to afford a mortgage for anything even half decent in the foreseeable future, and because of this I can empathize more with those who turn to socialism/communism, particularly when a "right" to housing is being discussed.

I think it’s one if situations where a word has a twisted meaning. “Housing” as a right should refer to should sort of basic shelter, being “housed” in a basic sense. But of course, people twist that into a handout of a superior, 4 bed, forever home. But that’s just scrounging imo, not communism.

But I don’t think I’ve ever heard a sane person (subjective) arguing for communism, actual communism. It’s completely and utterly detached from human nature. Scrounging wouldn’t last long in a communist state either. It’s less “here’s a house” and more “here’s a job in the mines, miss a day and you disappear”

Even the communist countries aren’t even pretending communism works.

Mellor wrote: »

I think it’s one if situations where a word has a twisted meaning. “Housing” as a right should refer to should sort of basic shelter, being “housed” in a basic sense. But of course, people twist that into a handout of a superior, 4 bed, forever home. But that’s just scrounging imo, not communism.

But I don’t think I’ve ever heard a sane person (subjective) arguing for communism, actual communism. It’s completely and utterly detached from human nature. Scrounging wouldn’t last long in a communist state either. It’s less “here’s a house” and more “here’s a job in the mines, miss a day and you disappear”

Even the communist countries aren’t even pretending communism works.

Ah but those failures that cost 100s of millions of lives in Gulags and labour camps, wasn't REAL communism!!! THIS time it will work of course!!
What was Einstein saying about the definition of insanity?

tudderone wrote: »

Its not all bad news at the mo, someone clouted Macron one, well he has got a face you'd want to slap.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-57405806

To be fair that was a cowards slap. And if you watch it Macron loads up his fist to retort(pulled away by security detail). Would have been Hilarious if macron opened a can of whoopass.

Macron slap: Hitler book and weapons found - French reports https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57412615

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

"Weapons" lol.



Christ I'm willing to bet everyone in this thread has a more impressive selection of "weapons" than that, firearms excluded!

Certainly anyone I know who has an interest in militaria has an arsenal in comparison

Reading further the guy did HEMA, no wonder he had a sword and dagger.

The article, after the clickbait bit at the top, even admits it was an open handed hit and "There was not the remotest threat to the physical integrity of the president".

As usual the media hyping it up and of course blaming it on the "far right" to get those clicks.

I've seen carboot sales better armed:D:D:D

Feckin joke the whole thing from start to finish TBH.:rolleyes:Macrone runs away like a truculent kid escaping its nanny.The security detail is sprinting after the French president after warning him don't do that.
French prez gets biatch slapped by some lad into medieval martial arts.
Media tries to find "right wing extremist" connection...But settles on "weapons" instead.
Can see some good comedy skits here.

At least ol John fatty Prescott, when he was whatever in the UK got egged,he started wearing into the egg thrower and got two good digs in on your man before the protection detail hauled him off.

Prescott's response was pretty fast

Cambridge police firearms charity told it cannot sponsor an under 15's football team as the term "Firearms" is not acceptable to that football team!


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-57441840

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

So lads this is it , encryption on devices no longer protects you if you don't hand your password over to a warrantless search you'll be thrown in jail for 5 years and fined 30,000
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/new-garda-powers-to-allow-access-to-mobile-phones-1.4592434
Sad day for privacy
Absolutely an abuse of powers will arise form this
Doesn't matter if you're innocent ,you're assumed guilty with no right to privacy

Read the actual Bill and not the Irish Times article.

It requires the search be under a power granted by a warrant.

Gardai already have this power under certain warrants and this bill extends it to all search warrants.

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

Hadn't read the bill, just the article as it was, which said:


Suspect in a crime therefore suspected of committing an offence, thus what I said was accurate with the information to hand.
Therefore not misinformation - false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive
Since it was not false or inaccurate given the information I had to hand.

Searched for and read the bill now and amended my earlier post, happy :P

Still a despicable invasion of privacy, but less than the warrantless search the article led me to believe was the case.

It’s meant for serious crime ie murder, drug trafficking, fraud, child abuse etc. I would safely say I think it won’t affect 99.99% of the population and if it would assist solving serious crime then I’m happy with it.

So what they look at your browsing history, some weird WhatsApp videos etc. mostly have a boring laborious root through your photos. Would be a waste of Garda resources.

I’ve nothing to hide, don’t think it will affect many

.

