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Stobart air liquidated- the end of Irish domestic aviation?

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135

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    #62
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    Aer Lingus to temporarily operate sone routes starting today.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0613/1227795-aer-lingus-stobart/


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    #63
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,581 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Aer Lingus Mainline to operate former EI Regional services on:

    Dublin-Edinburgh and Dublin-Manchester
    Belfast-Edinburgh, Belfast-Birmingham and Belfast-Manchester

    BA Cityflyer to operate former EI Regional services on:
    Belfast-Exeter and Belfast-Leeds/Bradford


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Aer Lingus Mainline to operate former EI Regional services on:

    Dublin-Edinburgh and Dublin-Manchester
    Belfast-Edinburgh, Belfast-Birmingham and Belfast-Manchester

    BA Cityflyer to operate former EI Regional services on:
    Belfast-Exeter and Belfast-Leeds/Bradford
    What does that mean in practice? Use any airframe available?


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    #65
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭john boye


    EI-GEV appears to be positioning somewhere atm. Heading North but I'm not sure if it's to BHD.


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    #66
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,581 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What does that mean in practice? Use any airframe available?

    Well Aer Lingus will presumably use A320 aircraft for the ones they are operating, and BA Cityflyer will use an E170/E190.

    This is for the next week at least. What happens in the medium/long term is another issue.


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    #67
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,581 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    john boye wrote: »
    EI-GEV appears to be positioning somewhere atm. Heading North but I'm not sure if it's to BHD.

    It is currently heading across the North Sea towards Denmark.

    Presumably returning to the lessor, NAC (Nordic Aviation Capital).

    My guess is that it is heading to Billund.


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    EI-FSK is en route behind GEV as well heading across North Sea


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    #69
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,737 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Mayo_fan wrote: »
    A lot happened since then, EI were bought out of the arrangement you mention so no longer on the hook for any associated aircraft liabilities.
    .....
    .....

    Thanks for the clarification.
    I can't claim to follow it all but as you say, the lawyers will love the twisted web of responsibility.


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    #70
    Gooser14
    Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭Gooser14


    john boye wrote:
    EI-GEV appears to be positioning somewhere atm. Heading North but I'm not sure if it's to BHD.


    Landed at Billund Airport Denmark.


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    #71
    boardise
    Registered Users Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭boardise


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Can't see the full article but the headline hits the nail on the head:

    increasing-shock-at-the-governments-casual-approach-to-death-of-aviation-industry

    Aerlingus cancelling flights out of Ireland, reducing capacity, Ryanair doing the same... Will definitely be the least connected EU country out of the 27 by the end of the Summer.

    I presume it doesn't help matters either if the Minister For Transport happens to be someone who is ideologically disposed to reducing aviation activity over the medium/longer term ...
    Said Minister doesn't exactly exude dynamism.


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    #72
    theguzman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    I flew KIR-DUB only within the last fortnight for the first time in 11 years and my first time on the EI Regional ATR, there was four passengers onboard. I think what should happen is the PSO should be awarded to Ryanair but with special conditions attached, to drive connectivity there should be a Universal interline agreement so you check in at Farranfore and your bag will transfer to whoever in Dublin, Etihad, Turkish, AA etc, get rid of the ridiculous ID check for a domestic flight, carryon luggage included for free. A plane leaving Dublin at 9-10pm at night would also be great.

    None of this will of course happen because there is neither the will or joined up thinking. Ryanair went KIR-DUB for €9.99 each way back in the old days. 4.5hrs from Tralee to Dublin on a train isn't acceptable in Kerry anymore.


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    #73
    Masala
    Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Masala


    theguzman wrote: »
    I flew KIR-DUB only within the last fortnight for the first time in 11 years and my first time on the EI Regional ATR, there was four passengers onboard. I think what should happen is the PSO should be awarded to Ryanair but with special conditions attached, to drive connectivity there should be a Universal interline agreement so you check in at Farranfore and your bag will transfer to whoever in Dublin, Etihad, Turkish, AA etc, get rid of the ridiculous ID check for a domestic flight, carryon luggage included for free. A plane leaving Dublin at 9-10pm at night would also be great.

    None of this will of course happen because there is neither the will or joined up thinking. Ryanair went KIR-DUB for €9.99 each way back in the old days. 4.5hrs from Tralee to Dublin on a train isn't acceptable in Kerry anymore.

    ...... AND they only lasted 6 months on the route when the won the PSO the last time.

    Walked away when they realised that they hadn't a clue about running a PSO contract and the obligations it brings. And they left Kerry Airport high and dry with NO Dublin service for over a year....


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    #74
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    At the risk of upsetting a few people, I will just mention in passing that the reputation of Isle of Man owned airlines operating in Ireland is not exactly stellar, and the intended sale of Stobart was to an Isle of Man based company.

    I suspect that both the IAA and Aer Lingus may have had strong opinions on such a transfer, even allowing for the absence of any issues with Stobart and the predecessor owners.

    Aer Lingus had already indicated that their preferred bidder going forward for the regional operation was not Stobart, so clearly, there were some issues in the background that have not made their way into the public domain as yet. As to which way this will now pan out, that's anybody's guess, and i for one am not offering one at this stage.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #75
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,860 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    You speak facts. I don't think that observation will upset too many.


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    #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    At the risk of upsetting a few people, I will just mention in passing that the reputation of Isle of Man owned airlines operating in Ireland is not exactly stellar, and the intended sale of Stobart was to an Isle of Man based company.

