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EA Requesting an Inappropriate Level of Information

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    #32
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,186 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Reversal wrote: »
    Did you actually read the OP? You also MUST provide your own personal bank statements showing exactly how much savings you have, proof of HTB amount and proof of any cash gifts.

    They must not have redacted figures.

    You must provide proof of funds, they list the information that may include depending on the way you are financing the purchase, mortgage, cash, FTB grant etc. Why would they consider your application if you cannot afford, and show proof you can afford the property?. If you are a time waster, or have a problem with providing proof, just move on.


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    #33
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,819 ✭✭✭Alkers


    For a new build with a fixed price it's not s big deal really, obviously would be a no go for a potential bidding war!


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    #34
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    Report to Data Commissioner.

    +1

    I'd have absolutely no doubt the level of information they're looking for is excessive certainly at the stage they're looking for it.

    I don't see any way it aligns with purpose limitation and data minimisation.


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    #35
    Reversal
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭Reversal


    Dav010 wrote: »
    You must provide proof of funds, they list the information that may include depending on the way you are financing the purchase, mortgage, cash, FTB grant etc. Why would they consider your application if you cannot afford, and show proof you can afford the property?. If you are a time waster, or have a problem with providing proof, just move on.

    Jesus you couldn't be missing the point more. If I needed to buy and hadn't already ruled this place out, and didn't have any other options I probably would end up handing the information over, because what other choice do you have.

    But that doesn't change the fact that it is wrong, and I certainly do believe this information could be used to the advantage of the the developer settings a floor on prices in the next phase.


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Yes, I am dismissive of your suggestion that your mortgage approval forms part of consideration on next phase prices.

    Do you think any seller considers mortgage approval levels when selling their house? Or do they consider what similar properties sell for and demand?

    Of course it does. They get data about the earnings and deposits out there.


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    #37
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    Alkers wrote: »
    For a new build with a fixed price it's not s big deal really, obviously would be a no go for a potential bidding war!

    Estate agents handle new builds and second hand sales. You might provide this info now but pull out or miss out and then end up dealing with the same agent for a second hand sale in a bidding situation.

    There are entire industries built on customer relation management tracking this kind of info and even more trivial stuff. If you don’t think this information is extremely valuable and sensitive, you’re naive or haven’t been paying attention.


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    #38
    Busi_Girl08
    Registered Users Posts: 17,827 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    I'd wonder how many over-eager buyers jumped the gun and sent in their information already without seeking advice first :(


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    #39
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,186 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Busi_Girl08 wrote: »
    I'd wonder how many over-eager buyers jumped the gun and sent in their information already without seeking advice first :(

    Doubt you’ll have to wait long to find that out.


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    You know what, I read the op and I thought to myself "there's no way someone will agree with this", and low and behold, there is. It's like Boards just cannot agree on one thing, no matter how ridiculous the topic.

    At the end of the day, this is for a viewing, A VIEWING! Not an offer, not sale agreed, a simple viewing. And I really pity the people with their heads in the clouds thinking this won't be used to up the prices. Unfortunately, there will have been buyers who've sent all the docs in as they are in complete desperation to buy. But they'll find out the hard way when the price goes POA with 10k added on.


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    #41
    ec18
    Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭ec18


    I would ask them you their data controller is and the associated storage policy they have in accordance with GDPR. And report to DPC, real estate agent body etc


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    #42
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Reversal wrote: »
    Jesus you couldn't be missing the point more. If I needed to buy and hadn't already ruled this place out, and didn't have any other options I probably would end up handing the information over, because what other choice do you have.

    But that doesn't change the fact that it is wrong, and I certainly do believe this information could be used to the advantage of the the developer settings a floor on prices in the next phase.

    Just because you believe it possible they are doing this doesn't make it reality. I worked on a project that gets photos of people and stores it for identification. A good friend of mine told me how the gardai had access to these photos and connected to community CCTV to track people. I explained how it was not possible and the gardai can't access one image let alone the entire amount. Wouldn't believe me. You sound like him.

    GDPR allows for gathering of data if relevant and this is relevant. They just cannot share it or keep it indefinitely. No laws even vaguely been broken here. People really do make up their own fears


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    #43
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    GDPR allows for gathering of data if relevant and this is relevant.

    Not pre-viewing it's not.


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Anyway, the minister for housing agrees that this practice is wrong and says he will be writing to the PRSA and IPAV with regards to it.


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    #45
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Graham wrote: »
    Not pre-viewing it's not.

    You can gather data all you like if people give it to you. GDPR is basically about what you do with it once you get it.

    Point to the legislation that says you cannot. I work with GDPR rules for a living so if I am missing something there will be national problems


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    #46
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Anyway, the minister for housing agrees that this practice is wrong and says he will be writing to the PRSA and IPAV with regards to it.

    So what? He sends them a letter and they still haven't broken any laws. Weird how people know so little about how the government works and how laws override what they say.


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    #47
    Amadan Dubh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh


    A story just published in the IT demonstrating the mania phase of the market cycle we are in. Savills claim it is due to covid restrictions but that is bull at this stage of reopening. It's tragic to see this, lemmings scurrying to the edge of the cliff.
    Savills asks house viewers for evidence of mortgage approval, savings and family gifts

    5,000 house hunters registered to view 44 homes at the Somerton scheme in Lucan

    Estate agent Savills has asked prospective home buyers to provide proof that they have funding before they are allowed to view the new homes scheme it is marketing at Somerton in Lucan.

    For potential purchasers attending the actual launch of the scheme – at which people may bid for a property – potential buyers are advised to be “as prepared as possible”. Those interested in securing a house at the launch will need to provide a €10,000 deposit via EFT to Savills on the day, full proof of funds or mortgage approval, and their solicitor details.