I’ve nothing to hide, don’t think it will affect many[/quote]

FAMOUS LAST WORDS!!!Of many who trusted the State...How do you know what you have today in your computer or possesion is going to be illegal tomorrow?
Or let me put it another way if you believe this...You would have no problem then if AGS,the Revenue ,Tusla,and any other welfare or law enforcement organisation ,dropped in tomorrow at 3AM with no warrant,no excuse,or other plausible reason to search your house,your private papers,and your bottom sock drawer.Question you,your family and underage children without any legal counsel,you present on any topic they fancy ,and for as long they want?Take any documents,papers ,or anything they want as "evidence of a crime"not spe ified
Then leave with no explanation or reason?
You would object?But if you have done nothing wrong,what have you got to hide?

Richard308 wrote: »

No Grizzly.
That would be unlawful, but if they’ve a warrant they can work away. And would be happy to help. Revenue, ags, Tusla, customs and excise, anyone once a court issued warrant. And you’re entitled to a copy of the warrant.

But if some clowns turned up without a warrant obviously that’s a different story.

But why would they need, a warrant?After all you are a "good and loyal citizen"who has nothing to hide . Right?...This is the point...If you believe you have nothing to hide in your private life ,then surely you would have no problem with govt types showing up like that warrantless.as when they need a warrant you must have something to hide from the state?

Richard308 wrote: »

You’re being facetious, The law is with a warrant,

At the moment...Says who that it will be like this in 2,5,10 years time for something like this? You???


< MOD SNIP>



Rule #2

Ok in view of a GODWINS LAW infringement .Please replace all of the previous examples with the STAZI of the German Democratic Republic for the examples of intimidation,and deportment,arrest and imprisonment of "good citizens" who thought they had done "nothing wrong " under a Communist regime, which was just as bad as the overthrown Nazi regime..

I don’t believe I’ll ever be the subject of a warrant as I don’t engage in criminal behaviour.

Well done you...
Seriously! are you that naive that you can ab-sol-utely say that whatever you do in the future or posses now will never be construed as criminal /dissident behaviour or contraband?
By anyone or govt in the future? Where people today are mob judging others for tweets written 10 years ago?Whats to say this entire board will be considered "dissident writing by animal abusers and gun fanatics"

We've already seen where some guy in the UK, while having beliefs and views on Nazism has been jailed because he had "nazi memobrillia" and some "banned books"[freely available on Amazon.co.uk and in your local bookshop]

Been a couple of cases of this happening where the British police thugs have arrested people for having under Sect 50 of the counter-terrorism act."literature or documentation likely to be of use to a terrorist group."
IOW that means.If say they found a manual in your house on say operating a LAW rocket launcher[" and PA Lutys improvised machine pistol book and a copy of the Turner diaries[you are an author doing research on a post apocalyptic resistance movement run by a right extremist]
You are NICKED Mate! Under that Sect 50 as you are obviously a Nazi[Turner diaries],manufacturing firearms[PALuty book] and training on how to use artillery[LAW manual]
Still think you have done nothing wrong...baaa ,baaa,baaa?

“Govt types” what does that even mean?

Take a WAG...:)

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.

I’ve nothing to hide, don’t think it will affect many

I have an uncle who decided to head to the pub one night for a jar, while there the pub was unusually quiet and he got chatting with a lad at the bar about racing and football and all that rubbish. Two mornings later at about 6 am his front door was taken off the hinges and a couple of car loads of branch men piled in, he was nicked in handcuffs etc and taken off to the station while the house was ransacked.

Turns out the guy, who he didn't know, was involved with a republican group, the chatting and passing the time of day was enough to get someone a warrant and his privacy invaded and him arrested.

This "It'll never happen to me" line is in the famous last words top ten.

tonysopprano wrote: »

This bill introduces "Thought Crime" and allows them to stop, detain and arrest you, IF THEY THINK THAT A CRIME IS ABOUT TO BE COMMITTED, whether it is child abduction, trafficking or A TERROIST OFFENCE (no definition), WITHOUT A WARRANT and with NO RECOURSE.

Did you know THE GARDAI ALREADY HAVE THOSE POWERS? Do you think the Gardai have to wait until a crime is committed before they can act? lol

All this Bill does is amalgamate the existing powers of arrest, search and detention and put them in one single piece of legislation instead of spreading them across several acts going back decades.

tonysopprano wrote: »

YES. They cannot act until A LAW IS BROKEN.