    I suspect that both the IAA and Aer Lingus may have had strong opinions on such a transfer, even allowing for the absence of any issues with Stobart and the predecessor owners.

    Aer Lingus had already indicated that their preferred bidder going forward for the regional operation was not Stobart, so clearly, there were some issues in the background that have not made their way into the public domain as yet. As to which way this will now pan out, that's anybody's guess, and i for one am not offering one at this stage.

    Eddie Stobart, the UK logistics and haulage group, is to cut its profit from last year by about £2m after its new finance boss found problems in its accounting.

    https://www.ft.com/content/6cd91d2a-a212-11e9-974c-ad1c6ab5efd1

    "Accounting problems"


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    #77
    California Dreamer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    Deleted User wrote: »
    https://www.ft.com/content/6cd91d2a-a212-11e9-974c-ad1c6ab5efd1

    "Accounting problems"

    2 entirely different companies


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    #78
    Storm 10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,900 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    Whatever about Donegal and the PSO Kerry certainly does not need those flights they have a very good rail link from Tralee and Killarney to Dublin so its not as if they are cut off like Donegal which has no rail links. When Leo cut support for Galway Airport he used the Rail links as a reason why flights were not needed.


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    #79
    LiamaDelta
    Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭LiamaDelta


    Storm 10 wrote: »
    Whatever about Donegal and the PSO Kerry certainly does not need those flights they have a very good rail link from Tralee and Killarney to Dublin so its not as if they are cut off like Donegal which has no rail links. When Leo cut support for Galway Airport he used the Rail links as a reason why flights were not needed.

    The motorway was the main reason, the railway has always been there albeit with some improvements more recently. Being able to get a bus from Dublin to Galway in 2.5 hours made the air route unnecessary. Noel Dempsey cut the routes at the time, not Leo.
    Kerry and Donegal are not connected by motorway so still retained the PSO. The flight still offers good advantage over the rail link which takes nearly 4 hours.


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    #80
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,675 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    LiamaDelta wrote: »
    Kerry and Donegal are not connected by motorway so still retained the PSO. The flight still offers good advantage over the rail link which takes nearly 4 hours.

    There's a hell of a lot more motorway on the route from Dublin to Kerry than to Donegal.


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    #81
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    Emerald signalling to EI they may be in a position to operate EIR from Q3.


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    #82
    California Dreamer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    Emerald signalling to EI they may be in a position to operate EIR from Q3.

    Source?


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    #83
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    California Dreamer wrote: »
    Source?

    Hang on I'll give you their number. :pac:


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    #84
    California Dreamer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    Hang on I'll give you their number. :pac:

    Yeh cheers for that. So we are just suppose to take your word for it without providing any back up to that claim. 480 people looking for jobs today, be nice if they didnt have to listen or read chinese whispers!


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    #85
    Deatr
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭Deatr


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    Emerald signalling to EI they may be in a position to operate EIR from Q3.

    Be great for the guys from STK if they were able to get going earlier than planned.


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    #86
    cson
    Registered Users Posts: 14,417 ✭✭✭✭cson


    LiamaDelta wrote: »
    The motorway was the main reason, the railway has always been there albeit with some improvements more recently. Being able to get a bus from Dublin to Galway in 2.5 hours made the air route unnecessary. Noel Dempsey cut the routes at the time, not Leo.
    Kerry and Donegal are not connected by motorway so still retained the PSO. The flight still offers good advantage over the rail link which takes nearly 4 hours.

    Plus Carnmore isn't exactly convenient to get into the City from either!


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    #87
    embraer170
    Registered Users Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭embraer170


    Masala wrote: »
    ...... AND they only lasted 6 months on the route when the won the PSO the last time.

    Walked away when they realised that they hadn't a clue about running a PSO contract and the obligations it brings. And they left Kerry Airport high and dry with NO Dublin service for over a year....

    Are you sure it was over a year? I don't remember much of how long it took but that really surprises me.


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    #88
    basill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭basill


    California Dreamer wrote: »
    Yeh cheers for that. So we are just suppose to take your word for it without providing any back up to that claim. 480 people looking for jobs today, be nice if they didnt have to listen or read chinese whispers!


    Has Emerald given an undertaking to transfer across some or all of the Stobart staff?


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    #89
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    California Dreamer wrote: »
    Yeh cheers for that. So we are just suppose to take your word for it without providing any back up to that claim. 480 people looking for jobs today, be nice if they didnt have to listen or read chinese whispers!

    As above I'm not aware Emerald are guaranteeing any such opportunity’s, one would hope skilled professionals suited to the role will be selected. There are a lot of people in the market at this time.

    RTÉ Now also referring to the news from Emerald here; https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0614/1227952-troubled-aviation-sector/

    FYI, I don't come on here to post fairy stories, so I'm not sure what the attitude is all about in that post.


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    #90
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,737 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Deatr wrote: »
    Be great for the guys from STK if they were able to get going earlier than planned.
    basill wrote: »
    Has Emerald given an undertaking to transfer across some or all of the Stobart staff?

    While a lifeline to the 480 Stobart staff would be a positive thing there is the risk/fear that a predatory interloper could take advantage and impose onerous conditions on staff still reeling from the shock.

    Good for the customer in the immediate term. But no great longterm for anyone.


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    #91
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    California Dreamer wrote: »
    Yeh cheers for that. So we are just suppose to take your word for it without providing any back up to that claim. 480 people looking for jobs today, be nice if they didnt have to listen or read chinese whispers!

    I don't think people are using this forum as a jobs board.


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