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    #48
    MacronvFrugals
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭MacronvFrugals


    Amadan Dubh wrote: »
    A story just published in the IT demonstrating the mania phase of the market cycle we are in. Savills claim it is due to covid restrictions but that is bull at this stage of reopening. It's tragic to see this, lemmings scurrying to the edge of the cliff.

    Darragh O Brien responded:


    https://twitter.com/DarraghOBrienTD/status/1404459482613260294?s=20


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    #49
    RotaryPhone
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭RotaryPhone


    We're certainly not comfortable with providing this level of personal information to an estate agent just to view a property. Especially over email where we have zero knowledge on how or where that data will be stored. Most estate agents we've dealt with so far have been happy for us to provide an AIP letter with all PII redacted, including the $ amount.

    Truly surprised how dismissive some people are being about this.


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    #50
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,868 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Yet people have also complained on this thread about bids from buyers who didn't have the required funding in place.....


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    #51
    hi!
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭hi!


    RotaryPhone wrote: »
    We're certainly not comfortable with providing this level of personal information to an estate agent just to view a property. Especially over email where we have zero knowledge on how or where that data will be stored. Most estate agents we've dealt with so far have been happy for us to provide an AIP letter with all PII redacted, including the $ amount.

    Truly surprised how dismissive some people are being about this.

    It’s truly shocking. Asking for bank statements with nothing redacted just to VIEW a show house is madness


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    #52
    hi!
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭hi!


    RotaryPhone wrote: »
    We're certainly not comfortable with providing this level of personal information to an estate agent just to view a property. Especially over email where we have zero knowledge on how or where that data will be stored. Most estate agents we've dealt with so far have been happy for us to provide an AIP letter with all PII redacted, including the $ amount.

    Truly surprised how dismissive some people are being about this.

    It’s truly shocking. Asking for bank statements with nothing redacted just to VIEW a show house is madness


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    #53
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,186 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    hi! wrote: »
    It’s truly shocking. Asking for bank statements with nothing redacted just to VIEW a show house is madness

    If the launch the op is referring to is the one in the news today where 5000 registered interest in 44 houses, I completely understand why the EA is looking for those details. Chances are, those 44 houses will sell extremely quickly, so the info is requested from those who are effectively willing to pay the deposit at the viewing to secure the house. With that amount of interest, they don’t give a damn about a letter from D O’Brien, the DPC or any disgruntled viewer, and they will not care in the slightest what level of mortgage approval people have when selling the next 44. 5000 for 44 houses, wow.


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Just because you believe it possible they are doing this doesn't make it reality. I worked on a project that gets photos of people and stores it for identification. A good friend of mine told me how the gardai had access to these photos and connected to community CCTV to track people. I explained how it was not possible and the gardai can't access one image let alone the entire amount. Wouldn't believe me. You sound like him.

    GDPR allows for gathering of data if relevant and this is relevant. They just cannot share it or keep it indefinitely. No laws even vaguely been broken here. People really do make up their own fears

    The GDPR says that data can only be held for as long as needed.

    The day, or arguably the hour, after the viewing they should delete all that data.

    Of course they don't really need the information to begin with so its hard to gauge when they should get rid of it, I don't think that that's a way around GDPR though. "We never needed this information so how can GDPR apply".

    It's hard to believe that anybody is defending this, people will defend anything.


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    #55
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You can gather data all you like if people give it to you. GDPR is basically about what you do with it once you get it.

    Sorry Ray, it's pretty clear you misunderstand the data protection legislation.
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    So what? He sends them a letter and they still haven't broken any laws.

    Apart from those covering data protection?


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dav010 wrote: »
    If the launch the op is referring to is the one in the news today where 5000 registered interest in 44 houses, I completely understand why the EA is looking for those details. Chances are, those 44 houses will sell extremely quickly, so the info is requested from those who are effectively willing to pay the deposit at the viewing to secure the house. With that amount of interest, they don’t give a damn about a letter from D O’Brien, the DPC or any disgruntled viewer, and they will not care in the slightest what level of mortgage approval people have when selling the next 44. 5000 for 44 houses, wow.

    Thats just an argument to power. They have to power to do this so they do it. Theres no morality, just naked raw market power.

    As for not caring about the DPC, if they are violation, then shut them down. The DPC is not fit for purpose if it can't do that or issue a massive fine.


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    #57
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    fvp4 wrote: »
    The DPC is not fit for purpose if it can't do that or issue a massive fine.

    The DPC can issue a massive fine. It's rarely necessary as an appropriately worded letter from them generally results in a very quick winding in of the neck.

    A few EAs appear to have got over excited when COVID restrictions prevented viewings other than in very limited circumstances. I don't expect it to last.


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I cant believe the amount of people who cant believe the amount of people who dont think this is a big deal

    Tinfoil hats lads


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Graham wrote: »
    The DPC can issue a massive fine. It's rarely necessary as an appropriately worded letter from them generally results in a very quick winding in of the neck.

    A few EAs appear to have got over excited when COVID restrictions prevented viewings other than in very limited circumstances. I don't expect it to last.

    A massive fine to discourage the others might be useful here.


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I cant believe the amount of people who cant believe the amount of people who dont think this is a big deal

    Tinfoil hats lads

    Three double negatives there and I get lost after two.


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    #61
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Graham wrote: »
    The DPC can issue a massive fine. It's rarely necessary as an appropriately worded letter from them generally results in a very quick winding in of the neck.

    A few EAs appear to have got over excited when COVID restrictions prevented viewings other than in very limited circumstances. I don't expect it to last.

    You're very trusting.

    DPC will do nuthin.

    EAs will still be asking what your budget is for the foreseeable future.


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