That is why, when they tell you to move on, they cannot do ANYTHING UNTIL YOU REFUSE, THEN THEY TELL YOU THAT YOU HAVE BROKEN THE LAW.

They have, once again been given the power to MAKE UP THE LAW, as they see fit.

This might be the "Off Topic" chat on a firearms thread, but how many people here have been subjected to the ( I can do what I want, It dosn't matter what the law states, I'm the authority on this not some judge)

And we have been proven to be THE MOST LAW ABIDING plebs in the country, yet we still suffer.

Section 8(2) of the Criminal Law Act, 1976 disagrees with you. This section will be replaced by Head 10 of the new bill.

This new bill grants no new powers in regards to the stopping, questioning and arrest of people. These powers already exist, they're now being consolidated in a single act.

Where a member of the Garda Síochána who with reasonable cause suspects that an offence to which this section applies has been, is being or is about to be committed requires a person to stop a vehicle with a view to ascertaining whether—

(a) any person in or accompanying the vehicle has committed, is committing or is about to commit the offence, or

(b) evidence relating to the commission or intended commission of the offence by any person is in or on the vehicle or on any person in or accompanying it,

he may search the vehicle, and if (whether before or after the commencement of the search) he suspects with reasonable cause that any of the facts mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) above exists, he may search any person in or accompanying the vehicle.

(3) A member of the Garda Síochána may use reasonable force in order to compel a person to comply with a requirement to stop a vehicle, and such force may include the placing of a barrier or other device in the path of vehicles.

(4) Any reference in subsection (1) of this section to an offence includes a reference to attempting or conspiring to commit the offence.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1976/act/32/enacted/en/print#sec7

tonysopprano wrote: »

Except REASONABLE CAUSE AND VEHICLE HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT

Left out of what?

The new bill?

Here's the text of Head 10 of the new Bill which will replace Section 8 of the Criminal Law Act, 1976;

Where a member of the Garda Síochána who is in—
(a) a public place, or
(b) any other place under a power of entry authorised by law or to which or in which he
or she was expressly or impliedly invited or permitted to be,
has reasonable grounds to suspect that an offence under Schedule 2 has been, is being or is
about to be committed, her or she may require a person to stop a vehicle with a view to
ascertaining whether—

(i) any person in or accompanying the vehicle has committed, is committing or is about
to commit the offence, or
(ii) evidence relating to the commission or intended commission of the offence by any
person is in or on the vehicle or on any person in or accompanying it,
and the member may search the vehicle, and if whether before or after the commencement of
the search, he or she suspects with reasonable grounds that any of the facts mentioned in
paragraph (i) or (ii) above exists, he may search any person in or accompanying the vehicle.

Section 8, Criminal Law Act, 1976 for comparison;

Where a member of the Garda Síochána who with reasonable cause suspects that an offence to which this section applies has been, is being or is about to be committed requires a person to stop a vehicle with a view to ascertaining whether—

(a) any person in or accompanying the vehicle has committed, is committing or is about to commit the offence, or

(b) evidence relating to the commission or intended commission of the offence by any person is in or on the vehicle or on any person in or accompanying it,

he may search the vehicle, and if (whether before or after the commencement of the search) he suspects with reasonable cause that any of the facts mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) above exists, he may search any person in or accompanying the vehicle.

(3) A member of the Garda Síochána may use reasonable force in order to compel a person to comply with a requirement to stop a vehicle, and such force may include the placing of a barrier or other device in the path of vehicles.

(4) Any reference in subsection (1) of this section to an offence includes a reference to attempting or conspiring to commit the offence.

Tell me again which part was left out.....

tonysopprano wrote: »

Except the above RELATES TO PERSONS IN CUSTODY (already arrested)

No it doesn't.

Grand, there's no talking to you so.

I've explained it to you several times and you can't seem to grasp it. Every power of arrest, search and detention in the new Bill is a direct replacement for an already existing power.

Keep digging your hole there.

(2) Where a member of the Garda Síochána who with reasonable cause suspects that an offence to which this section applies has been, is being or is about to be committed requires a person to stop a vehicle with a view to ascertaining whether—

(a) any person in or accompanying the vehicle has committed, is committing or is about to commit the offence, or

(b) evidence relating to the commission or intended commission of the offence by any person is in or on the vehicle or on any person in or accompanying it,

he may search the vehicle, and if (whether before or after the commencement of the search) he suspects with reasonable cause that any of the facts mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) above exists, he may search any person in or accompanying the vehicle.